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Info: Any Interest In A Corrected 2004 DVD? (“Deliberate Creative Decisions” info)

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 (Edited)

As some of you may know, prior to the official release of the Star Wars DVD, I got hold of an advanced copy and found numerous errors related to the mix on the film now known as “Episode IV - A New Hope”. My very first findings on this disc can be found here. That post is about music this is missing from the DVD. I was later able to provide proof that this cue was missing, though some people chose to debate over that. Click that link and hear for yourself.

Going by memory, and then double checking myself, I wrote up this list of changes between the original mix and the all new mix heard on the DVD. As you can see, there are quite a few alterations done to this film beyond all of the apparent visual changes. I then further scrutinized the new mix and posted some more sound clips demonstrating flaws. They can be found here and here. Keep in mind, I did all of this before the disc was even released and while being criticized for being too nit picky. Some people would go on to say I don’t even like Star Wars, a ridiculous claim. I love Star Wars, I don’t like what it’s become.

Getting back to the sound issues on this disc, while doing another spot check during a scene (the fight with the TIE fighters) I noticed something that could not be intentional. I was watching the scene in 5.1 surround sound and I noticed some wierd placement of the instruments in the surround channels. Growing up listening to classical and soundtrack albums, I know aabout instrument placement, and what I was hearing was wrong. Violins should be heard on the left. They were coming from the front left, which is correct, but also from the back right, which is totally incorrect. For a moment I thought it was a wiring issue in my home theater, but the sound effects all matched the on-screen placement and a quick pink noise check confirmed this. This was no wiring issue. This was a mistake, plain and simple! I started writing about this error wherever I could. I was hoping that someone at Fox or Lucasfilm would confirm the mistake and possibly re-issue the set with corrected audio. The news even made it to the Internet Movie Database.

The website The Digital Bits posted all of my findings but, but did not give me any credit. They were able to get a statement from Lucasfilm, the day before this disc was released. Here it is in full:

“We are always impressed with how closely fans listen to the many different sound mixes we have made for the Star Wars movies over the years. It is flattering to know that, indeed, the audience is listening. Consequently, each mix comes out differently and any changes that you hear on the all-new Dolby Digital 5.1 Surround EX tracks on the Star Wars Trilogy DVD set are deliberate creative decisions. We can confirm that there are no technical glitches as reported.”

 
After that, The Digital Bits stopped returning my e-mails and I still don’t have any credit at their site or even a special thanks in their Star Wars review, even though all of the findings there were put into their revised review well after I initially posted all of my notes and samples. The dates in my posts don’t lie. Neither do the e-mails I have saved.

As you can see, I think the current DVD is a mess and a disgrace to the name Star Wars. Recently I was sent a DVD. A DVD that everyone should have. The DVD that should have been released in the first place. This DVD includes the sparkling new 16x9 picture transfer made for the 2004 DVDs. It also includes a Dolby Digital 5.1 track, but not the error filled mix found on the current DVD. Instead, this soundtrack is the 1997 remix heard theatrically in 1997 when the film was rereleased for it’s 20th anniversary. It’s single layer and the sync is perfect. I’ve offered to give a copy to Rikter Blacksvn, he just wanted to know if there is any interest in this. I realize this isn’t the original version of the film but a correct sounding version of this movie should be in every Star Wars fans collection.

So, is anyone interested in this?

Neil

Well at least the reversed surround channels have been addressed.

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I, for one, very much am. It'll give a nice start to de-SEing Star Wars from the current DVDs, albeit a small step. So yes, I'm interested. Anyone else?

I used to be very active on this forum. I’m not really anymore. Hi everybody. You’re all awesome. Keep up the good work.

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I'm interested too. Like ReverendBeastly said, it will give a good start to de-SEing the current dvds.
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To quote Luke in "Return Of The Jedi", I'm with you too! Count me in!!!

“Hear you nothing that I say?”
-Yoda

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I am always up for adding another version to my collection, especially when it corrects someone else's mistake.

“Good… Bad… I’m the guy with the gun.”

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I am guessing this 5.1 mix was taken from the 1997 LD set..?
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Yes.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Good. Then the damn Krayt dragon call ought to be fixed too (it was fine in the '97 mix).

Moll.

"Right now the coffees are doing their final work." (Airi, Masked Rider Den-o episode 1)

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The Krayt Dragon call is correct, as is Vader's voice. The music is present during the Death Star dive and not mixed incorrectly throughout the entire film.

Neil

Well at least the reversed surround channels have been addressed.

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I find this very interesting, but I myself am not interested in this; however I posted to say I never minded the "new" Vader voice; in fact I always hated the fact that it is completely different from the other movies. However, I believe in historical preservation *as well* as an artist's right to revise his work as long as the original isn't superceded by it, as Lucas is doing.

a trolling bantha

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Definitely interested.
"I don't mind if you don't like my manners. I don't like them myself. They're pretty bad. I grieve over them during the long winter evenings."
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Originally posted by: ChainsawAsh
I never minded the "new" Vader voice; in fact I always hated the fact that it is completely different from the other movies.

I love that Star Wars is different from the other movies. Every change Lucas makes to the movie to make it more in line with the rest of the films only validates what a unique and great movie it was. Plus, I just can't get used to the revised Vader voice. I heard it on the split screen disc the other day and it completely took me out of the movie.

Neil

Well at least the reversed surround channels have been addressed.

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I am guessing this 5.1 mix was taken from the 1997 LD set..?


Ah. So this is the same 5.1 mix that I mentioned a few weeks ago in another thread, and somebody answered back that the reason the 1997 audio should not be used was because it is (supposedly) little better than an upsampled 4.0 Surround Sound mix (at least that was the gist...)?

Neil, add me to the 'interested' column.



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Sign me up aswell, Im interesed to.....
Do, or do not. There is no try.
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Listen, do you smell that......?






<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Neil, I'm up for it. Furthermore, I can help to mux the audio back in for a DL version of the disc, replacing out the shoddy 5.1 track that currently exists. PM me with details. I'd also like the opportunity to use this mix on my forthcoming re-edit.

The Digital Bits hasn't responded to any of my findings either. I'm not too pleased with those guys. I empathize.

I'm assuming you've done extensive quality checking on this new mix and it sounds perfectly awesome?
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
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Originally posted by: Karyudo
So this is the same 5.1 mix that I mentioned a few weeks ago in another thread, and somebody answered back that the reason the 1997 audio should not be used was because it is (supposedly) little better than an upsampled 4.0 Surround Sound mix (at least that was the gist...)?

A 4 track printmaster was used to create this track, but it was the original 1977 printmaster. That's closer than what was used for the 2004 DVD, which in many ways sounds nothing like Star Wars. The mono surround channel was run through a Meridian Home THX processor to decorrolate the surrounds. Also spot effects were mixed in, so in the end it is a stereo surround channel. Just listen to the fight with the TIE fighters. They will circle around the listening room. The music is mono in the surrounds, so the horrible mix heard on the 2004 DVD is a non-issue.

The way this track was made, it has some hiss on it, but once you realize that it once again sounds like the Star Wars you are familiar with, it won't bother you.

Neil

Well at least the reversed surround channels have been addressed.

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<no message>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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This has now been added to my collection (I've had it for a while now but I was out of harddrive space)

And yes, a torrent is forthcoming maybe in a few months or less - please be patient gang I have MANY more torrents coming first and I try to release once every two weeks

“My skill are no longer as Mad as the once were” RiK

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sounds good. it would be nice if the sound was provided as a seperate ac3 file we could play with. it would be nice to have access to a properly mixed 5.1 from an official source material disc that wouldn't need to much screwing with to make it fit an original version of the film.

rikter if I was to mail you a disc or make some arrangement to get this thing would you be willing to burn a copy off for me?
When a woman says yes, she means no - when she says maybe, she means no.

http://www.auky37.dsl.pipex.com/falconlogo_web.jpg
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I gotta agree with Tellan. If the audio was provided as simply an ac3 file, it would be a much faster download and anyone with the original DVD could rip, and reburn with the new audio track or add it as a secondary audio track (both on the same disc, that would be nice).

Dr. M

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Sounds lovely, and sounds like a good first step to creating what I've been waiting for for far too long now ... a good laserdisc/2004 DVD hybrid edit (reconstructing the O-OT edition) with good sound.

Seems to be a touchy question on these boards, as the '04 DVD is considered too different in quality to mix with the LD etc ... yet I had absolutely no trouble doing so throughout my Deleted Magic DVD of ANH, and it all looked quite nice. (Check out my version of the Death Star trench run, in particular, and believe!) So ... pestering again. Do I have to do it myself? Tsk tsk ...