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Info: Guide for Working with 4K HDR Blu-ray Rips in SDR — Page 2

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In the screenshots you posted I don’t see where you select 10bit. How do you know it’s being processed as 10bit?
It could still be processing it as 8bit but then saving it in a 10bit ProRes file. It would only be 8bit info but in a 10bit wrapper.

That’s why I prefer command line because you have complete control of the workflow.

If it outputs a ffmpeg log file you can confirm its workflow with that.

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oohteedee said:

In the screenshots you posted I don’t see where you select 10bit. How do you know it’s being processed as 10bit?
It could still be processing it as 8bit but then saving it in a 10bit ProRes file. It would only be 8bit info but in a 10bit wrapper.

That’s why I prefer command line because you have complete control of the workflow.

If it outputs a ffmpeg log file you can confirm its workflow with that.

That’s super smart. And you may be right. I’m fairly certain that doing it this way in Hybrid preserves the 10bit during the entire process though. If it didn’t, then I’d be seeing the artifacting that Harmy was seeing when he did the conversion in Media Encoder, as well as the artifacting seen in MPV. But the Hybrid conversion is totally clean. The input file is 10bit, the output file is 10bit, and there’s no artifacting at all. So I’m pretty positive it stayed as 10bit the whole time. But you’re right, knowing that for certain is definitely great. I might have to read up on how to do the command line. But for now, Hybrid gets the job done for me. (Especially with my original workflow of rewrapping to MP4 and then doing the ProRes conversion in Resolve. That definitely preserves the 10bit). 🙂

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OK, I’m testing the command line now - we’ll see tomorrow, I guess 😃

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Just to clarify the command I posted said ”tonemapped” for the output file but it is not tonemapped with that command. It will be HDR ProRes.

I have edited my previous post to remove the word tonemapped.

I tonemap in my final Resolve project.

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NOTE: This guide has now been updated with additional information regarding converting to ProRes inside of FFmpeg rather than Resolve, to cater to users who don’t have the paid version of Resolve. Thanks for everyone who has contributed in this comment section!

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Just a hypothetical - if one used a LUT on an adjustment layer above everything and then graded everything so that it looks good with the LUT and then exported a 10bit file without the LUT, could this be used as HDR output?

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Harmy said:

Just a hypothetical - if one used a LUT on an adjustment layer above everything and then graded everything so that it looks good with the LUT and then exported a 10bit file without the LUT, could this be used as HDR output?

Theoretically, yes, as long as the export is flagged as HDR. This can be done in Resolve under the color management settings.

However, when producing HDR content, in order for it to be worthwhile, it needs to be created using an actual HDR monitor. Otherwise the film could end up looking fine in SDR, but then looks totally different than intended in HDR. (You’d basically be doing an HDR grade blindly).

While decent SDR monitors for content creation are relatively cheap these days, monitors for HDR content creation are still very expensive - like the Sony X300 or the FSI XM310X. Although some prosumer displays are starting to get pretty good - like the ASUS ProArt PA32UCX and the Apple Pro Display XDR. (Still expensive though).

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Harmy said:

OK, I see 😃

That workflow is a great way to future-proof your work though! If you used that workflow (doing all the grading underneath the LUT), then your entire grade would be preserved within that flat, logrithmic color space, which could then be used to create an HDR output in the future with minimal effort (after reference-caliber HDR monitors come down in price).

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Harmy said:

Just a hypothetical - if one used a LUT on an adjustment layer above everything and then graded everything so that it looks good with the LUT and then exported a 10bit file without the LUT, could this be used as HDR output?

No. When you turn off the tonemap LUT the colours would be off because it is HDR with SDR adjustments. You would need to convert your SDR adjustments to HDR for it to work. Even then without an HDR monitor you don’t know how it’s going to look until it’s fully rendered and viewed in HDR on your TV.

Really you need to do your adjustments in HDR with a proper monitor for it to work well.

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oohteedee said:

Harmy said:

Just a hypothetical - if one used a LUT on an adjustment layer above everything and then graded everything so that it looks good with the LUT and then exported a 10bit file without the LUT, could this be used as HDR output?

Even then without an HDR monitor you don’t know how it’s going to look until it’s fully rendered and viewed in HDR on your TV.

Really you need to do your adjustments in HDR with a proper monitor for it to work well.

Exactly.

Theoretically, you “can,” but it certainly wouldn’t produce a great result. Monitoring in HDR is a must if you want to master in HDR.

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Harmy said:

I just noticed 44rh1n already provided some LUTs in his post, so I’ll try those.

Now that I have the Star Wars UHD Blu-ray in my hands, I’ve been able to create a new LUT tailored specifically for the film. (The previous two LUTs were simply technical transforms from Rec2020 to Rec709, whereas this new one is a technical transform with some creative adjustments specific for the film’s grade).

Mainly, I got rid of the magenta tint, and adjusted the curve so it’s not so dim. I think it looks really nice, and captures the essence of Star Wars. You’re welcome to use it as a starting point if you’d like.

It’s available in the same folder as the other two, here. It’s the one called “Rec2020ToRec709_CSTCreativeSW.cube.” I’ve also included the .drx file, which is the custom node tree I made in Resolve to create this LUT, so you can tweak it to your own liking if preferred.

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Also, I think Premiere itself might be part of the artifact problem you’ve been having. Turns out Premiere sequences default to 8bit.

  1. My LUT applied in Resolve (how it’s supposed to look):

  1. My LUT applied in Premiere, default sequence settings:

So you have to go into Sequence Settings, and check the “Maximum Bit Depth” checkbox in order for it to display in 10bit. Then the artifacts should disappear.

  1. My LUT applied in Premiere with Maximum Bit Depth checked:

And when you export, you have to check the “Maximum Bit Depth” checkbox in the export window as well. Pretty strange IMO. Not sure why Premiere requires so many extra steps.

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I wish Premiere had more robust color management options (or any color management options, for that matter). It’s a great NLE, but it really struggles color-wise.

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Quick question.

How are you guys getting hybrid to work on the mac? The author quit supporting mac two years ago. I tried it but it crashes on startup. I’m running the latest macos.

Thanks,

"You were so preoccupied with whether or not you could...you never stopped to think if you should." - Ian Malcolm, Jurassic Park
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Thank you for this. It’ll be very helpful.

I have a question. I want to take a UHD and edit the film. I want to keep the grading that it was released with, but do my edit, and be able to output the edited version with identical grading from the source, but with the new edit.

This used to be as easy as making an MKV of the film, converting it to ProRES, and then outputting a new ProRES after the edit. NOW when I try this, the color is washed out and completely off, and I believe I lose the HDR grading entirely.

I really appreciate the direction to process the MKV to ProRES 444, that’s good… but I still see it with the ungraded look. Is there a way to extract a LUT from the MKV?

Thanks so much for your help.

Before “Intentional Creative Decisions”!!! it was “…A certain point of view”???

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Anyone have any ideas about my above question? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?

I appreciate the whole thread and it’s good to know color range is preserved, but my edits look washed out and not at all near the original color correction.

(THANKS)

Before “Intentional Creative Decisions”!!! it was “…A certain point of view”???

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CorellianSmuggler said:

Thank you for this. It’ll be very helpful.

I have a question. I want to take a UHD and edit the film. I want to keep the grading that it was released with, but do my edit, and be able to output the edited version with identical grading from the source, but with the new edit.

This used to be as easy as making an MKV of the film, converting it to ProRES, and then outputting a new ProRES after the edit. NOW when I try this, the color is washed out and completely off, and I believe I lose the HDR grading entirely.

I really appreciate the direction to process the MKV to ProRES 444, that’s good… but I still see it with the ungraded look. Is there a way to extract a LUT from the MKV?

Thanks so much for your help.

The color is “washed out” and “completely off” because it’s a Rec.2020 source, but your video editing application is assuming it’s a Rec.709 source. What software do you use to edit?

If you want to preserve the original HDR grading without making any modifications, then it should look washed out on your SDR display. That’s normal. And then in your timeline and export settings, you need to specify that it’s Rec.2020 ST2084 so that it doesn’t default to exporting in Rec.709.

This is a simple color management setting in DaVinci Resolve.

In other common editing programs, unfortunately, it’s complicated and sometimes not even possible to specify your timeline and output color space and gamma. So I recommend DaVinci Resolve for that reason.

HDR video will always look washed out on an SDR screen unless it’s being tonemapped. So when you’ve exported your film, you can try playing it in VLC or MPV to see it with the tonemapped colors. (Or just simply play it on an HDR TV).

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44rh1n said:
The color is “washed out” and “completely off” because it’s a Rec.2020 source, but your video editing application is assuming it’s a Rec.709 source. What software do you use to edit?

I’m using DaVinci Resolve. However, my 4k footage was converted to Rec.709 following the above proceedures. Is there a way to make it properly identified as Rec.2020 or do I need to alter the ProRES encoding to reencode it to be Rec.2020 before editing? I’d prefer to just have the ffmpeg conversion I already made in Rec.709 be seen as Rec.2020 and be output as Rec.2020 correctly.

I’m editing on an iMacPro, so I have a HDR (although not top specs) screen and can playback MKV’s with HDR with color intact.

If you want to preserve the original HDR grading without making any modifications, then it should look washed out on your SDR display. That’s normal. And then in your timeline and export settings, you need to specify that it’s Rec.2020 ST2084 so that it doesn’t default to exporting in Rec.709.

I did try this with the ffmpeg generated Rec.709 prores files, output as Rec.2020 ST2084 (I believe) and again, washed out, or even worse than before.

This is a simple color management setting in DaVinci Resolve.

I’ve now matched to your example above.

In other common editing programs, unfortunately, it’s complicated and sometimes not even possible to specify your timeline and output color space and gamma. So I recommend DaVinci Resolve for that reason.

For UHD/4k work, I’ll always use DaVinci Resolve for this reason and others.

HDR video will always look washed out on an SDR screen unless it’s being tonemapped. So when you’ve exported your film, you can try playing it in VLC or MPV to see it with the tonemapped colors. (Or just simply play it on an HDR TV).

I’ve tried the output using VLC, and the results are still washed out, but I believe this is because Resolve is still reading the ffmpeg ProRes conversions as Rec.709. Is there a way, and it is the proper equivelent, to have Resolve see them as Rec.2020 instead, and is the Rec.2020 range still in the files converted by the ffmpeg system presented in this thead.

My goal is to the find a way to either output my edit back to a HDR UHD disc, or a HDR compatible file that I can play on a HDR 4k TV.

Thank you SO much for your help! I really want to just work this whole thing out… 😉

Before “Intentional Creative Decisions”!!! it was “…A certain point of view”???