Some of Angel's ideas have already made it into ESB:R Lord V so while we may never see exactly these changes (well not yet) they serve as pointers towards what may be attempted.
As technology moves on perhaps the now impossible will one day be possible (like removing Harrison Ford's gurning in the scenes SSWR just put up, at them moment that couldn't be tackled even on a frame by frame basis).
Here is my try. This time he is carved into the tree.
"The other versions will disappear. Even the 35 million tapes of Star Wars out there won’t last more than 30 or 40 years. A hundred years from now, the only version of the movie that anyone will remember will be the DVD version [of the Special Edition], and you’ll be able to project it on a 20’ by 40’ screen with perfect quality. I think it’s the director’s prerogative, not the studio’s to go back and reinvent a movie." - George Lucas
<span> </span>
^That's nice and simple.
Thanks!!!!!!!!!
"The other versions will disappear. Even the 35 million tapes of Star Wars out there won’t last more than 30 or 40 years. A hundred years from now, the only version of the movie that anyone will remember will be the DVD version [of the Special Edition], and you’ll be able to project it on a 20’ by 40’ screen with perfect quality. I think it’s the director’s prerogative, not the studio’s to go back and reinvent a movie." - George Lucas
<span> </span>
While folding my smalls, I started thinking about the Wicket scene (which is redundant and largely removed in SSWR's Video mockup).
I visualised replacing Wicket with some deer like creature which Leia could befriend instead (arrr Bambi defuses arrr Teddy Bears):
It sniffs the air and runs.
The scouts attack Leia, she shoots one and out from the forest arrows shoot the other.
We don't know what happens to her next until we see her in the Ewok village.
Possibly impossible to do but it would have maintained the suspence because Leia would be in the power of unseen warriors who can silently kill Imperials and were watching her being both respectful to forest creatures but also fighting their enemies.
This would lead to the surprise that these warriors are small bear like creatures.
Bingowings said:
While folding my smalls, I started thinking about the Wicket scene (which is redundant and largely removed in SSWR's Video mockup).
I visualised replacing Wicket with some deer like creature which Leia could befriend instead.
It sniffs the air and runs.
The scouts attack Leia, she shoots one and out from the forest arrows shoot the other.
We don't know what happens to her next until we see her in the Ewok village.
Possibly impossible to do but it would have maintained the suspence because Leia would be in the power of unseen warriors who can silently kill Imperials and were watching her being both respectful to forest creatures but also fighting their enemies.
This would lead to the surprise that these warriors are small bear like creatures.
Hmmm...i really like that idea....
I removed part of the wicket scene thinking that perhaps we could then use the footage of Liea shooting at empirials for the final forest battle....
Attack of the Clones: Alternate Timeline Edit Thread:
https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/SSWRs-Attack-of-the-Clones-Alternate-Timeline-Edit/id/66888
HotRod said:
satanika said:
And a bonus for all you pervs:
(Rightclick and 'view image')
They look a little flat and saggy to me!!!
This was obviously taken a few years before the 'Wonderbra' of the 1990's? tape on nipples is SO not a good look! believe me, I've done it!!! (hell to take off too - ouch!)
I am a kite dancing in a hurricane …
Darth Venal said:
SSWR:"Angel, those pics of 3PO in Jabbas palace are stunning! It's feels more like ESB as far as the cinematography goes...could this be achievable in ROTJ:R? I sure hope so..."
Don't we all wish it were achievable. But not the level of enhancement Angel has made. Those changes would have to be made to every single frame, match-moved, etc. It's incredibly difficult, and virtually impossible to get right. The lighting, contrast and colour of a shot can be tinkered with and greatly improved much more easily but when it comes to specific elements being changed frame by frame, it's nigh impossible. I think Angel's mock-ups are really great, some of the changes are beautiful, but they stand as more as a "Look what could've been" rather than what can be done.
While I'm a realist too, I also realize my sights weren't set high enough when it came to changes. So I like the philosophy of bingowings: Aim high and the reality of what can be done will rise too. Not as high, but higher than if we confined ourselves only to what we assume could be done.
I'm still amazed at all that has already been done by non-professionals.
Well, I'm all for having big ideas, maybe I've been doing this long enough to know what most of us can do with our "non-professional" resources. Sure, some excellent changes can be made, Adywan proved that already, but some things suggested are just not going to happen. Being realistic shouldn't be conflated with being a killjoy, that's not my intention, I just think so much of the talent around here could/should be focused on achieving things that are feasible.
Some things aren't going to happen (probably) but sometimes things happen beyond even the most ambitious expectations (sometimes by accident, sometimes by hard work paying off in unexpected ways).
There's a lot to be said for being unrealistically ambitious, because even failiure can be a useful learning experience.
What will not happen (yet) should be something discovered not something prescribed.
Well, each to their own. :-)
Bingowings said:
Some of Angel's ideas have already made it into ESB:R Lord V so while we may never see exactly these changes (well not yet) they serve as pointers towards what may be attempted.
Adrew Kramer says that is possible!
Easy? No!
-Angel
Davnes007 said:
And now for something completely different....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5W6qQhewyJ0
:D
Davnes u never cease to amaze me!
i know there's been a few star trek vs. star wars, but how about u do ur own version? just a thought...
Nice idea, rcb! :)
Darth Venal said:
Well, I'm all for having big ideas, maybe I've been doing this long enough to know what most of us can do with our "non-professional" resources. Sure, some excellent changes can be made, Adywan proved that already, but some things suggested are just not going to happen. Being realistic shouldn't be conflated with being a killjoy, that's not my intention, I just think so much of the talent around here could/should be focused on achieving things that are feasible.
I think its a better attitute to think "how could this be done?" instead of "this can't be done" before even attempting something. yeh, sure there are things that possibly couldn't be done at the moment but who's to say what someone will come up with around the corner?
Don't forget that in 1975, when a young film-maker wanted to do his space opera there were no effects houses that were capable of putting his ideas on screen or the technology to do it. But he had the attitude of "how can this be done" and look what we got. Many of the techniques used had to be developed especially for that movie. It only takes 1 person to come up with a solution to a seemingly impossible task .
Dykstraflex rules! :)
With all due respect, Ady, and apologies for what might have come across more negatively than it was intended, but I don't think you can compare where we are now to where Lucas was in 1975. I work in the industry and my ex works for Framestore, so I know as well as anyone what can or can't be done, as do many of us. I'm talking about us here on the forums, with our limited resources, make alterations to these movies. And some things can't be done with what we have now, meaning some of the mock-ups we've been doing.
And as for Lucas not having anyone to do his special effects, and him purpose-building ILM, yes, we know that story. But you make it sound like they invented visual effects, which they didn't. There wasn't a single technique used on the FX in Star Wars that was new; ILM didn't invent a single thing. I'm sure some people will gasp at me for that, but it's a fact. Not matte paintings, travelling mattes, motion control photography, animation elements (eg sabres and lasers) in live action - not one invention. The early ILM fellas, love their work as I have all my life, didn't do anything more than collate all the techniques that had been used before into one dedicated house. Yes, they revolutionised FX, but they weren't masters of invention in that period. Dykstraflex may have been developed more for Star Wars, but motion control was around for a decade before that.
Maybe I oversimplified when I said some things can't be done. I was more meaning they probably can't be done sufficiently well, given the time and money we have to devote to them. New sequences are all well and good, but match-moving is painfully difficult when you're dealing with shots that weren't intended to be FXed afterwards.
vaderios said:
Are you a pothead?
-Angel
I like this version of Jabba more, he's a lot more menacing with all the smoke and of course the eyes.
I'm surprised you didn't notice that that was a ventilation shaft, they are rather far inside the building :p
"Star Wars is supposed to be happy-go-lucky-let's-go-blow-up-a-Star-Destroyer [not like the New Jedi Order]"- Brendon C.
"Canon... includes the screenplays, the films, the radio dramas and the novelisations." -Star Wars Insider issue 23
Angel Blue01 said:
I'm surprised you didn't notice that that was a ventilation shaft, they are rather far inside the building :p
A bit off topic for this discussion, but there is a product called a Solatube that can be used to bring light to an interior room from the roof (where a traditional skylight is not practical):
Darth Venal said:
With all due respect, Ady, and apologies for what might have come across more negatively than it was intended, but I don't think you can compare where we are now to where Lucas was in 1975. I work in the industry and my ex works for Framestore, so I know as well as anyone what can or can't be done, as do many of us. I'm talking about us here on the forums, with our limited resources, make alterations to these movies. And some things can't be done with what we have now, meaning some of the mock-ups we've been doing.
And as for Lucas not having anyone to do his special effects, and him purpose-building ILM, yes, we know that story. But you make it sound like they invented visual effects, which they didn't. There wasn't a single technique used on the FX in Star Wars that was new; ILM didn't invent a single thing. I'm sure some people will gasp at me for that, but it's a fact. Not matte paintings, travelling mattes, motion control photography, animation elements (eg sabres and lasers) in live action - not one invention. The early ILM fellas, love their work as I have all my life, didn't do anything more than collate all the techniques that had been used before into one dedicated house. Yes, they revolutionised FX, but they weren't masters of invention in that period. Dykstraflex may have been developed more for Star Wars, but motion control was around for a decade before that.
Maybe I oversimplified when I said some things can't be done. I was more meaning they probably can't be done sufficiently well, given the time and money we have to devote to them. New sequences are all well and good, but match-moving is painfully difficult when you're dealing with shots that weren't intended to be FXed afterwards.
Motion control cameras may have been around before Star Wars but they couldn't do any sort of complex movement. They had to develop a whole new system for the FX in Star Wars. I didn't say that they created special effects or compare where we are now in FX capability to that of 1975 at all. I was talking about the attitute that things can't be done and that if they had had that attitude because the technology wasn't around then we wouldn't have had the level or complexity of FX that appeared in EP4
Ingenious Frinksta, now all I need is a length of tube that can reach to Australia :D
Darth Venal said:
With all due respect, Ady, and apologies for what might have come across more negatively than it was intended, but I don't think you can compare where we are now to where Lucas was in 1975. I work in the industry and my ex works for Framestore, so I know as well as anyone what can or can't be done, as do many of us. I'm talking about us here on the forums, with our limited resources, make alterations to these movies. And some things can't be done with what we have now, meaning some of the mock-ups we've been doing.
And as for Lucas not having anyone to do his special effects, and him purpose-building ILM, yes, we know that story. But you make it sound like they invented visual effects, which they didn't. There wasn't a single technique used on the FX in Star Wars that was new; ILM didn't invent a single thing. I'm sure some people will gasp at me for that, but it's a fact. Not matte paintings, travelling mattes, motion control photography, animation elements (eg sabres and lasers) in live action - not one invention. The early ILM fellas, love their work as I have all my life, didn't do anything more than collate all the techniques that had been used before into one dedicated house. Yes, they revolutionised FX, but they weren't masters of invention in that period. Dykstraflex may have been developed more for Star Wars, but motion control was around for a decade before that.
Maybe I oversimplified when I said some things can't be done. I was more meaning they probably can't be done sufficiently well, given the time and money we have to devote to them. New sequences are all well and good, but match-moving is painfully difficult when you're dealing with shots that weren't intended to be FXed afterwards.
Venal, I understand. I figured you were in the industry based on your work and terminology. You work for DN or MPC?
And of course a still is one thing while something in motion, matchmoved, etc, is something else entirely;however, all I was suggesting is lets think big AND small and then work out the HOW. What matters right now is what makes ROTJ a better story. Frankly, some new mattes, subtle changes to dialogue, and new fx(all doable as ady demonstrated) will go along way.
So lets think small and big for now. Reality will catch up soon enough.
There are certain groups of people who get together that manage to do a lot simply because they don't know what they can't do.
One of the reasons why I love the early work of the BBC Radiophonic Workshop is they were stuck in a room with nothing but some pieces of junk, some clapped out tape recorders, a few electronic noise generators not designed for the purposes they put them to and the best bit of kit in the universe, imagination.
Ben Burtt was pretty much the same as were the early ILM guys.
I just spent the tail end of what we laughingly call summer up here watching all the Val Lewton films, they were masterpieces on a shoe string.
Shanerjedi,
Thanks for that. God forbid anyone takes what I'm saying the wrong way, the last thing I'm doing here is insulting anyone on the forum. Quite the opposite really; there is so much enthusiasm here and some very talented people, that I just think a little pragmatism is needed sometimes. As you say, new mattes, dialogue changes, cuts here and there, and some new FX are all possible, as Ady and others have shown. I was just referring to those mock-ups which I have serious doubts about the practicality of achieving.
Ady,
I know you were talking about the attitude, and I agree with the positivity. But positivity should always be tempered with a pragmatic view of what is achievable (or achievable to a level that would be considered an improvement in the case of fan edits).
Bingowings,
I also like those seminal groups of people and it's work they produced which inspired me to do what I do now. But we are not those people here, and trust me when I say there is absolutely nothing we can do with our resources that hasn't been done already. Sure, we might make a creative choice that others may have considered and not pursued, but technically speaking, we have no means to be ground breaking.
The time for pragmatism is when you have really tried to do something, you can't get it to work and there are other things to do if you are going to hit a deadline.
In a sense there is no deadline here.
Ady will, I'm sure make a great stab at improving ROTJ:SE and that will come out when he is satisfied he has done all that he can do but that's not the end of it for the rest of us.
There will be plenty of our ideas he won't want to do or just can't and maybe a few of his that not everyone will be happy with.
We have something that no Hollywood studio can hope for, all the time in the world.
The perfect Star Wars saga is, pragmatically impossible (you can't make everyone happy) but attempting to get there will lead to a lot more fun and success than not.
