Info & Ideas: ESB and ROTJ Wishlist — Page 190

Great picture of Coruscant.  Honestly, I didn't know that a Statue was even being torn down at the end of the movie.  I always thought that it was just a celebration.  

Adding some footage would be a great way to end the saga.  Mabey show the statue up close and it being torn down.  Mabey do an area view of Coruscant and get a better shot of the Jedi Temple.  I want to know that it is there, not just a distant shot of it.

If Coruscant is going to get that much attention at the end of the movie, then shouldn't it be shown earlier in the OT to still hint that it is there?

Darth Venal said:

 Wasn't that scene shot after principle photography simply because it was an FX shot?

Well I'm not sure, I had read in a dossier in the French official magazine that they almost forgot to shoot this scene, and that they shot it several months after, next to the Ranch. And so I noticed that the "glove" might have been added by ILM after (I know, it's not a big deal but anyway :P).

DuTwan said:

Im not sexiest lol. Just that most tribes consider men to be 'the boss', the leaders, thats why they carry the bows and the children and women arent battle ready.

LOL indeed.  Did anyone else think of Spinal Tap when they read this?

Darth Venal said:

Bingowings:

Picking up the pieces could turn our heroic Alliance into a government just as bad as the Empire (Lucas is nuts for ending the story with Jedi, there is still so much more story to tell).

What would be the point of that story, though? Wasn't the story we have about that already? It would just be repetition. As much as I'd probably enjoy three post-OT movies, I do accept Lucas' assertion that this is about fall and redemption. The existing six movies work together as one whole, a new trilogy couldn't fit like that. It would be lile Babylon 5 Season 5, and I can do without another one of those.

 B5 didn't really do that story well, neither did the PT (in reverse).

 We have been rooting for the cause of these characters for three films.

Leia shows a lot of potential to fall to the darkside, there are possibly millions of Imperial troops (who would have to be dealt with in some way even if the Imperials did completely surrender) and left over superweapon technology like the Death Star. Slavery was never addressed by the Republic (in fact they endorsed it in the form of the clones and to some extent droids too) and the Empire took much the same stance.

It would be far more interesting to find out how the OT heroes cope with success than it was watching the PT characters just fail.

It's not going to happen but it would be good to leave enough floating for the possibilties to be played with in the audience's minds after the film finishes.

Besides Vader throwing his master down a death pit doesn't really redeem him, you would need another trilogy for that to happen.

Bingowings:

Besides Vader throwing his master down a death pit doesn't really redeem him, you would need another trilogy for that to happen.

You've got to be kidding.

Darth Venal said:

Bingowings:

Besides Vader throwing his master down a death pit doesn't really redeem him, you would need another trilogy for that to happen.

You've got to be kidding.

Well, to be fair, Vader was only trying to move the Emperor to a more advantageous spot, but accidentally dropped him.

Darth Venal said:

You've got to be kidding.

If the story is about him redeeming himself he has a lot to do as ghost to achieve that, I can't really seeing him as falling either, he spent most of the PT acting just the same as he did as Vader (only without the cool costume and the dignified voice).

If you asking me if I want to sit through three more films with Hayden in, clearly no I don't.

The two we already have are bad enough.

Jumping into a future where Seb Shaw's ghost has been trying to guide Luke and Leia to a point the damage caused by their father is fixed would work.

Not that it's ever going to happen.

Besides most of the problems in the Star Wars galaxy were not caused by Vader or Palpatine (they just exploited the mess that was already there).

Bingowings:

Besides most of the problems in the Star Wars galaxy were not caused by Vader or Palpatine (they just exploited the mess that was already there).

But that has nothing to do with what these movies are about. The original trilogy, with the prequels now heavy-handedly underlining it, is absolutely nothing to do with that; they are about making the right choice, doing what is best for all and not for one, and believing in yourself (before one's level of metaphorical self-belief could be quantified by a blood test!).

Anything else, like a third trilogy, would feel like an extension, not the final part of the whole. There is a distinct and intentional story arc to these six movies, and it's complete.

Bingowings said:

 

 

 

Besides Vader throwing his master down a death pit doesn't really redeem him, you would need another trilogy for that to happen.

 

I disagree. That is an act of personal redemption. He doesn't somehow negate all of the evil he's done, but he does, in those final moments, reclaim his ability to chose to do good after decades of being a slave to evil. He dies a man, not a puppet of the Dark Side. He doesn't need to go and build Habitat For Humanity or anything to accomplish that.

(Which is why in the EU it seems SO LAME that they name Han and Leia's kid Anakin.  There's no denying that their father was one of the biggest SOBs in the galaxy)

Bingowings said:

 

 

Besides most of the problems in the Star Wars galaxy were not caused by Vader or Palpatine (they just exploited the mess that was already there).

Again, I disagree.

The Naboo blockade is instigated by Palpatine, who orders the invasion. This is all based on deadlock in the Senate that Palpy is very possibly responsible for. The Seperatist Crisis is organized by Palpy's henchman Dooku as an excuse to use the army Palpy created. Palpy acheives power, murders the Jedi and stops the war overnight, now with his awesome army in place to enforce his will.

The galaxy was probably doin' allright if not for the millenium long machinantions of the Sith.

on a lighter note james earl jones is in this weeks house episode. he plays a dictator who is responceible for the death of many innocents. ooh the irony.

My point still stands.

Star Wars is not the tale of Anakin's fall and redemption (if it was intended to be that came very late in the day).

He doesn't really fall and he isn't really redeemed (yes he performs an independent act which saves his son, that's it).

The series is called Star Wars not the "Anakin Skywalker".

And there is plenty of room for telling stories about what happens to the OT characters in later life on screen.

We won't see that naturally but an ending to ROTJ which hints that the story continues could be interesting.

> "Star Wars is not the tale of Anakin's fall and redemption"

Hehe, now I know you're joking. Whether the writing was successful is one thing, but there is no disputing the story arc. It's crystal clear.

> "The series is called Star Wars not the 'Anakin Skywalker'."

Now that's just being silly.

> "We won't see that naturally but an ending to ROTJ which hints that the story continues could be interesting"

No, and Jedi doesn't end that way because the story was complete.

How could Star Wars have been always about Vader's redemption if he wasn't originally going to be Luke's father?

You do realise that Lucas is just making this stuff up as he goes along don't you?

Sure ESB shifted the story around but it's only when the PT was announced and Anakin was cast as the little chosen one that the whole thing being about him line popped up.

Before that it was a story about wars in the stars of a galaxy far, far away a long time ago.

Why that should end just as the interesting characters succeed in a major victory is genuinely beyond me.

Bewy said:

Darth Venal said:

 Wasn't that scene shot after principle photography simply because it was an FX shot?

Well I'm not sure, I had read in a dossier in the French official magazine that they almost forgot to shoot this scene, and that they shot it several months after, next to the Ranch. And so I noticed that the "glove" might have been added by ILM after (I know, it's not a big deal but anyway :P).

The funeral pyre scene was shot in Marin after principal had ended.

Darth Venal said:

Bingowings:

Besides Vader throwing his master down a death pit doesn't really redeem him, you would need another trilogy for that to happen.

 

You've got to be kidding.

 

I've gotta go with bingo on this one.

I think there are numerous possibilities for a ST.

Imagine the power vacuum after the emperor died. The galaxy would be plunged into chaos. Look what happened when the soviets fell apart: little fiefdoms were established, small wars broke out, old coalitions resumed. It was fractured.

However, I have to say the main problem with an sequel trilogy wouldn't be "Anakin was redeemed". No he was not." It would be:

Who would be a villain?

But anyway...back to ROTJ

Bingowings:

Why that should end just as the interesting characters succeed in a major victory is genuinely beyond me.

I guess that's where we differ, as my feeling on continuing beyond the end of the Empire is "why should it continue?"

Just because a universe is replete with possibilities doesn't mean I need to see them all. I think the story ends precisely where it should. I refer again Babylon 5. As many of us know, the original Season 5 was squeezed into Season 4 in case the show was cancelled, but as Season 4 was so successful (and rightly so!) Straczynski had to come up with a new story arc for that season. It didn't work. It was "beyond" the organic story arc of that universe. That's precisely how I regard Star Wars. It's done, the story is complete.

I'm not sure if I imagined this being mentioned before or not, but there might be some overhead footage of Fangorn forest in The Two Towers that could be used for some extended/redone Endor shots.

Also, if you want to give the Ewoks a more feasible 'edge' in the battle, how about some sentient tree-like creatures start joining in to kick some stormtrooper ass?

Here are my first mockups!!!!

This shot of Ewoks nimbly leaping over a log could easily (relative term, I couldn't do it) become more intense with the addition of blaster shots they narrowly avoid... or even one might get hit mid-air!!!

And here's a shot simulating my proposed final pan up, from the happy heroes, to the fireworks up to the stars, where as the music crescendos, the audience POV itself is sucked into hyperspace. I even would say the credits should roll over hyperspace starlines, a special ending for the final film.

Bobocop said:

Ganamae burned into my retinas:

LOL was thinking the same thing.