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Info & Ideas: ESB and ROTJ Wishlist — Page 2

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Just watched ESB again. I must say, Yoda looks great, except for the eyes, they are too static, not always looking into the right direction, eyelids could also be slightly improved. I have noticed what bothered me the most - Yoda's ears. They shake all the time at the tips, which makes them look really unnatural.

-Also, the cockpit doors on Luke's Hoth fighter and even more on Luke's X-wing at Dagobah are wobbly/shaking like they were made of plastic. It looks cheap!

I knew I should have kept notes during the movie, now I feel I forgot all things I noticed that bugged me. Well, I'll have to watch it again!

- Imperial walkers on Hoth move very choppy, you can tell the use of stop motion technique.

- The sound the M. Falcon makes after failing to go to the light speed at the end of the movie, sounds to much like a malfunctioning car, probably intentionaly, but sounds off to me.

- Luke's jump from the carbon freezing hole is a little bit too fast.

- The 2 guards at the end of the scene where Vader leaves the bridge at the end of the movie, have those large stupid looking helmets. The could be erased. We already see a lot of personel, and I feel those over-sized helmets look horrible.

- When the general what's his name contacts Vader in his chamber via large screen, the transmission starts with a TV like static. I would change that to a clean transmission or something like that.


More to come


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Originally posted by: Joshua_Blue - Luke's jump from the carbon freezing hole is a little bit too fast.

- When the general what's his name contacts Vader in his chamber via large screen, the transmission starts with a TV like static. I would change that to a clean transmission or something like that.


But what's a proper speed for a Jedi jumping? Even Obi-Wan jumped mega fast and very high in Episode I, so I doubt there is a correct speed for jumping up.

Bearing in mind that the Star Destroyer was in an asteroid field and Vader tells them to move to a clear location for transmission, there is a plausible explanation for why there is a bit of static on connection...

Redoing the animation on the AT AT Walkers would be a massively big piece of re-animation and would probably be a lot more work than the end result would be worth. They are very big slow moving pieces of heavy equipment. I think the stop-motion animation suits them.

As for Solo's restraints before he's frozen...perhaps the Ugnaughts who crowd him actually undo them so that he's able to move his hands as the process begins...?

To be honest, there isn't much I'd change about ESB. Maybe give Yoda a little more expression but even the puppet is more expressive than the horrible CGI stuff that came after. I'd chop the redundant 'Bring my shuttle' scene as it also uses the opening shuttle landing from ROTJ...it's an unnecessary addition and also doesn't match properly. No matter what anyone says, that is not James Earl Jones' voice.

For Jedi, I'd drop the song in Jabba's palace and bring back the old one and get rid of some of the more blatant 'muppet style' runs into the camera. Again, unnecessary additions when he could have fixed the matte lines around the Rancor and the Ewoks need to be fixed in some way. Jabba could do with a bit of fixing too, but then that's the problem with using puppets over CGI...the eyes will always look a little lifeless whereas CGI eyes will be given some life if done right.
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I really like the shuttle scenes (for some reason). But yeah, I agree for the most part - ESB doesn't need much changing at all.
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Originally posted by: Owen-Lars-Kenobi
I really like the shuttle scenes (for some reason).


Go away, and never come back! Blasphemer!



Actually the only part of the shuttle scene I'd sort of keep is the shot of the shuttle flying towards the Star Destroyer and only because it still uses the same piece of music as the original, therefor keeping the flow pretty much the same.

http://www.facebook.com/DirtyWookie

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I agree, Vader in the shuttle scene doesn't sound like James Earl Jones, no way. It sound very different from the rest of Vader lines.

OK, who is to say what the right force jump speed is. I'm just saying it 'looked' a bit too fast, like Luke was being sucked up in a hose or something.
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Okay, first of all besides the basic sound and picture quality improvements not much needs to be done to ESB and ROTJ. Second, The PT should be made to fit the OT, NOT the other way around. No stupid additions to the OT just because they're in the PT. That being said here's my list.

ESB
- Restore Boba Fett's original voice, played by actor Jason Wingreen. I know thanks to Lucas f-ing around in the prequels Boba is now a clone of Jango Fett, but Temuera Morrison's voice stinks. Listen to both voices and I dare anyone to say that Morrison's performance is better than Mr. Wingreen's. Even if Boba is a clone that doesn't mean he has to sound exactly like Jango. Age, warfare, and hard living can all contribute to the change. Also, why can't Boba have a voice scrambler in his helmet just like Vader?

- On Dagobah restore Luke's original line of "you're lucky you don't taste very good." This line was funny and fit with the humor of the OT.

- Fix the lightsabers. The color on the blades of the sabers is grossly faded out and they bleed together when clashing.

- I'm with astromech, restore Vader's original line of "Bring my shuttle" and delete the shot of Vader walking towards a shuttle on Bespin.

- I like Ian McDiarmid as the Emperor but the dialog in the new Vader/Emperor scene is completely retarded now and needs to be edited to more closely fit the original lines. I've discussed this with Adywan before and I've come with a pretty good way of repairing this scene.

ROTJ
- Again fix the lightsabers. Same problem as in ESB.

- Get rid of the Harmonica Frog and the whole Jedi Rocks sequence with all the new extras and please restore Lapti Nek. Honestly both the old puppets and the new CGI characters aren't perfect but the new music is just terrible. Lapti Nek sounds much more Star Wars-esque.

- At the Sarlaac pit delete Solo's new line of "It's okay, I can see a lot better" and restore his original line of "Trust me." The new line just seems like a mouthful to say in that moment. Besides, 'trust me' is kind of Solo's slogan in the OT. It's funny and fits Solo's attitude in these commonly risky situations he finds himself in the OT.

- During the celebration sequence on Coruscant, for the 2004 DVD editions Lucas added the old Senate building and the Jedi Temple in the background. These weren't present for the 1997 Special Editions. This change seems entirely illogical to me. If I were an evil Sith Master, like Palpatine, I'd burn these buildings to the ground and not let them remain standing. The Senate was disbanded in ANH and the Jedi Temple should have been destroyed in ROTS?

- Another celebration change, I don't like the entire planet Naboo added to the sequence, but I know I'm probably in the minority on that. So at the very least delete the Gungans dancing on top of the temple and the "Weesa Free" screaming. Gungans are the worst characters added to the Star Wars saga.
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Gorilla

During the celebration sequence on Coruscant, for the 2004 DVD editions Lucas added the old Senate building and the Jedi Temple in the background. These weren't present for the 1997 Special Editions. This change seems entirely illogical to me. If I were an evil Sith Master, like Palpatine, I'd burn these buildings to the ground and not let them remain standing. The Senate was disbanded in ANH and the Jedi Temple should have been destroyed in ROTS?

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absolutely agree with this
it does mess with eu as well - i know movies trump novels/comics but i see no harm in fixing continuity if it makes sense anyway
figrin d'an and the modal nodes - best band name ever!
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Originally posted by: teharri
has anyone else noticed the lack of quality in ROTJ. If you compare ESB and ROTJ you will notice that ESB has a much better picture quality. I think it would be cool if someone could update the scene where the emperors dies. That shot just looks like a painting of a pit instead of an actual one.

Does anyone get what I am saying about ROTJ's picture quality?


Actually, the problem your seeing here is because the picture quality is too good. Originally in SW and ESB, model shots tended to be used for scenes like that, however, when they were shooting ROTJ, they happened to have a really good matte painter working in the crew, so they used him to create matte paintings for many scenes (ex. Emperor's Death, Scene When Han Looks out at the Falcon from Tyderium cockpit). During the original release, this looked great (and it looked even better on your VHS copies) because the depth of field loss was hidden by film grain, etc. However when it was cleaned up for DVD presentation, they did such a good job with the clarity that you can actually see the texture in the paint used, making the matte shots stand out.

There is a similar example to this problem in the ESB DVD release as well. During the battle of Hoth, when one of the Walkers is destroyed you see it fall forward into a cloud of snow. Originally this looked great, but now the picture quality has been fixed up enough you can see far too clearly that it is a model being dropped into artificial miniature snow.

Those are shots I'd love to see "fixed" but as to how you would fix that, I have no idea.
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Whatever they did for the Close Encounters bluray would be ideal for me. It looks great, yet maintains its "film texture" (the effects shots still look great)
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Originally posted by: Gorilla

- At the Sarlaac pit delete Solo's new line of "It's okay, I can see a lot better" and restore his original line of "Trust me." The new line just seems like a mouthful to say in that moment. Besides, 'trust me' is kind of Solo's slogan in the OT.

I thought "trust me" was his slogan in the Indiana Jones films?

Originally posted by: Joshua_Blue

- The sound the M. Falcon makes after failing to go to the light speed at the end of the movie, sounds to much like a malfunctioning car, probably intentionaly, but sounds off to me.
Definitely intentional, and for a good reason: it's funny.

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Marginaly funny to me. There a couple of great funny inserts in this movie, and I like them, but it is still an advanture SF movie, not a comedy. But it is up to the person who will be doing the edit - Adywan (I hope).
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I would like to see (hear) Threepio's line from the radio drama where he introduces the Ewoks by name.

"I believe they are called... Ewoks."

I know I’ve made some very poor decisions recently.

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The main thing that bothers me with the SE changes to Cloud City is continuity. That and the fact that in one shot, you can see the reflections of the background on the floor where you should only see reflections of Lando and Leia. Just my 2c (and token post so's I can subscribe to this thread =p).

The Hobbit: Roadshow Edition

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I dont know, I like what the SE did to Bespin. It made it seem like it was much bigger by adding windows. Also it no longer looked like a set. And the clouds match the rest of the outdoor shots we see later.
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Much more sky traffic in Cloud City after Lando advises everyone to leave the city.
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Also if you want to get a clip of James Earl Jones saying "Your Mother..." Look no further than CD set of him Reading The New Testement of the bible. He says that at least twice on the cd set You might be able to put it with his ROTJ conversation with Luke. Luke says "Come with me" as Padme also said, then Vader repies "Obi-Wan once thought as you do." Which could be changed to "Your mother once thought as you do." Which seems to fit better.
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Originally posted by: Sevb32
Also if you want to get a clip of James Earl Jones saying "Your Mother..." Look no further than CD set of him Reading The New Testement of the bible. He says that at least twice on the cd set You might be able to put it with his ROTJ conversation with Luke. Luke says "Come with me" as Padme also said, then Vader repies "Obi-Wan once thought as you do." Which could be changed to "Your mother once thought as you do." Which seems to fit better.


I dont know how I feel about this change...I would love to have the OT make some mention of her rather than the weird exchange between luke and leia on Endor. But I feel like Vader wouldnt bring up padme so lightly. I like to think that he never thinks of her and its only watching luke's torture that he officially starts to connect with anakin again. though it makes more sense in light of the prequels it seems out of character.

to each his own though...
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"Your mother once thought as you do."

I don't like this idea. It is unnecessary in my opinion. As stossmo said, some mention of her during Luke's and Leia's talk on Endor would be better. Maybe Oragana's told Lea some things about her mother, and also perhaps Lars and Beru told some things to Luke. No the truth of course, but certain things they thougt it was safe to tell.
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how would you get extra dialog between Luke and Leia?
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One way to add more dialogue is to splice it together from other productions that the actors have been part of. Finding this dialogue can be the big problem, though ...
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Originally posted by: Mielr
Originally posted by: Gorilla

- At the Sarlaac pit delete Solo's new line of "It's okay, I can see a lot better" and restore his original line of "Trust me." The new line just seems like a mouthful to say in that moment. Besides, 'trust me' is kind of Solo's slogan in the OT.

I thought "trust me" was his slogan in the Indiana Jones films?

Originally posted by: Joshua_Blue

- The sound the M. Falcon makes after failing to go to the light speed at the end of the movie, sounds to much like a malfunctioning car, probably intentionaly, but sounds off to me.
Definitely intentional, and for a good reason: it's funny.



note that in "The 'Burbs" (Also starring Carrie Fisher) when the Klopeck's furnace shorts out "sounds like they're cooking a goddamn cat over there!" it makes the same sound!

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I saw ESB again last night and noticed yet another thing:
In the Battle of Hoth, there are multiple groups of AT-AT walkers. I suggest (re)composing in additional walkers in various shots so that we can get more continuity between shots of walkers. For instance, one group of walkers can become the same group as in another shot, etc.

When Luke crash-lands in the snow, there are two AT-ATs. Luke crashes right before the second one, which is behind and to the right of the first one. I assume that it is this walker that crushes his airspeeder.
Later, the walker that Luke destroys with a grenade can not be any of these two, because the first walker is absent, but there is an additional walker far behind them and to the left.
I think it would be great if the walker that crushes Luke's speeder could be made into the same walker that Luke later blows up. I think it makes sense because it is the walker that is closest by, and it also means that Luke would get back at the walker that crushed his speeder.
This requires 1) that the third walker further behind is composed into shots of the first two, 2) that the first walker is inserted into a shot where we see the exploding AT-AT from behind.

Now... after writing down the wish above, I checked the old script: In the script, the destroyed walker is standing to the right of Veers' walker as he is destroying the Rebels' power generator!
Whoa! I think it would be really great if someone could pull this off.
It would mean that it would have been Veers' that had shot down Zev and Luke's snowspeders!
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Again, a couple more ideas:

- when R2D2 shoots the lightsaber into the air, and Luke is waiting with his hand in the air for it, this could be shortened just a little bit, so it would seem even more synchronized, a real Jedi move.
- of course, in the Vader-Emperor dialog in ESB, Vader must already know about being Luke's father! The actual dialog will normally depend on the available sources to use in the scene.
- now a bolder suggestion: emperor's minions could perhaps (if technically possible) changed from humans to neimoidians. There is plenty of neimoidian footage in the PT. This would be really a minor change since emperor's minions play no real role in the OT, but as neimoidian opportunistic nature suggests, they stay close to the ruling party - the emperor.

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Originally posted by: Joshua_Blue
Again, a couple more ideas:
now a bolder suggestion: emperor's minions could perhaps (if technically possible) changed from humans to neimoidians. There is plenty of neimoidian footage in the PT. This would be really a minor change since emperor's minions play no real role in the OT, but as neimoidian opportunistic nature suggests, they stay close to the ruling party - the emperor.


But after he becomes Emperor, isn't Palpatine supposed to become a 'specist', which is why the Empire is entirely human? Because he has a disdain for non-humans.


Anyway, some humble suggestions from me...

ESB:
Change Captain Needa's shuttle to a Tydirium model...I hate the stupid block thing that they left in for the SE

Get rid of that terrible new Wampa footage. It doesn't even remotely match the original stuff...the lighting, the creature design, none of it. I also think the scene is more effective without the added footage.

Maybe articulate Yoda a little more to make him look more like the CG version in the PT.

Something should be done about the Emperor scene, but retaining McDiamird as the Emperor IMO is a must.

If this edit is made to fit into the PT canon, Fett's voice should probably stay as Morrison. Unless you can 'fanon' it and make up some thing about his larynx being damaged or something. Or like Gorilla said a voice scrambler. Maybe you can even alter Wingreen's versions to sound either more digital or like Morrison's voice, because Morrison's delivery was really weak here.

I don't mind the added Star Destroyer stuff, but maybe you can just cut the landing scene so we see the shuttle coming in to land, but never actually land. That, or find a way to make the landing footage new...could be extremely difficult. As for Vader's lines...well doesn't the original 'Prepare my shuttle' line from the OOT version make sense even with the added footage? Couldn't you just use that instead of the pointless changed line?

ROTJ:

Lapti Nek and YubNub need to make a serious comeback. But if you use the original puppet footage, maybe remove Sy Snootle's 'snot', the string that goes from her mouth to the microphone (I assume) to control the effect. It's so obvious that I even noticed it when I was a kid.

The Sarlaac pit needs to go back to it's beakless state.

Don something about Yoda's finger/hand bending during his death scene...it's an obvious rubber hand.

Leave the poor Ewoks alone, I never minded them.

I actually like Hayden appearing as a ghost. It's a kind of visualization for the "Vader betrayed and murdered Anakin" thing and to me, it just makes sense that his spirit would be that of who he was before he went to the Dark Side.
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Originally posted by: beckmen

If this edit is made to fit into the PT canon, Fett's voice should probably stay as Morrison. Unless you can 'fanon' it and make up some thing about his larynx being damaged or something. Or like Gorilla said a voice scrambler. Maybe you can even alter Wingreen's versions to sound either more digital or like Morrison's voice, because Morrison's delivery was really weak here.


Accents are not inherited. And accents learned early in life can be lost later if you're exposed to different accents, especially for long periods of exposure.

You know of the rebellion against the Empire?