Info & Ideas: ESB and ROTJ Wishlist — Page 160

Bingowings said:

The way I pictured it was the largest details would be projected from the points around the frame and the smaller details would be projected from points on the table. The rising frame being the focal point.

This would match in a bit with Angel's earlier mockup of the room as a command centre where the room becomes bathed in an amber light because it's mostly showing the Death Star and some of the capital ships too :

I found this.

Interesting, very OT like and balanced between two sagas.

-Angel

Looks like it's from one of the various encyclopeadias....I could be wrong...

A star wars cardgame i think. Galaxies if im correct

-Angel

Darth Venal said:

ladyferry said:

Darth Venal said:

 

Here goes. Bingo, I thickened up the trees for you :-)  It did look a bit too pretty, like a park. While I don't think all planets should look the same all over, I don't want to vary it too much. So, slightly more foresty. I also tried making the planet bigger but it didn't look right.

 

That is truly beautiful, I would go there on my hols if it was real!

 

Thanks. I wouldn't mind that myself. Looks like a weekend in Brighton again for me :-( 

 

It reminds me of where I come from in Scotland (apart from the gorgeous planet in the sky), oh the memories...

Hey guys ive just been thinkin about Boba escaping the Sarlacc, as he rolls in maybe an explosion or a gun shot could go off, i have made a mock up to give an example.

Original:

Edited:

Some enhancements to the holos. Not entire happy because of the crappy quality.

Also replaced luke's poor figure with a new subtle one and the saber is in the correct position.

-Angel

cap said:

That’s all for now.  More another day.

OK, it’s another day.

About the previous post: on further reflection, that “flashback to TESB” idea was pretty lame.  I still would like to get rid of Ben’s “hidden from your father” dialog, but replacing it with a flashback is not the way to do it.

Now on to new material.

 

• Continuing on the “too slow” theme discussed in my earlier post wrt the Sarlacc pit:
  
  When Leia falls off her speeder, the Imperial stormtrooper looks back.  Then when he looks forward again he realizes he’s on a collision course with a tree stump, spends a full second screaming but makes no attempt to alter course or bail out, then collides.
  
  It’s as if Lucas needs to be absolutely certain the viewer has enough time before the collision to register the fact that the trooper is now on a collision course.  I don’t know whether it’s because ROTJ was made with very young children in mind, because ROTJ was made with severely retarded very young children in mind, or because ROTJ was made with George Lucas in mind, but it was clearly made with the mindset that the viewer would not be able to follow the action if it happened at a more natural pace.
  
  The trooper should face forward and then immediately collide.  No time to scream.  Or if there is time to scream, it should be a quarter of a second at most.
  
   
• Similarly, when Wicket strikes a trooper and the trooper looks down, goes “What the…?” and then just kind of freezes for a moment.  I guess it’s to make sure the viewer has enough time to register the fact that the trooper has been surprised and distracted.  Like the viewer would be lost if Leia reacted immediately when the trooper looked away.
  
  For that matter, the trooper shouldn’t be surprised, because he has already taken a shot at Leia and Wicket.  Unless he wasn’t looking where he was shooting, he already knows the Ewok is there.  Would it be possible to reedit the sequence so that Wicket hides before the shot is fired?  Or even to eliminate that pointless blaster shot altogether?
  
  BTW, if it were still possible to make changes to ANH:R, I’d get rid of the “Only Imperial stormtroopers are so precise” line.  Imperial stormtroopers can’t shoot for shit.
  
  
  
•  

• VADER: A small Rebel force has penetrated the shield and landed on Endor.
  
  EMPEROR: Yes, I know,
  
  VADER: My son is with them.
  
  EMPEROR: Are you sure?
  
  VADER: I have felt him, my master.
  
  EMPEROR: Strange that I have not.  I wonder if your feelings on this matter are clear, Lord Vader.
  
  VADER:  They are clear, my master.
  
  EMPEROR: Then you must go to the centurion moon and wait for him.
  
  VADER: He will come to me?
  
  EMPEROR: I have foreseen it.  His compassion for you will be his undoing.  He will come to you and then you will bring him before me.
  
  VADER: As you wish.

  
  I don’t see why the Emperor would point out his own failure to sense Luke.  It would be better to skip from “I have felt him, my master” to “Then you must go…”
  
  For that matter, consider removing the explicit references to what the Emperor does foresee wrt Luke.  We don’t need a running play-by-play telling us that the Emperor does foresee this, and does not foresee that.  Tighten up the dialog a little like so:
  

  VADER: A small Rebel force has penetrated the shield and landed on Endor.
  
  EMPEROR: Yes, I know,
  
  VADER: My son is with them.
  
  EMPEROR: Are you sure?
  
  VADER: I have felt him, my master.
  
  EMPEROR: Then you must go to the centurion moon and wait for him.  His compassion for you will be his undoing.  He will come to you and then you will bring him before me.
  
  VADER: As you wish.

  
  One can imagine the thinking that led to the wordier version.  “We can’t just have the Emperor say, ‘He will come to you.’  The viewer will be confused.  He won’t understand how the Emperor could possibly know that.  We’d better tell him that the Emperor has foreseen it.”  Lucas apparently has a very low opinion of anybody who watches his movies.
  
  BTW, the background starfield seems to be moving much too quickly.  What’s the rotational period of the Death Star, ten minutes?
  
   
• “Hurry up, will ya?  I haven’t got all day.”  *groan*
  
   
• Leia remembering her birth mother.  I’ve seen many attempts to explain away this continuity error; none of them are convincing.  Can we just skip this dialog and start the conversation with “Luke, tell me, what’s troubling you?”
  
   
• “Could you tell Luke, is that who you could tell?”  This pathetically insecure guy is not Han Solo.  You can almost see Harrison Ford thinking, “George, you can type this shit...”  Also, Carrie Fisher’s acting during this exchange is really, really terrible.  This may be my least favorite moment in the entire saga.  I hate to say “cut the whole scene,” but... cut the whole scene.
  
   
• “I see you have constructed a new lightsaber.”  That’s Ric’s line!!!
  
   
• “It is too late for me, son.”  I think this line actually undercuts the tension of the moment, and the scene would work better if we just skipped it:
  

  LUKE: I feel the conflict within you.  Let go of your hate.
  
  VADER: [gestures to guards] The Emperor will show you the true nature of the Force.  He is your master now.

  
  
   
• “An entire legion of my best troops awaits them.”  Random thought:  If those are the Emperor’s best troops, an entire legion of his worst troops must be a truly hilarious sight to behold.
  
   
• “You Rebel scum.”  Random thought: that campy line was probably the highlight of that actor’s career.
  
   
• Random thought: Imperial stormtrooper armor does not protect the wearer against blaster fire, thrown rocks, clubs wielded by teddy bears, or wooden arrows.  What, exactly, is it for?  Decoration?
  
   
• “Freeze!  Don’t move!”  I’m not going to bother listing examples of spectacular incompetence by the stormtroopers in this battle, but this one particular moment is really awful.  First of all, what are these troopers trying to do?  Take prisoners?  In the middle of this battle?  And because they can’t see Leia’s hands, they assume she must be unarmed?  What, when the Emperor ran out of Jango Fett clones he started using Greedo clones?  And how does Leia manage to take out both of them while only firing one shot?
  
   
• When Vader is searching for Luke and says, “If you will not turn to the dark side, then perhaps she will,” Luke screams “NO!!!” before attacking Vader.  If Luke is seriously trying to kill Vader, it doesn’t seem like a great idea to scream and alert him to exactly when and where the attack is coming from.  Either get rid of the scream, or edit it so that the scream is simultaneous with the start of engagement and doesn’t serve as a warning.
  
  I can picture Lucas thinking, “I’d better have Luke scream here, because if I don’t, the kind of imbecile who would watch my movie won’t understand that Luke is angry.  And I’d better give the viewer a couple of seconds to register the fact that Luke is angry before dueling actually commences, because he’ll be totally confused otherwise.”  It’s hard to believe that Lucas had that low an opinion of people who watch his movies, but there’s no other explanation for some of the creative decisions made in this film.  (Some of this may have been Marquand’s doing, too.  I dunno.)
  
   
• “Lock onto the strongest power source.  It should be the power generator.”  Is there any way we could get Ric to say that line?
  
   
• “Concentrate all fire on that Super Star Destroyer.”  It takes two shots to take out the deflector and one out out-of-control fighter colliding with the bridge.  If that’s all it takes, it should have been done a long time ago.
  
   
• “All right.  I understand.  Fine.  When he comes back, I won’t get in the way.”  There’s Insecure Han again.  Ford must have hated this.
  
   
• Any way we could restore the original dialog?
  

  LEIA:  You know how I told you I was adopted and never knew anything about my birth parents?  I just found out last night that Luke is my twin brother.
  
  HAN:  Brother?  Wow.  That’s amazing.  Do you know who your parents were?
  
  LEIA:  Uh...  Let’s talk about that some other time.
  
  HAN:  What?  What aren’t you telling me?
  
  LEIA:  Nothing.  Don’t worry about it.
  
  HAN:  Shit.  I knew it.  I knocked up my nanny when I was nine, didn’t I?  She told me she was on the pill, but nooooo.........

• Celebrations all across the galaxy.  Just because Death Star II was destroyed and the Emperor presumed killed doesn’t mean the Empire vanished in an instant and you can celebrate the Emperor’s death on Coruscant without getting shot.
  
   
• I have to admit, I actually like Yub Nub and wouldn’t mind having it put back in.
  
   
• Hayden Christensen.  ’Nuff said.

• One final thought:  We know from the EU that the Emperor was using the Force to support the Imperial Fleet in the battle raging outside the Death Star, and his death changed the outcome of that battle.  That’s an appealing idea.  I don’t like the notion that the role of the Chosen One was to kill the Emperor who otherwise would have... died a few minutes later when the Death Star blew up.  Is there any way to hint at this idea in the movie?

cap said: 

 

• Any way we could restore the original dialog?
  

  LEIA:  You know how I told you I was adopted and never knew anything about my birth parents?  I just found out last night that Luke is my twin brother.
  
  HAN:  Brother?  Wow.  That’s amazing.  Do you know who your parents were?
  

Convenient ;) SWWR said.

-Angel

Lol! The cylon vader!

Cap, this was one of the best explanations of ROTJ failures, thank you for that. "This is not Han Solo" was Kershner's sentence as well, after Ford said "I love you too" in the Bespin carbon chamber. So it was changed to "I know".

Obviously Marquand was not that kind of director. I've seen "The eye of the Needle" and it had too much overblown drama in details so every idiot could understand it as well.

Reading your post I just tried to think, well how can anybody fix this big issues? They are not cosmetics any more. And Ady said that "Jedi is going to be a mess". It really is, but I hope...still...

I saw Jedi first when I was 14. Then I was annoyed with Ewoks. Later I noticed that actors are talking to each other like they are in the middle of a big american city having ordinary day there, exept they wear strange wardrobe.

Why did this happen on Jedi and didn't on Empire? Was Marquand taking it all too lightly?

Why is the movie looking like "OK, everybody! I know the last one was seriously dramatic but now let's have some great fun! Hahaha! War can be really fun! Everybody shoots, but nobody dies because it's ... the fun show and y'know, it's only a movie! Hahaha"

And I would really like to read any kind of statement of Ady regarding this problems, if a great man is not too busy...

Greets to everyone here

Also, there is another big issue: the ROTJ looks. In ESB almost every shot was a small state of art ( d.o.p. Peter Suschitzky). If you pause every single frame there is beauty in composing a picture, very often there is an object in front and an action going in the rest of screen space behind. Look Luke hanging in the cave or Vader entering distroyed rebel base! Cam is moving backwards, hiding behind distroyed elements, impersonating a scared child that audience instinctivly becomes.

Alan Hume's directing a photography in ROTJ is VERY ordinary so to say, like boring, we see a lot of big clean pictures without any suggestions or mistery. And it is konsequent troughout the whole movie.

So if you change some parts of it to more dramatic coloring with newly composed parts of the picture, they're going to stand out immensly from the rest of the movie.

So one should change it ALL or none to keep the photography continuity. No? Any suggestions?

Bad photography in ROTJ? You tell me :P

I agree with you! As far im concerned about the framing of a shot in ROTJ you can cleary see that is most centered and lack of depth. I will focus on that laterz :)

-Angel