@TServo2049: Yep, everything so far is pointing at the home video color timing being the same as theatrical.
But just wait until they make a blu-ray re-release like with T1, and people all over the web will say that it was originally teal and orange. :)
The version we've created here will be more than enough for many years to come though.
You_Too said:
But just wait until they make a blu-ray re-release like with T1, and people all over the web will say that it was originally teal and orange. :)
Please don't tell me people actually believe that.
You_Too said:
@TServo2049: Yep, everything so far is pointing at the home video color timing being the same as theatrical.
But just wait until they make a blu-ray re-release like with T1, and people all over the web will say that it was originally teal and orange. :)
The version we've created here will be more than enough for many years to come though.
I am very much looking forward to your version, but more I want a new 4k scan corrected to the original timing used here
dvdmike said:
I am very much looking forward to your version, but more I want a new 4k scan corrected to the original timing used here
Of course. Who doesn't? :)
But we've all seen which road James Cameron goes down each time one of his films are re-released these days. Aliens, Terminator, Titanic...
Oh I know, but the master is the issue here.
It was always a hot mess
Wasnt aware that Cameron had an habit to tinker with his movies.
Is there any article or comparaisons somewhere about this?
btw i hope that the two team blu ready release are T1/2 :)
olbertfrog said:
Wasnt aware that Cameron had an habit to tinker with his movies.
Is there any article or comparaisons somewhere about this?
btw i hope that the two team blu ready release are T1/2 :)
Sorry to tell you but it is not those 2, we are still a ways off from these, both video files are done but the audio and extras are not.
Thanks for the confirmation.
All in due times :)
Oh boy. I am beyond confused at this point. More than 1 person or persons working on T1 and T2 here on this site, someone already released another edit of T1 on tehparadox. Of which he has a few versions as well, and who knows what's going on at fanedit.org.
Ok look, all I want it the best blu-ray version of T1 available with the proper color timing and the original mono mix. What is, or will be the best edit to get these things? Thanks!!
Based on Team Blu previous work i think you can just wait for their release and you will be golden :)
Thats what im gonna do :)
olbertfrog said:
Wasnt aware that Cameron had an habit to tinker with his movies.
Is there any article or comparaisons somewhere about this?
Here you go. Basically they're new vs old releases comparisons that clearly shows the difference in colors.
It's also worth mentioning that Aliens and Titanic got some things removed or added by CGI in the latest releases. Haven't found anything for Terminator so far.
The worst thing is that the latest releases have far superior resolution than all before but having the wrong colors, fans can't choose between original and altered. Sure, there's the old blu-ray of Terminator but the picture is blurry and full of dirt, and there are HDTV broadcast captures of Aliens and Titanic but they're compressed.
I don't know what it is about the blu-ray era that made previously respected directors go back and change their most popular works. There are way too many examples. Maybe they don't think people will buy the same movies again unless they look different? Different being new in the eyes of mainstream consumers?
Thank you for this :)
Wow i would have never expected this from Cameron especially the modification in ALIENS.
You_Too said:
I don't know what it is about the blu-ray era that made previously respected directors go back and change their most popular works. There are way too many examples. Maybe they don't think people will buy the same movies again unless they look different? Different being new in the eyes of mainstream consumers?
I know some people are gonna think I'm overdoing it, but I'm gonna say it anyway. To me, directors going back and changing and "fixing" their movies when new technology is available is the equivalent of if all artists could come back to life and re-do their most famous works. Paintings, statues, books, music, and movies. Like if we brought them all back to life every 100 years or so and they went and altered their works.
And if that's too much of a stretch since said directors are still alive when they modify their films, then how about this: Directors altering their films with new technology is the equivalent of if the famous artists went back and re-did their work every 5-10 years while they were still alive.
To me, movies are art the same way the Mona Lisa is. They are our markers of the advancements of human history, as well as markers for what we thought of things as a species at that point in time. But letting future changes alter that, we alter history. And that's wrong.
To me, the racist story writing of the black centaur in Disney's fantasia being removed in order to not offend anyone is the equivalent of removing slavery from the history books.
However, because this is only movies we're talking about and not a period in time where people were treated lower than animals, I say if the directors wanna change their work that's fine. But for all that is good and holy, please give the consumer the OPTION to CHOOSE. Case in point: Would anyone REALLY hate the SW specials editions if their original counterparts were there alongside them?
TylerDurden389 said:
But for all that is good and holy, please give the consumer the OPTION to CHOOSE.
Exactly. I agree that altering history is wrong, and when altering movies we should indeed have the option to choose.
TylerDurden389 said:
Would anyone REALLY hate the SW specials editions if their original counterparts were there alongside them?
Not hate, but never watch them either. :)
This whole thing reminds me of Aliens. While the new Blu-ray does indeed look fantastic overall (proper credit to the team who worked on it for this), having superb levels of detail and being clear and sharp, and not messed up with DNR, I noticed a problem. Where is the blue at night and in dark areas? In at least some scenes, if not the whole movie, the quite noticeable blue that's always there at night is gone or at least greatly reduced.
It was quite shocking when I realized it, the blue was suddenly just missing. I'm not talking teal, but the normal real blue color timing that Cameron is known for in night scenes. I'm a fan of this blue-grey night time look that he uses, plus it's part of the atmosphere and feel of the movie, and it's the original timing, so it should be left that way. Without it, the movie loses something, it's too...neat, clean, the night has less depth and texture to it, and that loss definitely affects the feel of the movie.
It's ironic that all these various movies are being messed up with this bizarre inexplicable teal/cyan obsession some directors are showing lately, and in this movie he takes *away* the natural original blue that's supposed to be there. Arggh... just leave it alone! Or release two versions, same quality, but one timed correctly and one experimental color timing, or whatever. It's a shame, too, because the movie looks so great on the new Blu-ray set. The blue color timing just needs to be restored to the appropriate scenes and it would be about perfect in terms of picture quality. Until they do a full-scale restoration, based on new 6k scans of the negative or something like that, I don't think we'll get a better looking one any time soon. But hopefully at least a correctly color timed one at some point.
The Star Wars trilogy. There can be only one.
The distinctive blue look in Cameron's films was never "natural", it was always added or pumped up in the lab. As we've pointed out, if you watch the trailers for T2, you can see a lot of scenes with their original colors, as filmed. (Examples: Arnold and John on the motorcycle, the hospital chase, the Cyberdyne shootout.)
I thought Aliens was scanned from the original negatives, meaning that the color timing, which was done at an intermediate stage, did not exist in the scan and had to be done over from scratch. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)
But just because the "blue" color timing was done at a later stage doesn't make it any less legitimate - those were Cameron's original color choices, and him altering them is IMO just as bad as Vittorio Storaro's insistence on cropping his own Panavision compositions to his now-preferred 2:1 ratio. We still can't get The Last Emperor in its original AR just because its cinematographer has gone insane...but I digress.
Point is, I think the industry has almost become too deferential to the wishes of the filmmaker, in the here and now, rather than what they put down on film then. Lucas with Star Wars, Cimino with Heaven's Gate, Coppola with Apocalypse Now (thank goodness he eventually relented, and also that Storaro's reframing decision was finally overruled)...I shudder to think what might have happened if Ridley Scott had insisted that the Final Cut of Blade Runner be the only available version...
That's not to say the studios can't make awful decisions on their own (because they certainly do), but I wonder whether, if the filmmakers weren't involved, some of these films might have had releases which looked more authentic to the theatrical presentations...
@TServo2049: I completely agree. And I also wonder why guys like James Cameron who has been doing this for so many years suddenly becomes a fan of this teal/cyan color timing.
Actually, it would be awesome if somebody would make like a documentary and go around and interview all the filmmakers about why they like teal/cyan and why they decide their old films should be changed to it. I would LOVE to know what they think is positive about that. The teal/cyan thing remains a mystery to me.
TServo2049: Exactly, when I say natural in this case, I'm referring to the fact that's it the intended look of the film, it's the original color timing of the film and it's always looked like that and gives it a very distinctive tone and feel. Now it doesn't feel right, it doesn't ruin the movie, but it really has a big affect on the look and feel of it.
You_Too: I've thought the same thing before, the more of this I see, the more I begin hoping that the directors will *not* be involved in the release of movies on Blu-ray, as they increasingly tend to screw them up. I think if the studios handled them, while you might not get the same overall quality you might get with the director being involved (for example, the studio carelessly applying DNR in some cases), at least you wouldn't get these weird alterations that shouldn't be happening in the first place. The studios would just keep it simple and release the theatrical version on Blu-ray and call it a day.
Hmm, maybe one day someone skilled in the techniques of color correction will restore the proper degree of blue to those scenes in Aliens... ;)
The Star Wars trilogy. There can be only one.
Don't bother watching all 7 and a half minutes (unless you like this sort of commentary) but this guy points out the teal-orange contrast obsession, but only in reference to movie posters, not the entire films' color timing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXJiBkFgprQ
Sorry, the option to "insert link" won't highlight when I rollover it with the cursor.
Today a got an older german DVD release of the theatrical cut. The DVD is from 1998, three years befor the THX Extended Edition was avaible. It only has german audio, and is non anamorphic widescreen. Quality is not the best, but it may be interesting.
I took one cap from the THX remastered SE and the old DVD to compare-
New DVD: https://www.dropbox.com/s/q59fi8864kfdidn/vlcsnap-2014-01-07-16h02m54s250.png
Old DVD: https://www.dropbox.com/s/gzlo7ptflr4cfp8/vlcsnap-2014-01-07-16h02m58s137.png
It seem to have some slight differences in coloring...
"I kill Gandalf." - Igor, Dork Tower
@TylerDurden389: I watched the whole clip and that guy has a lot of good points.
@MrBrown: Would you post some more shot comparisons? Not only ones that are blue. You see I think this is a classic hue error, like I've seen on some LD vs DVD comparisons. If it had been a different color timing I think Arnold's skin would've looked more natural, not just another hue.
You_Too said:
...
@MrBrown: Would you post some more shot comparisons? Not only ones that are blue. You see I think this is a classic hue error, like I've seen on some LD vs DVD comparisons. If it had been a different color timing I think Arnold's skin would've looked more natural, not just another hue.
Sure. Here the dropbox link to the T2 caps. Those with big bars are the one from the older disc, those with narrow bars are from the anamorphic new disc. Both were taken with VLC under same settings.
"I kill Gandalf." - Igor, Dork Tower
@MrBrown: Interesting, since in some scenes the color timing is just different and doesn't look like a hue error.
You_Too said:
@MrBrown: Interesting, since in some scenes the color timing is just different and doesn't look like a hue error.
If the DVD would have been anamorphic, I would say on some scenes it has a better quality than the newer Extended Edition...
...maybe I find a way to get the Videostream for analysis purpose ripped (into an anamorphic (for size) mpeg4 stream, and, if Team Blu is interested, bring that somehow into Team Blu hands.
"I kill Gandalf." - Igor, Dork Tower
Don't get too excited about this old transfer.
A lot of 80s/early 90s transfers looked very "neutralized", probably in order to read better on CRTs - for example, in early transfers of Empire, Hoth looked very white (more white than any extant print sources we've seen), and Yoda (and Dagobah in general) looked almost gray.
I'm wondering if this transfer also had a yellow boost so that the image would "read" better - the Carolco logo looks almost sepia-tone.
Not trying to pooh-pooh it - just saying that the Siskel and Ebert clips, which were during the theatrical release and thus clearly not timed for home video, have a much more pronounced blue cast in the night shots than that old DVD (possibly originally LD) transfer.