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“I love Darth Editous and I’m not ashamed to admit it.” ~ADigitalMan
Info: Original Trilogy in HD screening this November!! — Page 2
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Originally posted by: lordjedi
It's not analoguos at all. If NASA really wanted what was on those tapes, they could get it. There are companies in existence today that can read all tapes of backup tapes, even dating back 20 or 30 years. If they really wanted to spend the money, they could contract it out to a company to have all the media cataloged and labeled properly. And besides all that, I'm sure they've got most of the information on servers spread throughout the agency. No one I know makes backups and then deletes the original data (except maybe LFL
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It's not analoguos at all. If NASA really wanted what was on those tapes, they could get it. There are companies in existence today that can read all tapes of backup tapes, even dating back 20 or 30 years. If they really wanted to spend the money, they could contract it out to a company to have all the media cataloged and labeled properly. And besides all that, I'm sure they've got most of the information on servers spread throughout the agency. No one I know makes backups and then deletes the original data (except maybe LFL
) Well no they couldn't actually. Australia also has archives of astronomy data that no known machine exists to read, and they are desperate to find a solution. My favourite are these huge flat magnetic sheets about 2 foot wide and and 3 foot long. They are being kept, but there is little hope that they will ever be able to be read again.
Whippersnappers may not realise how weird and primitive the early days of computing were. Companies developed and built their own storage solutions, there were really no standards to speak of at all. It wasn't unusual for a computer company to only make one or two of a particular device for a given application.
When that equipment was either destroyed, lost or ceased to function, if the data had not already been transferred then it became less likely with each passing year that it ever could. As the original companies that made the equipment ceased to exist and the people died off that created them, then it became impossible.
Go back 30 years and there is not too much of a problem, standards had come into being - go back 50 years and you are pretty much stuffed unless you were dealing with IBM. A lot of it is not even something people would recognise as storage media to look at.
Unlike consumer gear that was mass produced, the devices just literally no longer exist. For mass produced stuff you can usually find a player *somewhere*, it is easy enough to still find a betamax VCR, or an elcasette player, a VHD or ced player, a reel to reel VTR etc. simply because they made a lot of them. When a company only made two items which no longer exist and went out of business 50 years ago and all the techs are now dead - it gets a bit harder.
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These old computer systems are more difficult in a way - you have a big magnetic sheet, you have no idea how the information is even physically stored, let alone what algorithm is used to store it. You don't even know what direction it is to be read in, what is data and what is flags, what encoding method (it predates EBCDIC and ASCII so even if you get the numbers off it, and work out which number actually represent the data - only then are you at the rosetta stone stage). Plus a lot of 50s scientific data was also encrypted on top of that because of the rampant paranoia at the time.
It makes an interesting challenge, tapes are easier as at least you know the direction and that the data is linear.
It is probably not impossible, but the CSIRO has been at it for nearly 10 years and haven't been able to get any data off them.
So there is a valid argument that stuff that is directly human readable/viewable is safer in the long long run as it removes the problem of having to have a device to read the data as you have it built in.
Of course the upside with digital is you can make a perfect copy, and if dilligent transfer it to newer media as it comes along, like the X0 project transferring laserdisc onto DVD - from that point onwards it could be pushed onto tape, HD-DVD, holographic storage etc. But if that wasn't done, would there be any laserdisc players still operating in 300 years time? If a digital file is released into the public domain then it is likely to still be around after a long period of time and if a digital copy of a digital original will be the same as the day it was struck. This is the first time in history that such a thing is possible.
Film has its own problems, countless important films have been lost completely (or partially) due to lack of interest by the studios themselves, it is easily damaged and degrades over time.
Last century Disney re-used most of their cels so the original artwork was literally washed away.
Lucas has supposedly cut up his original negs, making the OT non existent in its original theatrical form as far as a complete negative goes.
Companies cannot be counted on to maintain archives, the moment they lose commercial interest in a work, it is likely to be dumped.
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Originally posted by: Laserman
Of course the upside with digital is you can make a perfect copy, and if dilligent transfer it to newer media as it comes along, like the X0 project transferring laserdisc onto DVD - from that point onwards it could be pushed onto tape, HD-DVD, holographic storage etc. But if that wasn't done, would there be any laserdisc players still operating in 300 years time? If a digital file is released into the public domain then it is likely to still be around after a long period of time and if a digital copy of a digital original will be the same as the day it was struck. This is the first time in history that such a thing is possible.
Yes, you can make a perfect copy. It is possible.Of course the upside with digital is you can make a perfect copy, and if dilligent transfer it to newer media as it comes along, like the X0 project transferring laserdisc onto DVD - from that point onwards it could be pushed onto tape, HD-DVD, holographic storage etc. But if that wasn't done, would there be any laserdisc players still operating in 300 years time? If a digital file is released into the public domain then it is likely to still be around after a long period of time and if a digital copy of a digital original will be the same as the day it was struck. This is the first time in history that such a thing is possible.
Too often, I'm afraid, the weakest link in a PIF chain assumes it will happen automagically and doesn't take any action to enforce it.
My oh my, I sure do hope Zion will provide file checksums for any X0 project release (as Doctor M has done) or at least post it to Usenet himself like he did his ROTS last summer. With that one I'm confident my copy is a clone of his original because of the CRC-32 hash checking built in to yEnc and RAR.
Nero's Verify function, used by some PIFers, isn't always so reliable. And I've got a real-life example to support that claim.
Regarding the thread topic, those who download November's broadcasts from the hdtv binary groups like bongloads will likely enjoy the benefits of yEnc & RAR hashes.
Now who's got a bongload of hash ?
However, in practice you must take into account the “fuckwit factor”. Just talk to Darth Mallwalker…
-Moth3r