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Info: OT Bootleg DVDs — Page 33

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Originally posted by: Laserman
That is exactly what I intend to do - make a de-specialed special edition. Depending on how whacked out the SE DVD's turn out to be.
With the gear and expertise we have, it should be possible to integrate the LD footage back in and colour grade it to fit without a really noticable change. The obvious way to do this is to insert footage at cut points, so that although you may end up inserting a little more footage than is required, it comes in and out at a cut point so is not as noticable.
I am hoping that the audio mix on the SE will be a lot better, in which case I will be keeping it and only adding/removing audio as required.

I am also doing an 'archival' version of the LD's, which will be pretty much just a straight copy with a mild colour grade at the highest possible quality, (with the missing lei footage) with no extras, no additional audio tracks etc. Just the movies at the highest bitrate possible. Am Also toying with doing a WMV9 version for PC playback, as the quality would be better, and there are some WMV9 players coming onto the home player market as well.
Wow, Laserman. That sounds amazing. It would be the perfect way to preserve the original trilogy. How long would it take to accomplish a project like that?

And even though I'm super happy with the anamorphic set I just got (thanks again Rikter!) I was wondering if you would make yours available to fans as well (or if you need any help)?
The original Star Wars trilogy: Our cultural history deserves to be preserved and should be available to the public like all great works of art!
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Yes, yes.

Perhaps uploading it to a torrent site would work.

Or you could use conventional selling DVDs.


Heck, just print out the DVD covers, make a crappy box, and call it the DVD we've all been waiting for!

Good luck to you, Laserman. I'd download that in a second!

My stance on revising fan edits.

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Laserman, be sure to at least put a menu w/ scene selections on your "archival" straight copy. I'm all for maximum bit-rate (hopefully w/ PCM 2.0 audio) but a lack of menu is the only thing I don't like about the non-anamorphic version.
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I am sure I will be able to find room for a menu
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Originally posted by: Laserman
I am sure I will be able to find room for a menu


If there is anything that I can do too help in this adventure LET ME KNOW

And on the DVD creation tip....

- I have a collection of Original Star Wars Trailers - WAY more than is on the Extras disc - I've been toying with the idea of MAYBE making a Original Trilogy Trailers DVD......

It would be short BUT it would have all the know trailers (we'll all the trailers i've found on the net + the DVD's we've all created )

Word to all the true visionaries...

Rich

“My skill are no longer as Mad as the once were” RiK

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Originally posted by: Rikter
Originally posted by: Laserman
I am sure I will be able to find room for a menu


- I have a collection of Original Star Wars Trailers - WAY more than is on the Extras disc - I've been toying with the idea of MAYBE making a Original Trilogy Trailers DVD......

It would be short BUT it would have all the know trailers (we'll all the trailers i've found on the net + the DVD's we've all created )

Rich


There's already a VCD of this and it's VERY comprehensive. True...the quality is questionable...but...just saying. Might be a good "checklist" for you.

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An OT rarities disc would be cool, with as much of the 'other' stuff as is available on a dvd.

BTW is there a better quality version of 'troops' than the 27MB quicktime?

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Originally posted by: Laserman
BTW is there a better quality version of 'troops' than the 27MB quicktime?

An issue of Total Movie magazine (first issue, I believe - it has Liz Hurley on the cover) came with a DVD that featured Troops. They pop up on ebay frequently.

Greedo shoots first? Not in my DVD player.
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Originally posted by: Laserman
An OT rarities disc would be cool, with as much of the 'other' stuff as is available on a dvd.

BTW is there a better quality version of 'troops' than the 27MB quicktime?


Like Obi-Wan Spicoli said there is that DVD - WHICH I just found again! (It's been MIA for about 6 months - darn moves)

BUT

There are actually TWO versions of the FILM!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHHHA

We'll the ORIGINAL version that was first found on the internet for free download from theforce.net - THIS version actually had the BAD BOYS song from cops as the intro music. Removed for copyright reasons....

The DVD from Total movie has what could be called a Special Edition - New intro music, audio remix and better CG.

I'll see if it will copy later tonight

Word

RiK



“My skill are no longer as Mad as the once were” RiK

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Wow, that would be cool. If you could divx it, I will seed it as a torrent (Got a nice fat pipe here)
If you need the software to do it, PM me.
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Laserman,

You seem to be the most knowledgeable here with the best equipment available. Could you give some kind of a rundown on the hardware and software you would use?

I have a strange problem. Others I have talked to have the same. Whenever we capture using S-Video cables, we get dot crawl. It appears mostly in the reds but shows up in other colors as well. If you check this link and scroll down to the pictures posted by Mythos, you will see the dot crawl effect on the red planet in the background. That is the same problem I and others have. The strange thing is that this does not occur using composite cables.

Others have tried using more expensive S-Video cables designed to eliminate dot crawl, but the problem persists. I think the conclusion was that the y/c comb filter in the LD Player is not as good as the one in the capturing device. I've tried using a GeForce4 Ti4200 and an ADVC-100 with the same results and using several capture programs. When I made a test DVD, the dot crawl was a lot less noticeable on the TV, but it was still there.

There is an undot filter for Virtual Dub that eliminates the dot crawl, but I don't know if there are any adverse side effects like those of some other noise reduction filters. I did a test with the filter and compared it to a capture made using composite cables. I couldn't really tell a difference. So, I'm wondering if it would be best for me just to capture the LD's using composite cables.

I have a couple of questions relating to the torrents. Where can the extras disc torrent be found and what is on there? Is The Making of Star Wars and Empire or From Star Wars to Jedi on there or is it just the same stuff that is on The Definitive Collection LD's? I only ask because I already own The Definitive Collection LD's and was hoping to find some other extras not found in that set. IMHO, the DC LD's are extremely light on extras considering they costed $250.00 when they came out.

Thanks.

Patrick
"When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk." - Tuco from The Good, The Bad And The Ugly
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Originally posted by: Patrick R.
I have a couple of questions relating to the torrents. Where can the extras disc torrent be found and what is on there? Is The Making of Star Wars and Empire or From Star Wars to Jedi on there or is it just the same stuff that is on The Definitive Collection LD's? I only ask because I already own The Definitive Collection LD's and was hoping to find some other extras not found in that set. IMHO, the DC LD's are extremely light on extras considering they costed $250.00 when they came out.

I've seen a torrent for the fourth disc. I'll look around for it. It's the same stuff as is on the Definitive LDs.

Greedo shoots first? Not in my DVD player.
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The biggest problem you have is that S-Video suffers from dot crawl, and it is especially bad with NTSC source material at the red end of the spectrum. Composite video suffers even more, but it is still there on the SVideo output.
The other problem you have is the relatively awful capture capabilities built into gforce/radeon cards etc. The video input side has a really noisy video path, and quite often unbalanced causing dot crawl, ringing, and introducing video noise. They really are only good for tivo like duties, they are just plain awful for video mastering.

Dot crawl shows up much more when viewed on the PC simply because the PC monitor is higher rez and sharper. Some TVs also have digital comb filters to remove some of the dot crawl, so you don't see it as much on the TV, but you do lose some detail.

If you want to get really good results, you should pick up a dedicated capture card like one from Targa (Targa 2000 series for example) which have much cleaner video paths on the input side. They are quite often available cheap 2nd hand. Use a very short and reasonable quality svideo cable.

For optimum results, crack open your laserdisc player and mount some BNC connectors on the back. then run the Y and C outputs to 75ohm BNC connectors with mini coax, and use 75ohm coax cable (times 2) to your capture card (assuming you have one with coax inputs like the targas). This will give you a much better image. Ensure both cables are identical length or you will get chroma shift.

Better still, get a player with RGB out. Some european models had it on the scart output, and many industrial/broadcast models had it. You would not believe how much better the picture looks in RGB, much better colour and almost no crawl at all. Very nice.
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One other consideration, laserdiscs actually have the image stored in 'composite video' so the laserdisc player is doing the conversion to SVideo (Y/c) or to RGB. If your player does a really bad job of it, then the composite output may actually give you a better image than the SVideo output. It is totally dependant on the quality of the YC separater circuit in the unit,
This is a quote from a review of one of the few retail players with RGB out. The Sony 533D.

The RGB output does have certain advantages in NTSC in that it acts like a Y/C (S-output) might and cleans up the spurious colour side effects of the signal. Cross-colour - the colour 'rainbow' effect on areas of fine detail - and cross-luminance - the crawling colour dot move­ment on sharp vertical edges - are all suppressed in the RGB mode. On the Sony test disc Tune-Up A.V. there is a specific resolution grating in Chapter 4 to show the worst effects of cross-colour. On a conventional composite output into a non comb-filter TV the grating is invisible as it is obscured by a mass of coloured dashes. The 533D, via its RGB output, reproduces this grating perfectly, with no false colour information whatsoever. This sort of performance should be attainable with a TV containing a comb-filter, but that Tune-Up A.V. grid has been previously tried on a conven­tional player through a comb-filter NTSC TV and the suppression of the cross-colour was nowhere near as effective. Without doubt, the 533D playing NTSC discs in RGB mode produces much cleaner images than via the composite output.
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Thanks Obi-Wan Spicoli. I really hope torrents of From Star Wars to Jedi and The Making of Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back come out too.

Thanks for all of the information Laserman. I've looked up some information on Targa and really like the 2000 Pro since it has component inputs as well as serial, S-video, and composite. I wish I could buy one, but I can't afford it right now.

I'll stick to my Canopus ADVC-100 instead of the GeForce4 card I have. I like not having to worry about audio sync. The only bad thing about the Canopus is that it captures at 4:1:1 instead of 4:2:2 like the Targa can.

My LD Player is the Pioneer CLD-D703. It is a pretty good player. It has S-Video and composite video outputs and composite, digital coaxial and digital optical audio outputs. The only thing it doesn't have is AC-3, but it can be modified pretty easily. I never saw a need for that though since none of my LD's have AC-3 sound. I'm guessing by what you were saying that my LD Player's comb filter isn't as good as that of my capturing device. That does make sense.

I guess I could stick with the composite cables for now as I didn't see any noticeable quality loss. The dot crawl on happens when I capture using S-Video. If only I had more money, I would buy better equipment. I think my project will turn out pretty decent as it is. I'm not going to say it is the best, but I hope I can at least match the quality of the Anamorphic Torrents. I don't think it will be a problem once dual layered writers become practical. I'll really have to study if I plan to include the commentary track and other bells and whistles that the creator of the Anamorphic set did. If only they would make a dual layered set and use the ESB LD that isn't missing 7 seconds of Leia welding, they would be good enough for me not to even attempt doing this project.

Thanks.

Patrick

"When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk." - Tuco from The Good, The Bad And The Ugly
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"An issue of Total Movie magazine (first issue, I believe - it has Liz Hurley on the cover) came with a DVD that featured Troops. They pop up on ebay frequently."

Yes, I borrowed a copy from a friend and remastered it as a single DVD with a menu for the different scenes, as well as selecting the commentary.

I also added the original "Bad Boys" song to the intro, since the TOTAL MOVIE DVD has a rehashed version recorded by someone else.

"Others have tried using more expensive S-Video cables designed to eliminate dot crawl, but the problem persists. I think the conclusion was that the y/c comb filter in the LD Player is not as good as the one in the capturing device. I've tried using a GeForce4 Ti4200 and an ADVC-100 with the same results and using several capture programs. When I made a test DVD, the dot crawl was a lot less noticeable on the TV, but it was still there."

I found this as well. The composite picture was a tad bit better than the S-Video.

"For optimum results, crack open your laserdisc player and mount some BNC connectors on the back. then run the Y and C outputs to 75ohm BNC connectors with mini coax, and use 75ohm coax cable (times 2) to your capture card (assuming you have one with coax inputs like the targas). This will give you a much better image. Ensure both cables are identical length or you will get chroma shift."

This is something I may have to look into....

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Originally posted by: Patrick R.
Thanks Obi-Wan Spicoli. I really hope torrents of From Star Wars to Jedi and The Making of Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back come out too.
I found a torrent for the extras disc. If you want it I'll PM you the link. The Making of Star Wars and SPFX: The Empire Strikes Back are available on laserdisc, which, of course, would make for an excellent conversion. There's also a Japanese laserdisc sourced collection known as Star Wars: The Making of a Trilogy which includes both titles above plus Classic Creatures: Return of the Jedi and From Star Wars to Jedi. But they have hard coded subtitles. This collection has already made the binary rounds but I have yet to see a torrent.

Originally posted by: Patrick R.
I'll stick to my Canopus ADVC-100 instead of the GeForce4 card I have. I like not having to worry about audio sync. The only bad thing about the Canopus is that it captures at 4:1:1 instead of 4:2:2 like the Targa can.

I've been considering a capture device for a while now. One choice is the ADVC-100. How do you like yours and do you recommend it? I'm also considering a Hauppage PVR-250. Any experience there?

Scott


Greedo shoots first? Not in my DVD player.
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Originally posted by: Obi-Wan Spicoli
Originally posted by: Patrick R.
Thanks Obi-Wan Spicoli. I really hope torrents of From Star Wars to Jedi and The Making of Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back come out too.
I found a torrent for the extras disc. If you want it I'll PM you the link. The Making of Star Wars and SPFX: The Empire Strikes Back are available on laserdisc, which, of course, would make for an excellent conversion. There's also a Japanese laserdisc sourced collection known as Star Wars: The Making of a Trilogy which includes both titles above plus Classic Creatures: Return of the Jedi and From Star Wars to Jedi. But they have hard coded subtitles. This collection has already made the binary rounds but I have yet to see a torrent.

Originally posted by: Patrick R.
I'll stick to my Canopus ADVC-100 instead of the GeForce4 card I have. I like not having to worry about audio sync. The only bad thing about the Canopus is that it captures at 4:1:1 instead of 4:2:2 like the Targa can.

I've been considering a capture device for a while now. One choice is the ADVC-100. How do you like yours and do you recommend it? I'm also considering a Hauppage PVR-250. Any experience there?

Scott


Scott,

That would be great if a torrent of that stuff surfaces. As far as my ADVC-100, I am very pleased with it. It is an external DV Capture bridge that uses it's own power source. You do have to have a Firewire Card in your PC to use it. Unfortunately, it comes with no software whatsoever. However, there is a free program I use called WinDV that works great. Since I've used this card, I have had no dropped frames and no audio sync issues like I did when I used the GeForce4. The sync issues may have been caused by my built-in soundchip. I have since disabled it and installed a regular sound card. I like the ADVC-100 over the 50 and 1394 (don't need a firewire card for this one and comes with software and cheaper) because it has inputs and outputs so you can make a tape for someone without a VCR. That really is a small reason now since almost everyone seems to have DVD Players now.

You may want to consider the ADVC-300 or 500 as well. Here is a link to Video Help's capture card list.
Capture Card Lists

I have also provided links to reviews for each of the cards you asked about, but I'll start with the Targa Laserman mentioned.

Targa 2000

It sounds very good since it can capture 4:2:2. However, it is not supported by Pinnacle anymore and the last Windows OS it is known to work with is NT. Some have said they have gotten it to work with Win2K, but mileage may very. You'll notice the reviews are from 2001.



Hauppauge WinPVR-250

This cards seems to be rated pretty well. However, it appears that those with AMD processors and chipsets have trouble with it.

ADVC-100

Here is the ADVC-100. I've had no problems with mine. There was some mention that it would not work or XP would not work with some Firewire cards based on a Texas Instruments chipsets. That was a few years ago. That problem has been sorted out, so if you have a newer Firewire card, you shouldn't have an issue. My cheap Firewire card has a TI chipset and I have had no problems. The only thing to consider is that this is a DV capture device and Laserman has mentioned DV has color loss because of the compression to 4:1:1 during capture. I really haven't had any color problems except when I had one of the jumpers set to capture at IRE 0 (Pal) instead of IRE 7.5 (NTSC). Since I switched it to 7.5, I've had much better colors. The last thing I will say is that this device works with both PC's and Mac's which a lot of products do now days.

Thanks.

Patrick
"When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk." - Tuco from The Good, The Bad And The Ugly
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Oops double post. Any way to delete this entry?

Patrick
"When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk." - Tuco from The Good, The Bad And The Ugly
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Fyi...

As I have said before...

I have The making of SW and Empire on DVD-R mastered from the laserdisc...and Classic Creatures on DVD from the VHS. Looks as good as they can get...plus I'd rather NOT have japanese subtitles on them. Kinda ruins any advancement in picture...or sound for that matter. But that shouldn't be of too much concern since they're all in mono.
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Patrick,

Thanks for the info! My primary interest in the ADVC-100, believe it or not, isn't converting Star Wars laserdiscs, but rather converting some old VHS tapes to DV. From what I've heard this is an excellent device for that. However, I would also like an easy to use PVR, and that's where the Hauppage comes in. I may just get both eventually.

digitalfreaknyc,

Are you making those available?
Greedo shoots first? Not in my DVD player.
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Not to get off topic, but would anyone be interested in converting some non SW VHS tapes to DVD for me? I am interested in custom chapter stops and a menu. Thats about it. Laserman, I know you and a few others have some good equipment for that. Of course I would pay a fee for your services. If anyone is interested, PM me or email me. My address is listed.

By the way Rikter, glad I could help you with that DVD. Enjoy!

Mike