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Info: Laserdisc viewing and capturing best current info?

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 (Edited)

I have an extensive LD collection that I watch frequently, there is a lot of info here about capturing and editing so I am wondering what is the current best way to do this? And actually I am more interested in real time viewing than capturing, would any of the methods here work? Is this done in hardware with a capture card with a high end comb filter or done with dscaler or other software?

Currently I go LD Player -> RCD DRC8335 (comb filter) -> Algolith Mosquito (Noise Reduction) -> DVDO VP50 (deinterlacing / upscaling) -> TV

I like to play around and suspect I can get good results from a PC, just not sure where to start?

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For real-time viewing, you’re probably better off with the external hardware processors you are currently using. (You don’t say which LD player you have - this is the most important part of the chain!)

However, there are some improvements that you can do with a capture and post-processing that are not possible in real-time, eg:

  • multiple capture average/median, to remove dot crawl, random noise and dropouts without damaging detail
  • use a high quality motion compensated deinterlacer (too slow in software for real-time viewing)
  • even better, for film-based content with 3:2 pulldown you can carry out IVTC to get a true 24p output (although some hardware processors can detect a pulldown pattern and do this in realtime, maybe the VP50 does?)

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Moth3r said:

For real-time viewing, you’re probably better off with the external hardware processors you are currently using. (You don’t say which LD player you have - this is the most important part of the chain!)

However, there are some improvements that you can do with a capture and post-processing that are not possible in real-time, eg:

  • multiple capture average/median, to remove dot crawl, random noise and dropouts without damaging detail
  • use a high quality motion compensated deinterlacer (too slow in software for real-time viewing)
  • even better, for film-based content with 3:2 pulldown you can carry out IVTC to get a true 24p output (although some hardware processors can detect a pulldown pattern and do this in realtime, maybe the VP50 does?)

I have a couple of different players but mainly I use a CLD-97 w/ AC3 mod and a Runco LJRII. I just added a Darbee DVP5000s to end of the chain so it looks very good but I still thought a PC would have more power and be able to do good things. Thanks for the reply BTW.

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If you don’t mind lots-of-reading research, AntcuFaalb delves into hardware and technical solutions for top quality laserdisc capturing. Things one may never consider is what he seeks to correct in the capture chain (and they all add up).

Probably the best way is a very narrow Google search of OriginalTrilogy’s AntcuFaalb posts containing the word laserdisc. Copy this line into Google’s text-search area:

site:http://originaltrilogy.com/user/AntcuFaalb/id/10643 laserdisc

From those results, you can preview his postings and then get back to their original threads for context.

Enjoy! 😃

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Spaced Ranger said:

If you don’t mind lots-of-reading research, AntcuFaalb delves into hardware and technical solutions for top quality laserdisc capturing. Things one may never consider is what he seeks to correct in the capture chain (and they all add up).

Probably the best way is a very narrow Google search of OriginalTrilogy’s AntcuFaalb posts containing the word laserdisc. Copy this line into Google’s text-search area:

site:http://originaltrilogy.com/user/AntcuFaalb/id/10643 laserdisc

From those results, you can preview his postings and then get back to their original threads for context.

Enjoy! 😃

Ok it took a while but I did read a lot of those posts, very interesting info. What I still cannot seem to figure out is what is the go to card for LD? For now I have ordered an ATI TV Wonder HD 750 but I am not sure this is the best option after all of my reading. What card should I be looking for? I have read about Holo3Dgraph but cannot seem to find any for sale?

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 (Edited)

He’s constantly looking into newer & more complete solutions, and has updated his approach/equipment several times. For example,

on external comb filters:

http://originaltrilogy.com/user/AntcuFaalb/id/10643/page/1
With that being said, the most important factor in getting a good LD picture is the player you’re using. … The s-video output on all LD players therefore uses a builtin (old and no longer top performing) comb filter IC. 99.9% of the time you’ll get better results with composite and an external comb filter …

on capture cards:

http://originaltrilogy.com/user/AntcuFaalb/id/10643/page/8
Report: The 550’s 3DCF is entirely configurable unlike the 750. I’m getting accustomed to configuring it now.

on low-pass filtering (and check out that comparison!):

http://originaltrilogy.com/user/AntcuFaalb/id/10643/page/14
Here’s a sample of the result of low pass filtering THX 1138’s chroma to 843.75KHz (that’s 1.6875MHz together which is basically DV’s 4:1:1). This isn’t what LD is capable of (>1.3MHz for I and Q), but it’s double S-VHS and the rainbows disappear, so it’s good enough for me!
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/125913
Note: No 3D comb filter was used here. This is 100% spatial.

It’s hard to keep up! 😃 Maybe if AntcuFaalb could chime-in with some his best-so-far recommendations?

AntcuFaalb,
AntcuFaalb,
AntcuFaalb.
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Well I have been experimenting for a couple of days with a lowly Win TV Go card and I am really pretty impressed.

I am using the temporal comb, sharpness, temporal and adaptive noise reduction filters all at default settings and I am getting very good results. I have the ATI 750 arriving today that I am going to try also…

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hi, just joined.

actually I was the one who recommended antcu the analog devices adv7800 evaluation board to use it as the external comb filter. The ADV7800 chip so far is the best comb filter in the market and I doubt that there will ever be a newer/better one from any hw manufacturer.

I am not well knowledge about the capture part but I can talk about a thing or two on the real time viewing.

I own or have owned pretty much all of the well known video processors including PMS Crystalio II (had 2 at one point), DVDO VP30/50, Algolith Dragonfly, Algolith Mosquito HDMI (still have two), Faroudja NRS, Lumagen HDQ. I currently own the following,

-Algolith Mosquito HDMI
-Lumagen Radiance 2144
-Lumagen Radiance Pro 4449

I own or have owned all of the highly regarded LD players. I won’t list all but only the ones I currently own.

-Pioneer DVL-919 (US version)
-Pioneer DVL-919E (EU version Pal/NTSC)
-Pioneer LD-S1
-Pioneer LD-S2
-Pioneer HLD-X9
-Pioneer HLD-X0
-McIntosh MLD-7020 (Pioneer CLD-97 Clone with factory RF out)
-Theta Voyager V2 (Silver)
-Theta Voyager V2 (Black with Progressive Scan Component upgrade)

If cost is no object below is the best of the best in LD playback, look no further!

Pioneer HLD-X0 -> Lumagen Radiance 2144 (Comb filter + deinterlacing =480p output) -> Algolith Mosquito HDMI (Dynamic Gaussian Filter for noise removal)-> Lumagen Radiance Pro 4449 (Color calibration + Darbe + Geometry = Scaling up to 4K)

Above is a several decathousand setup, let’s look at more conservative ones.

Pioneer CLD-97 and LD-S2(not! HLD-X9) are the closest to the HLD-X0. They have very low chroma noise and very stable video. For the shipping cost of HLD-X0(from Japan), you can perhaps buy 3x CLD-97s(or 4).

For video processing, I will stick with Lumagen gear. The no ringing scaling of Lumagen is really the only suitable processing for its NTSC video. DVDO sucks, Faroudja is OK, Algolith is OK. Only Crystalio II rivals but that is hard to find. Lumagen Radiance 2124 and 2144 are the only models with the good ADV7800 chip. All other Lumagen use 2D comb filters and not good. The very old HDQ model has the very good TI TVP5160 chip for its 3D comb filter. It is a rare machine but very cost effective comparing to 2124 and 2144.

At one point, I had both Crystalio II Pro VPS-3800 and Lumagen Radiance 2144 in my system. ADV chip in Lumagen is excellent with dot crawl(absolutely none) but noticeably softer than TVP chip in Crystalio II (some dot crawl in motion). Crystalio II uses Gennum VXP for upscaling which is second to Lumagen scaling. Let’s make a list:

-Lumagen HDQ $200-500
-Crystalio II $1000-1500
-Lumagen Radiance 2124/44 $2500-3500

If you really have to go low cost and can’t find a HDQ, Faroudja NRS would be my only alternative. These above VPs are so good, even a mediocre player like DVL-919 can look amazing through these. I see a lot of people use DVDO processors. If you have one of these, make sure to disable its scaling and use your TVs. Just set it to output 480p so it only does deinterlacing (which it does excellently). DVDO scaling will murder LD. its too harsh and aggressive.

Some fun project:

SO I bought these DVL and Theta units for a Frankenstein player. Theta Voyager is basically a DVL-919 with an upgraded power section and video opamp/output section. It’s discete components and toroidal transformers really help lower the noise floor for both sound and video. There is really not a decent PAL capable LD player in existence. I looked into CLD-d925, 2950 and D515 but the best is DVL-919E. It’s the only one with a digital TBC. So my project is to swap come boards inside a Theta unit and make it PAL capable. I still don’t expect CLD-97 type performance but with its amazing power section, I expect much lower noise than the 919. It will mostlikely be the best PAl player in existence.

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I have a Crystalio II for sale if anyone wants it, I liked it better than the HDQ for LD sources, but I was watching on a projector, so that may have been part of it.
I converted my X9 to PAL after a lot of dicking around, it was noticeably better than the 2950, but replacing the power supply components with better ones in the 2950 improved its picture quite a bit.
I still have a mosquito unit kicking around too, I really need to ebay all my LD stuff.

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poita said:

I converted my X9 to PAL after a lot of dicking around, it was noticeably better than the 2950, but replacing the power supply components with better ones in the 2950 improved its picture quite a bit.

Oh wow! That’s awesome. You should post the details (on Fanres that is). With my limited knowledge of electronics I’d believe (in fact I’m very certain) that the player would no longer play NTSC - unless you were willing to connect up one switch per modified circuit like this:

All up PAL, all down NTSC.

__Valeyard.net

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That is correct, no NTSC playback on the modified unit.

Donations welcome: paypal.me/poit
bitcoin:13QDjXjt7w7BFiQc4Q7wpRGPtYKYchnm8x
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Yep. Well done again. I certainly couldn’t do it from scratch I’m far too ignorant of electronics. If you post the details of the mod sometime though others could follow it. And they’d end up with a player that is better than anything else for PAL LDs.

__Valeyard.net

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poita said:

I converted my X9 to PAL after a lot of dicking around, it was noticeably better than the 2950, but replacing the power supply components with better ones in the 2950 improved its picture quite a bit.

You really did it? You are my hero poita! 😄
With such a “monster”, I guess how good could be a PAL laserdisc in comparison to mid-level models like 2950 and 925…

And, do you think that a “simple” Panasonic LX-HD20 (which is a Sony HIL-C2EX, very good player that could be put in fourth place after HLX-0, HLX-9 and HIL-C1) could be modified as well?

The ResolveR ultimate restoration workstation | [Fundamental Collection] thread | blog.spoRv.com | fan preservation forum: fanres.com |

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When I was in high school I had a friend who was really into that kind of stuff. I was interested in it too, but even then I knew it was never going to offer a career path sadly. You don’t need to be a genius to do it though as Louis Rossmann has proved on Youtube (all he does is diagnose and fix circuits, not modify them to do other functions). Although to do what poita did from scratch you’d need a lot of knowledge about how every aspect of the electronics involved in it worked.

It’s a shame that Pioneer and others didn’t make their high-end players NTSC & PAL compatible in the first place really.

__Valeyard.net

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poita said:

I have a Crystalio II for sale if anyone wants it, I liked it better than the HDQ for LD sources, but I was watching on a projector, so that may have been part of it.
I converted my X9 to PAL after a lot of dicking around, it was noticeably better than the 2950, but replacing the power supply components with better ones in the 2950 improved its picture quite a bit.
I still have a mosquito unit kicking around too, I really need to ebay all my LD stuff.

Do you still have the Crystalio II vps-3800 and the algolith Mosquito HDMI? Please let me know. Thank you.