Info: OT Bootleg DVDs — Page 53

Author: DanielB
Time: 6-Sep-2004 7:52 AM
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A price could be helpful. AU$16 3 disc set, AU$20 4 disc set including postage in Australia, AU$20 (US$14) 3-disc, AU$24 (US$17) 4-disc including postage worldwide (Paypal).

Author: Rikter
Time: 6-Sep-2004 8:48 AM
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Originally posted by: DanielB

Originally posted by: MoBiUs
Btw i can get DL discs for AU$4.50 each and if you set the book type to dvd-rom(can only do this on liteons sonys and the new nec DL) you will pretty much eliminate compatibility problems on some dvds players

Damn man, $4.50 each? I pay about $1.20/DVD-R (Ridata, yes I'm moving up in the world, before it was Ritek, now I've decided to try Ridata - yes it's the same thing: here) including paper sleeves and postage,

Hey Rik, what media do you use?

No dude - he CLAIMS to get DUAL LAYER DVD's for $4.50 AUS in is post! that's like $2 US - The cheapest Dual Layer DVD I'v found is $10 a disc NOT including shipping!

- I use Ritek Ridata Media also

Let's not forget to remind everyone that they can download them from ME for FREE HERE!!

Either that or I can get ya either of the 5 disc sets - So you can get either the Anamorphic Set or the TR47 Set with the "BLACK DEFINITIVE" single DVD keepcase as pictured here for only $25 SHIPPED anywhere in the world (some restrictions apply)

It's your choice........
YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PAY FOR THESE

You can CHOOSE to get them from me or many others on DVDr - Remember that they are also available for FREE yes FREE if you want to download them from my torrents - I'm not trying to scam or rip anyone off.

“My skill are no longer as Mad as the once were” RiK

Author: DanielB
Time: 6-Sep-2004 10:08 AM
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Yeah, it's good stuff. You can also download them http://www.qtm.com.ar/torrents/104.htm. Not that I know what version is there; but hey it lifts the bandwidth from Rik

And come on Rik I thought we were all doing AirMail, not Shipping...

and what do you mean "5 disc" are you counting your CD as well in that count? (When's Soulflare gunna give us the ESB cover so I chuck it on the my covers cd)

It's too bad I don't have a good printer. You may as well just get it done commercially though, self-printing is pretty expensive. At least you can have 4 separate covers (and if posting that suddenly the postal charge jumps from envelope to parcel). Though that's a good offer Rik, especially if people are going to go through several bootlegs - they just need one cover for each!

Author: MeBeJedi
Time: 6-Sep-2004 11:10 AM
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Rikter! You're back!

"Single or Dual Layer mebejedi?"

Single. I don't have the funds to get a dual-layer burner yet. I still have the master files, though, so a future DL version is possible.

In fact, if I can get my MPEG to be 100 megs smaller, I can add my 5.1 soundtrack as well (not a big deal, really, but I am re-encoding from an average of 3,000,000 to 2,995,000 bits, just to see if it's enough.

) PCM, 5.1 (at 480 kbps), and the commentary track. Not too shabby, eh?

"I posted your other stuff off today too"

Cool! After this little experiment is done (it takes 18-20 hours), I'll send my current version to you and Rik.

MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.

MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.

JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.

Author: MeBeJedi
Time: 7-Sep-2004 7:41 PM
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Update:

Good news: I was (barely) able to squeeze in the 5.1 soundtrack.

Bad news: I created my MPEG with the wrong brightness/contrast values. Got to do it again.

MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.

MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.

JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.

Author: Laserman
Time: 7-Sep-2004 8:27 PM
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Hey mebejedi, encode it for dual layer, and then just copy the resulting vobs etc onto 2 blank DVD-r discs. Send me those and I will make and send you back a dual layer disc with it on it for your viewing pleasure!

Author: MeBeJedi
Time: 7-Sep-2004 8:41 PM
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That would SOOOOOOO totally rock, except that DVDLABPro won't let me place the layer change where I want it. It's not a huge thing, but I don't like LC's in the middle of good scenes. I will go ahead and try it, and see where it ends up.

MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.

MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.

JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.

Author: Laserman
Time: 7-Sep-2004 8:46 PM
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I'd like to know where anyone is getting dual layer media for $4.50!!!
The cheapest I can get is AUD$12 for mitsubishi DL blanks, and I only pay AUD$0.50c for Princo SL DVD-r and AUD$0.75c for ridata, so the dual layer cost seems to come from a galaxy far far away...
Please share your source of such stupendously cheap media!

Author: Laserman
Time: 7-Sep-2004 8:48 PM
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Jeez, what clucker of a dvd player are you running tha still has a layer change pause

Author: MeBeJedi
Time: 7-Sep-2004 8:52 PM
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Question: Which would be better: to re-encode at a higher bit-rate with CBR or VBR?

MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.

MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.

JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.

Author: Laserman
Time: 7-Sep-2004 10:15 PM
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Go with VBR.
Two pass variable bit rate will give a better result in theory, as you will get a higher bit rate in the scenes that really need it (pans etc.).

i.e. Say you encoded at a fixed bit rate of '7'. This would mean that static scenes would be encoded at 7 and heavily panned scenes would also be encoded at 7. Now 7 might not be enough for the pans and they end up pixellated and blocky.

With VBR a static scene might look identical at '3' and the '4' it saves on that scene could be added to the panning scene where it needs it, and the pan gets encoded at '11', and now looks sweeeet.

This is ultra simplified, but that is why VBR is usually better - The difficult scenes get a higher bitrate (less blockiness) than they could possibly get with CBR. If your software is crappy at analysis though, some static scenes may not get enough bitrare and look a little off.
Thats where the pro software is great, it allows you to set bitrates on a scene by scene basis if you are not happy with the automated process.

Author: MeBeJedi
Time: 7-Sep-2004 10:59 PM
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"and the pan gets encoded at '11', and now looks sweeeet."

Say What!?! I thought the max rate was around 10 kbps. In fact, my intro was encoded at 9 kbps, and I was getting some stuttering from my player, so I re-encoded at 8 kbps and it was fine (although I think I was using CBR). Am I missing something?

"This is ultra simplified, but that is why VBR is usually better - The difficult scenes get a higher bitrate (less blockiness) than they could possibly get with CBR. If your software is crappy at analysis though, some static scenes may not get enough bitrare and look a little off.
Thats where the pro software is great, it allows you to set bitrates on a scene by scene basis if you are not happy with the automated process."

Oh no, it makes sense. I was thinking VBR for that very reason, but I just wanted to make sure CBR didn't have some advantage I wasn't aware of. I've been so efficiency-minded about this DVD and VBR, and I wanted to make sure it was still a better process when disc-space wasn't an issue.

BTW, Vegas uses the MainConcept encoder (and I have the stand-alone version as well.) Now, as far as I know, I don't recall a "scene-by-scene" setting, but I can highlight specific sections, and presumably combine the resulting MPEGS. Not the greatest method, but certainly workable. Of course, I'd have to have a good eye for which scenes deserve what kind of bit-rate, or a way of measuring potential bit-rates from the AVI.

//sigh....there's always something more, isn't there?

(BTW, the minimum setting I can achieve with this software is 192,000 bps. I've heard that using a setting of 0 is better, but it's not something I can do with this software. Your opinion?)

(Also forgot to add - it's a good thing I'm re-encoding anyways. I forgot to add my Greedo subtititles to my last MPEG!

BTW, any idea how to get the Closed Captioning on capture? I was just curious, and thought it would be fun to add.)

MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.

MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.

JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.

Author: Laserman
Time: 8-Sep-2004 12:58 AM
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Don't worry about scene by scene settings with the software you are using.

I was just using random numbers re the bitrates, take no notice, I was just trying to get the concept across to anyone who may be reading

I would actually go with a higher minimum bitrate, even on really still scenes, if it's too low you get wierdness with film based material because of flutter on non pin registered film.
Anyhoo, it will look a lot better with the higher bitrate that dual layer allows.

I would crop the top and bottom to remove any closed captioning or subtitling, and add them into the DVD subtitles to maximise your video quality.

If you mean extract the closed caption data from line 21 of the NTSC signal, then the SCC tools package will do that.
You can get it here http://www.geocities.com/mcpoodle43/SCC_TOOLS/DOCS/SCC_TOOLS.HTML

Author: MeBeJedi
Time: 8-Sep-2004 1:02 AM
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"If you mean extract the closed caption data from line 21 of the NTSC signal"

Yeah, that's what I wanted. Thanks.

So, do you like the MainConcept encoder?

Wow, just looked at what was involved. Holy Cow!

Good thing I know how to use Graphedit (to make my 5.1 soundtrack.) I just noticed something, though:

The timecode is in SMPTE format, or hours:minutes:seconds:frames. Since Line 21 Closed Captions is an NTSC format, there are 29.97 frames per second. NTSC timecodes can be displayed in one of two slightly-different formats. In non-dropframe time base, frame counts are translated straight into SMPTE. This is the usual format for NTSC content that has no contact with a broadcast environment. For a broadcast setting, timecodes are easier to work with if you start with 30 frames per second and then subtract 3 % to get 29.97. This is called dropframe time base, and is accomplished by skipping the first two frames at the beginning of every minute for nine out of every ten minutes. Dropframe timecodes are distinguished from non-dropframe timecodes by changing the last colon into a semicolon (00:01:00;04 instead of 00:01:00:04). Note that the difference between non-dropframe and dropframe is purely in how timecodes are displayed; underneath, 29.97 frames are still passing every second. RAW2SCC uses non-dropframe time base by default. [Thanks to Dan Wilson for making this all clear to me.

If I'm not mistaken, this is discussing 23.976 fps, right?

MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.

MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.

JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.

Author: Laserman
Time: 8-Sep-2004 1:13 AM
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I prefer the cinemacraft encoder when using the PC, but I don't use the PC much for encoding, so I can't really say. We use Mainconcept mainly for the odd mpeg1 jobs.

Author: Laserman
Time: 8-Sep-2004 1:14 AM
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If you are sending me anything, I would prefer just the movie and the original PCM sound for utmost video and audio fidelity. I'd like to check it against my efforts

Author: MeBeJedi
Time: 8-Sep-2004 1:30 AM
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You want me to re-encode AGAIN?!?

I guess you're not in a hurry to get it, then?

MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.

MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.

JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.

Author: MoBiUs
Time: 8-Sep-2004 1:35 AM
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cheap dual layer media

http://www.span.com/catalog/product_info.php?currency=AUD&cPath=22_307_400&products_id=3479&language=en

Author: Rikter
Time: 8-Sep-2004 1:36 AM
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Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
You want me to re-encode AGAIN?!?

I guess you're not in a hurry to get it, then?

Man...

Take your time The VBR will be GREAT.

“My skill are no longer as Mad as the once were” RiK

Author: MeBeJedi
Time: 8-Sep-2004 1:41 AM
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Oh, believe me, I've always used VBR from the moment I got my hands on it. Point being, I was planning on sending my DVD to him (and you) with the menus, PCM, 5.1, commentary - the whole she-bang.

Now he just wants the video and PCM. More reauthoring...//sigh

MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.

MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.

JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.

Author: MeBeJedi
Time: 8-Sep-2004 1:53 AM
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I'm curious, are the DL burners capable of burning 9.4 GBs, even if the media is not (yet?)

MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.

MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.

JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.

Author: svenge
Time: 8-Sep-2004 2:33 AM
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As I recall, DVD+R9 discs have an actual capacity of ~8.5GB. Also, always have at least a rudimentary menu system on all DVDs, k?

Author: MeBeJedi
Time: 8-Sep-2004 2:45 AM
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Oops, now that I think about it, you may be right, but I though they held at least 9 GB's.

MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.

MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.

JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.

Author: Laserman
Time: 8-Sep-2004 5:14 AM
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I think most people just want the movie and the PCM audio.
The Anamorphic and tr47 sets etc exist for people that want the commentaries and heavy duty menus and so on. For listening to the commentaries and so on, they are more than adequate

Also, a 5.1 remix is always a bit trashy from a 2.0 master, for hot sound I think the SE DVD's that are coming will be the go.

To me going dual layer is all about getting the best possible picture and sound, it should be damn close to indistinguishable from the LD original.

I'm in no hurry... my own sets will take months!

But seriously, you do whatever you want re the set - it's your baby.

Cheers.
LM

Author: RATLSNAKE
Time: 8-Sep-2004 5:50 AM
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Originally posted by: Laserman
I think most people just want the movie and the PCM audio.

That's what the TR47 set is all about isn't it? lol

But seriously I agree that that creating a 5.1 track from a source that is definitely not 5.1 will never be worth the effort, and I speak from experience. I have found TR47s PCM track incorporated with Pro Logic of my sound system that "forces" it to a 5.1 experience is more than adeqaute and sounds bloody fantastic, but like Laserman said if someone really wants to make a 5.1, by all means.

In regards to using either video or audio from the upcoming releases, as a purist I have to say I don't like the idea.

Based on the reason that the picture and the sound we will be seeing and hearing from this DVD set will beat the shit out of what was seen in the cinemas around the world, as a great majority of the audo is being re-produced from original sounds, and the picture as we know has gone through the Lowrey process which leaves nothing but a few specs of film dust if you're lucky, and probably not even that. lol

Using just the LDs is a way of maintaining the moies as we originally saw them, and in some cases the LD are better than how many people saw the movies. When I was younger and the movies were aired on TV they were aired in Pan & Scan, and the colours were awful.

If anything, to some up this longer than I expected post, by using the less than perfect LD sources, when I watch both the anamorphic and TR47 versions and see the dust specs, and see the slight lack of sharpness etc at times, I'm reminded I am watching the Star Wars films as they were originally made, where this is not sign of 1990s and onwards "digital" technology.

Cheers

RATLSNAKE