Well, I think I've done about all I can on this one. Apologies for any horrible colour/black crushing that Photobucket does, it's not there in the original image. It's not necessarily for the celebration scene, although that sky might look nice with fireworks exploding in it; it's just as easily a night establishing shot of somewhere near the Ewok camp.
Another thing I don't like with ROTJ is how it shows the Empire in the first scene and then they aren't shown for another hour into the movie. If that 45 straight, boring minutes of Jabba's palace could be split up then that would be cool.
Good points about the Yoda stuff Bingowings.
Maybe you could put the Emperor's arrival before the journey to the Sarlacc begins, and then after they flee Tatooine instead of cutting to the Death Star you can go straight to the Rebel Alliance gathering, as Yoda and the Emperor's arrival will have happened already.
However, while all this might sound feasible, there are real risks of upsetting the pacing of the story. Going straight from Jabba's destruction to the Rebel meeting is a bad idea. You need a soft scene in the middle, which is where Dagobah is at the moment.
The Empire is really Act II so Vader's arrival just tells us that once Luke has sorted one mess, there is still a bigger mess to worry about.
I fancied ending Act I with Luke and the Falcon having to dodge Star Destroyers that Vader has placed waiting for Luke to rescue Han.
It would remind us that the Empire is the bigger fish and that their reach is a bit further than just around the forest moon.
Well, I think the last thing we need in Jedi is another parallel to Star Wars. It's already an inferior remake of it anyway, so I would avoid any more duplication like fleeing Star Destroyers when leaving Tatooine.
Variety could be added by throwing in fighters (something we didn't see first time around) it's different in the sense that (in the immortal words of the Hollywood trailers) this time it's personal.
It's an extension of the quest of Vader to find Luke we saw in ESB (something he is forced to call off when the Emperor turns up).
Vader must know Luke will eventually turn up to rescue Han and as with ESB he would want his friends too for leverage.
The only person who could stop Vader from continuing on that course would be his boss and it would be nice to see Luke shoot something in his X-Wing one last time.
Well, each to their own. I still think it's repeating, and fighters don't really change that. Besides, you can't have a few shots of a battle without character reactions and then cut to the next scene. What scenes would you use for the characters?
There's the snag, we don't have much to play with there, in the film as it is we don't see the crew of the Falcon, we just hear them.
You could play up the familarity of the situation by moving Threepio's "Here we go again" there (but set it inside the Falcon being shot at) and let the models do the rest.
It would underline how relentless Vader is up until that point.
It may be possible to replace Nien Numb for Chewie for a few seconds of the Falcon cockpit and maybe a Star Destroyer bridge shot.
The sequence needn't be very long, just enough to remind us that the situation for Luke hasn't changed much in terms of his relationship with his father.
A wee challenge for the video mockup gang perhaps?
Also keep in mind that the Imperials already had a presence on Tatooine.. it would not be surprising that they kept at least a small contingent of troops after ANH.
If you were to add the SD there, I would probably keep it at one, or just even have a handfull of TIEs; not so much to engage and have a space battle, but they see the Falcon and X-wing from a distance, report in, the report gets to Vader and leads to the DS2 reveal scene, with Vader knowing of Luke's plans, as he is having Luke shadowed (Vader would be smart enough to know that eventually Luke would go to save his friend Han from Jabba, and being that Luke came from Tatooine to begin with, it would be no different than cops staking out a criminal's parents or girlfriend's home).
I would still cut out Vader's arrival in the beginning altogether, since it is redundant as we see the DS2 and have a shuttle land in a DS docking bay when the Emperor arrives.
You could progess as follows:
(1) drop down from scroll into Dagobah atmosphere to swamp surface. Maybe take a training scene from EMPIRE and replace/recolor Luke's fatigues to black and add him chopping something with his lightsabre during one of his backflips. He goes to Yoda's hut and the conversation ends with Yoda dying. Luke goes out to the X-wing preparing to leave.
(2) cut Obi-wan's scene here and either do a top-down vertical swipe or have the camera move down from space to surface of Tatooine with the droids approaching Jabba's palace, where more or less the film continues as it does originally. Whether or not Obi's scene is redone to be at his old hut or not would be up to editor. Personally, I like someone else's idea that once Yoda dies, Luke is on his own with no pep talk or anything until his final confrontation with Vader. That would make Luke's speech later with Leia something that he has figured out through the Force as opposed to Obi-Wan simply telling him flat out.
(3) when they leave Tatooine, have the camera linger as we see the X-wing and Falcon leave (would probably have to alter the FX to show them leaving in formation as opposed to splitting up). As they do a hyperspace jump, we hear and then see 2 or 4 TIEs fly overhead and we hear one of the pilots sending in a message on a coded channel. This segways to Vader, who could be seen pressing a button on his chest plate to indicate that he is the only one getting the message (I would assume that helmet has headphones in it), which then goes to him and the Emperor leaving in said shuttle to the DS2 and thus moving us to the B plot.
“You people must realize that the public owns you for life, and when you’re dead, you’ll all be in commercials dancing with vacuum cleaners.”
– Homer Simpson
There has been talk about killing off Lando in ROTJ. I’m not sure whether I think that’s a good idea or not, but I’ve been thinking about how to do it if the decision is made to do so.
Here’s a thought.
The fleet starts moving away from the Death Star before the fatal shots are fired. They’re well coordinated and they know what’s coming. Wedge and Lando fire their shots more or less simultaneously and BOOM. They never have a chance to outrun the explosion. They know when they pull their triggers that they’re not getting out of there, but they don’t hesitate for a moment. The true epitome of heroism.
Time is running out for the Rebels. Antilles upcourt to Skywalker. He’s being paced by Darth Va— the bone-jarring pick by Solo! He came out of nowhere! Skywalker’s open from way outside, he launches at the buzzer... Good! It’s good! The Rebels win on a sensational buzzer beater by Luke Skywalker! Let’s take another look at that last shot. He just does get it off in time. Wow, what a shot. That’s why they call him Luke Legend.
That may be the most exciting battle I have ever been privileged to broadcast. Certainly the most dramatic finish. We’ll get you an update on the Artoo Detoo injury situation in just a moment. Right now let’s go courtside where SuperShadow is waiting with Chewbacca.
Monroville said:
Vader would be smart enough to know that eventually Luke would go to save his friend Han from Jabba, and being that Luke came from Tatooine to begin with, it would be no different than cops staking out a criminal's parents or girlfriend's home.
Vader is under explicit instructions from the Emperor not to go after Luke, but to wait for Luke to come to him.
Time is running out for the Rebels. Antilles upcourt to Skywalker. He’s being paced by Darth Va— the bone-jarring pick by Solo! He came out of nowhere! Skywalker’s open from way outside, he launches at the buzzer... Good! It’s good! The Rebels win on a sensational buzzer beater by Luke Skywalker! Let’s take another look at that last shot. He just does get it off in time. Wow, what a shot. That’s why they call him Luke Legend.
That may be the most exciting battle I have ever been privileged to broadcast. Certainly the most dramatic finish. We’ll get you an update on the Artoo Detoo injury situation in just a moment. Right now let’s go courtside where SuperShadow is waiting with Chewbacca.
Ghost said:
Also, do you think it would work to put the Luke on Dagobah scenes at the beginning of the movie. It would make the whole Luke a master Jedi thing more believable.
I must respectfully disagree.
Come RotJ, the last time we saw Luke, he was licking his wounds, so to speak, on the medical frigate at the end of ESB. By starving the audience of Luke's appearance for so long in the begging of the movie and teasing them with dialogue about him spoken by other characters, you build anticipation. People will be wondering, "Oh, man where's Luke? I wanna see Luke? Why isn't Luke here?" It makes the sudden appearance of this wiser, stronger, more mature Luke Skywalker/Jedi Knight - who is nothing like the beaten and bruised teen from the end of ESB - all the more powerful.
-Rhikter
cap said:
There has been talk about killing off Lando in ROTJ. I’m not sure whether I think that’s a good idea or not, but I’ve been thinking about how to do it if the decision is made to do so.
Here’s a thought.
The fleet starts moving away from the Death Star before the fatal shots are fired. They’re well coordinated and they know what’s coming. Wedge and Lando fire their shots more or less simultaneously and BOOM. They never have a chance to outrun the explosion. They know when they pull their triggers that they’re not getting out of there, but they don’t hesitate for a moment. The true epitome of heroism.
Made a video awhile back that sort of shows something like that.
Star Wars Episode XXX: Erica Strikes Back
If you want Nice, go to France
Davnes007 said:
cap said:
There has been talk about killing off Lando in ROTJ. I’m not sure whether I think that’s a good idea or not, but I’ve been thinking about how to do it if the decision is made to do so.
Here’s a thought.
The fleet starts moving away from the Death Star before the fatal shots are fired. They’re well coordinated and they know what’s coming. Wedge and Lando fire their shots more or less simultaneously and BOOM. They never have a chance to outrun the explosion. They know when they pull their triggers that they’re not getting out of there, but they don’t hesitate for a moment. The true epitome of heroism.
Made a video awhile back that sort of shows something like that.
i know this is off topic, but Davnes, what can u do with that tongue of jabba's licking leia? i thought he'd have it flapping at leia or something. either that or have a smaller mouth come out like in the movie alien vs. predator.
cap said:
Monroville said:
Vader would be smart enough to know that eventually Luke would go to save his friend Han from Jabba, and being that Luke came from Tatooine to begin with, it would be no different than cops staking out a criminal's parents or girlfriend's home.
Vader is under explicit instructions from the Emperor not to go after Luke, but to wait for Luke to come to him.
True, but Vader wouldn't be above disobeying the Emperor for his own agenda, provided of course he could talk his way out of any punishment. Besides, even if he can't go after Luke it doesn't mean he can't send his guys out to keep an eye on him.
Rhikter: I know where you're coming from. Regardless of the audience wondering where Luke is, that is just a great character introduction (Luke entering Jabba's palace). Maybe if you had the opening on Dagobah, only shots of Luke from a distance where we never really get a good look at his face are shown. When Yoda says his lines, we can only hear Luke off camera. That way while we know that the person we are seeing is pretty much Luke, we don't get to see his face until he reveals it when he flings his hood back at the palace.
“You people must realize that the public owns you for life, and when you’re dead, you’ll all be in commercials dancing with vacuum cleaners.”
– Homer Simpson
rcb said:
i know this is off topic, but Davnes, what can u do with that tongue of jabba's licking leia? i thought he'd have it flapping at leia or something. either that or have a smaller mouth come out like in the movie alien vs. predator.
I never had a problm with Jabba licking Leia. Leia is a very tasty girl :D
Star Wars Episode XXX: Erica Strikes Back
If you want Nice, go to France
Monroville said:
cap said:
Monroville said:
Vader would be smart enough to know that eventually Luke would go to save his friend Han from Jabba, and being that Luke came from Tatooine to begin with, it would be no different than cops staking out a criminal's parents or girlfriend's home.
Vader is under explicit instructions from the Emperor not to go after Luke, but to wait for Luke to come to him.
True, but Vader wouldn't be above disobeying the Emperor for his own agenda, provided of course he could talk his way out of any punishment.
True, but Vader and the Emperor aren’t really working at cross purposes here. They both want to turn Luke to the Dark Side. The Emperor believes that the best way to accomplish that goal is to wait for Luke to come to Vader instead of going after him and grabbing him, and I think Vader trusts his master’s wisdom. Certainly he does later in the film, when he tells the Emperor that Luke has landed on Endor, the Emperor tells him to go to the moon and wait for Luke to come to him, and he does as he is instructed.
Time is running out for the Rebels. Antilles upcourt to Skywalker. He’s being paced by Darth Va— the bone-jarring pick by Solo! He came out of nowhere! Skywalker’s open from way outside, he launches at the buzzer... Good! It’s good! The Rebels win on a sensational buzzer beater by Luke Skywalker! Let’s take another look at that last shot. He just does get it off in time. Wow, what a shot. That’s why they call him Luke Legend.
That may be the most exciting battle I have ever been privileged to broadcast. Certainly the most dramatic finish. We’ll get you an update on the Artoo Detoo injury situation in just a moment. Right now let’s go courtside where SuperShadow is waiting with Chewbacca.
I had a kind of weird thought about the final words in the saga.
As of 2004, the final words of the saga are “Wesa free!” I think we can all agree that sucks and needs to go.
Before 2004, it was the “I won’t get in the way” conversation between Han and Leia, which is so completely out of character for Han. I cannot stand that conversation, or the similar “Could you tell Luke, is that who you could tell?” conversation earlier in the film. I pray that Adywan will excise those terrible moments.
If we get rid of that, the last line becomes 3PO’s “They did it!” It’s not nearly as painful as the Han-Leia exchange, but it’s not worthy of being the final words of the saga.
So I started going back and looking for something that is worthy of that honor, and there’s really only one candidate: Anakin’s dying words, “You already have, Luke. You were right. You were right about me. Tell your sister... you were right.” If anybody besides me gives a damn, I think it’s doable.
Luke follows up Anakin’s dying words with, “Father, I won’t leave you,” but I don’t think it’s necessary for Luke to say that to his father’s corpse. Mark Hamill does some fine nonverbal acting in this scene, and I think it would be more emotionally powerful if Luke just endures the moment silently, expressing himself with his face and body language rather than unnecessary words.
Then there’s some chatter between Lando and Wedge coordinating their attack on the power generator, and Akbar ordering the fleet to move away from the Death Star. There’s nothing wrong with this dialog per se, but there’s nothing necessary about it either. The action is easy enough to follow and we don’t need the characters to narrate it for us.
There’s “Yeehaw!” as the Falcon escapes the Death Star. I’m not sure whether it qualifies as a word, but it sounds rather out of place in a galaxy far, far away. If Lando dies, that goes away.
Then there’s “They did it!”, the “I won’t get in the way” conversation, and “Wesa free!”, none of which will be missed.
BTW, if “Yub Nub” is reinstated, then the final words of the saga are “Celebrate the love.” I personally like the song, but I don’t expect it to be reinstated.
Time is running out for the Rebels. Antilles upcourt to Skywalker. He’s being paced by Darth Va— the bone-jarring pick by Solo! He came out of nowhere! Skywalker’s open from way outside, he launches at the buzzer... Good! It’s good! The Rebels win on a sensational buzzer beater by Luke Skywalker! Let’s take another look at that last shot. He just does get it off in time. Wow, what a shot. That’s why they call him Luke Legend.
That may be the most exciting battle I have ever been privileged to broadcast. Certainly the most dramatic finish. We’ll get you an update on the Artoo Detoo injury situation in just a moment. Right now let’s go courtside where SuperShadow is waiting with Chewbacca.
.
Time is running out for the Rebels. Antilles upcourt to Skywalker. He’s being paced by Darth Va— the bone-jarring pick by Solo! He came out of nowhere! Skywalker’s open from way outside, he launches at the buzzer... Good! It’s good! The Rebels win on a sensational buzzer beater by Luke Skywalker! Let’s take another look at that last shot. He just does get it off in time. Wow, what a shot. That’s why they call him Luke Legend.
That may be the most exciting battle I have ever been privileged to broadcast. Certainly the most dramatic finish. We’ll get you an update on the Artoo Detoo injury situation in just a moment. Right now let’s go courtside where SuperShadow is waiting with Chewbacca.
cap said:
Monroville said:
Vader would be smart enough to know that eventually Luke would go to save his friend Han from Jabba, and being that Luke came from Tatooine to begin with, it would be no different than cops staking out a criminal's parents or girlfriend's home.
Vader is under explicit instructions from the Emperor not to go after Luke, but to wait for Luke to come to him.
Vader doesn't explicitly receive those instructions until the Emperor arrives at the Death Star II, which happens later in the film.
Rhikter said:
Bingowings said:
Also, do you think it would work to put the Luke on Dagobah scenes at the beginning of the movie. It would make the whole Luke a master Jedi thing more believable.
I must respectfully disagree.
Come RotJ, the last time we saw Luke, he was licking his wounds, so to speak, on the medical frigate at the end of ESB. By starving the audience of Luke's appearance for so long in the begging of the movie and teasing them with dialogue about him spoken by other characters, you build anticipation. People will be wondering, "Oh, man where's Luke? I wanna see Luke? Why isn't Luke here?" It makes the sudden appearance of this wiser, stronger, more mature Luke Skywalker/Jedi Knight - who is nothing like the beaten and bruised teen from the end of ESB - all the more powerful.
Those aren't my words, Ghost was asking that question.
The hologram message blows that anyway and the results of keeping the shadowy first physical appearence (which is admittedly cool) is that Yoda's death and Luke's training become laughably stupid. Besides it is just an temporary thing, he goes from hooded powerful Jedi to struggling hero again at the push of a trapdoor button and doesn't return there for pretty much the rest of the movie.
Other than being a rage fueled nearly Sith when he's beating up dad (see Obi-Wan in TPM), the next nearest Luke gets to being like old Ben is when he is telling his friends to hand over their weapons to a bunch of hungry bear people intent on having a barbecue.
Luke should be a Jedi Knight but he still has a long way to go before he can call himself a Jedi Master.
The real hanging storyline from ESB isn't what's Luke doing but what's going to happen to Han.
At the end of ESB we know Luke got away and is planning to rescue Han and it makes sense after having Yoda's teachings about patience underlined to him in the strongest way with his pointless attempt to rescue his friends, the logical first step is not to have him rush into rescuing Han but to have him rescue Han as a fully trained Jedi Knight.
Sun stay still! Its funny how many times the shadows and sun changes position. if we cant alter it at least make it look like dayight.
-Angel
The change in lighting is very nice and helps make things constant. :) I do somewhat like the less defined texture of the sand in the original better, though.
Rhikter said:
Bingowings said:
Also, do you think it would work to put the Luke on Dagobah scenes at the beginning of the movie. It would make the whole Luke a master Jedi thing more believable.
I must respectfully disagree.
Come RotJ, the last time we saw Luke, he was licking his wounds, so to speak, on the medical frigate at the end of ESB. By starving the audience of Luke's appearance for so long in the begging of the movie and teasing them with dialogue about him spoken by other characters, you build anticipation. People will be wondering, "Oh, man where's Luke? I wanna see Luke? Why isn't Luke here?" It makes the sudden appearance of this wiser, stronger, more mature Luke Skywalker/Jedi Knight - who is nothing like the beaten and bruised teen from the end of ESB - all the more powerful.
I agree. His entrance is mythic.
Bingowings said:
Those aren't my words, Ghost was asking that question.
My bad, I fixed it.
-Rhikter
Replaced Lando matte figure, enhance the landscape added luke's missing saber.
-Angel