Sign In

Info: 1997 SE DV Broadcast Info & Discussion — Page 17

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Yes, Moth3r, that's what I was talking about. On the other hand, the 5 Star Set isn't worth looking into. I've read that the DTS was an awful 2.0 stereo upmix to 5.1 that was just encoded DTS; in fact, even the 5.1 from that set wasn't real if I remember correctly. Of course, I'd be more than happy to be wrong...

EDIT: Was there ever a camcorder bootleg of the '97 SE movies when they were in theaters? If so, the audio could be inserted, just to take up space as a bonus feature. It could be "THE CROWD EXPERIENCE."

Author
Time

Yay PCM! I've honestly noticed that it is more punchy than the lossy 5.1. And in Pro Logic with a sub it's not to different from the 5.1 soundfield.

From what I've heard about the 5 Star boots they were just claiming to have that DTS audio and were just crummy upmixes.

The DTS audio discs that pop up occasionally accompany 35mm prints because there is no DTS optical track. The disc has to be put into a DTS decoder and then run with the print which has a specially printed time code to sync with the audio. No one has ever cracked the encoding and you have to have all the necessary equipment plus a print of the film.

What would the quality of one of these be though? I figured something like DTS Laserdisc (and early DVD) which was about 1500-1600 kbp/s.

EDIT: found this on wiki:

In theatrical use, a proprietary 24-bit time code is optically imaged onto the film. An LED reader scans the timecode data from the film and sends it to the DTS processor, using the time code to synchronize the projected image with the DTS soundtrack audio. The multi-channel DTS audio is recorded in compressed form on standard CD-ROM media at a bitrate of 1,103 kbit/s. The audio compression used in the theatrical DTS system (which is very different and completely unrelated to the home Coherent Acoustics-based DTS Digital Surround format) is the APT-X100 system. Unlike the home version of DTS or any version of Dolby Digital, the APT-X100 system is fixed at a 4:1 compression ratio. Data reduction is accomplished via sub-band coding with linear prediction and adaptive quantization. The theatrical DTS processor acts as a transport mechanism, as it holds and reads the audio discs. When the DTS format was launched, it used one or two discs with later units holding three discs, thus allowing a single dts processor to handle two-disc film soundtracks along with a third disc for theatrical trailers. The DTS time code on the 35mm print identifies the film title which is matched to the individual DTS CD-ROMs, guaranteeing that the film cannot be played with the wrong disc. Each DTS CD-ROM contains a DOS program that the processor uses to playback the soundtrack, allowing system improvements or bug fixes to be added easily. Unlike Dolby Digital and SDDS, or the home version of DTS, the theatrical DTS system only carries 5 discrete channels on the CD-ROMs. The .1 LFE subwoofer track is mixed into the discrete surround channels on the disc and recovered via low-pass filters in the theater.

VADER!? WHERE THE HELL IS MY MOCHA LATTE? -Palpy on a very bad day.
“George didn’t think there was any future in dead Han toys.”-Harrison Ford
YT channel:
https://www.youtube.com/c/DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader

Author
Time

I think the complete documentary from the LD set and the three trailers would be the most logical extras.  Possibly other stuff from that cd rom that came out around the release of the SE's.

If I had some gum, I’d chew a hole into the sun…

Author
Time

captainsolo said:

If you really scrutinize it the smearing on the Reivax isn't too horrible in motion. Still frustrating though.

I strongly disagree, the motion-trailing and smear is even worse than on the GOUT transfer in many parts and that is horrible.

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

Author
Time

You know, you're right, I took a look at the Reivax for the first time in a while, and it's pretty much unwatchable. I think the first time around I was just so excited to see 97ANH in a higher resolution that I ignored all the smearing.

VADER!? WHERE THE HELL IS MY MOCHA LATTE? -Palpy on a very bad day.
“George didn’t think there was any future in dead Han toys.”-Harrison Ford
YT channel:
https://www.youtube.com/c/DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader

Author
Time

Yeah, it's very unfortunate, it could've been such a good source, some scenes look very good though.

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

Author
Time
 (Edited)

adywan said:

Harmy said:

And I think DJ is using the Flunk version, which I think was said to be a straight port of the digi tapes used as a source of the TV broadcasts and that's why it is so much better than the others. And it would IMO also mean that the smearing is due to DVNR and not the way it was captured.

No, it would depend on what card they used to capture the tape to the PC. This kind of smearing was very common with cheaper early capture cards. i had one years ago and it did the exact same thing, but there was no way of stopping it.

Hi,

I hope this is the right thread to ask, I'm very interested in how the DVB-S rips of 97 SE (REIVAX, GKar, Flunk, TB) were taken?

I always thought that the authors of that rips connected DVB-S reciever to Digi BetaCam recorder somehow digitally and then transferred the data from Digi Beta tape to PC also digitally (via FireWire).

But according to what Adywan says the transfer from the Digi Beta tape to the PC was done via an analogue way. Does anyone know how exactly? Via RGB? And how was DVB-S reciever connected to the Digi BetaCam recorder? Also via RGB or via some digital way?

Thank you for your answers :-)

 

Author
Time
 (Edited)

adywan said:

They broadcast episodes 4 & 5 1997 SE version on ITV1 a couple of years ago but they switched to the 2004 version of ROTJ because ITV HD had just started and they wanted to show it in HD. The 1997 versions were cropped though to 16:9 to fill the screen so weren't really any good to archive.

I am not sure if this will help but according to this video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LilnZm2Judg - it seems that 97 SE version of Return Of The Jedi was broadcasted on German SAT channel Pro7 about three years ago. So maybe this could be a possible HQ source of 97 SE ROTJ. What do you think about  that?

Author
Time

Nobody answers so I continue my monologue :-) and I have a good news! According to this video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=difZ95qsi5U&feature=related (look at time 0:50) it is now sure that the 97 SE version!! of ROTJ was broadcasted on Pro7 about 3 years ago!

So all we have to do is to find someone who recorded this broadcast and we will have a HQ 97 SE ROTJ!

Any ideas who could have this recording?

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Ady's color corrected 04 ANH

I've never noticed how wide the set was until I saw this pic.

http://images.fanedit.org/images/FE%3C3OT/fe-ot1_signature.png

The franchises I get nerdy about are so obscure that not even most nerds know about them.

Author
Time

Michal said:

So all we have to do is to find someone who recorded this broadcast and we will have a HQ 97 SE ROTJ!

Any ideas who could have this recording?

I believe that the problem was that the processes in those days to capture digital broadcasts usually caused heavy smearing; however, recently someone did suggest that the smearing was inherent to the 1997 Telecine.

If the first theory is correct and the broadcast you pointed out is recent enough, then there is a possibility that we could find a recording with no smearing, which would be utterly fantastic. Good luck trying to find someone though. In the years this forum has been active, not many digital broadcast recordings have surfaced and all with the smearing, so it may be pretty hard to find a high quality recording...

Author
Time
 (Edited)

The Aluminum Falcon said:

I believe that the problem was that the processes in those days to capture digital broadcasts usually caused heavy smearing; however, recently someone did suggest that the smearing was inherent to the 1997 Telecine.

Oh, I see. Thank you, I didn't know that.

If the first theory is correct and the broadcast you pointed out is recent enough, then there is a possibility that we could find a recording with no smearing, which would be utterly fantastic.

I hope that the first theory is correct. We will see. The broadcast is sure recent enough, the author of the first YT video I refered to has confirmed that the recording was taken in 2008. Unfortunately he didn't record the whole movie and nor the author of second YT video. And I have got no German friends so it will be quite hard to find someone who has the recording of this boradcast.

BTW, Return Of The Jedi was also broadcasted on Pro7 in 2009, 2010 and this year (see eg. http://www.cinefacts.de/tv/filmtv.php?id=18234 ) and it will be highly likely broadcasted the next year but I don't know which version it was/will be...

Good luck trying to find someone though. In the years this forum has been active, not many digital broadcast recordings have surfaced and all with the smearing, so it may be pretty hard to find a high quality recording...

Thank you. If I find someone, I will let you know.

Author
Time

Michal said:

If I find someone, I will let you know.

Thank you. I most definitely am interested in editions of the 1997 versions, as it was indeed my first exposure to Star Wars.

Author
Time

You are welcome :-)

I totally understand you, my reasons for searching the highest quality 1997 SE versions possible are the same. As I am born in 1990 the 1997 SE version was the first one I saw.

Author
Time

I have seen parts of the 2010 broadcasts on Pro7 and one earlier this year. I am pretty sure these were the 2004 SE.

I know of a german star wars forum with a lot of big star wars collectors. Mostly action figures, comics, toys, books and other official material, but there might be someone that has good recordings of the 2008 broadcast.

However you should know that Pro7 is a station that has several commercial breaks per movie and they usually display a logo within the movie frame.

 

Author
Time
 (Edited)

For those asking me to upload the G'Kar release, it has been posted on myspleen by grisan (I hope you don't mind me saying it, bro).

Author
Time

I also uploaded the ESB and ROTJ G'Kar if anyone would prefer downloading from there.

Author
Time

> Harmy, grisan, The Aluminium Falcon:

Once again, thank you very much for sahring this!

 

 

grisan said:

I have seen parts of the 2010 broadcasts on Pro7 and one earlier this year. I am pretty sure these were the 2004 SE.

Thank you. I am glad to find someone who knows something about these broadcasts. :-) If they were 2004 SE this is unfortunate.

 

I know of a german star wars forum with a lot of big star wars collectors. Mostly action figures, comics, toys, books and other official material, but there might be someone that has good recordings of the 2008 broadcast.

Thank you, this is a good idea. Could you please write me the adress where can I find this forum?

 

However you should know that Pro7 is a station that has several commercial breaks per movie and they usually display a logo within the movie frame.

Yes, I know. Thank you. I apologize to the others if this wasn't clear from the YT videos. But they don't display the advertisements within the movie frame, do they?

So I think that the small transparent logo in the corner of the movie picture is much better than smearing and maybe it can be hidden by some picture from GKar. But unfortunately we don't know yet if there is a smearing or not in this broadcast...

Author
Time

Michal said:

> Harmy, grisan, The Aluminium Falcon:

Once again, thank you very much for sahring this!

You're welcome. By the way, grisan uploaded a torrent for the Flunk release of ANH and I'll upload it to the file-sharing sites by Monday.

So I think that the small transparent logo in the corner of the movie picture is much better than smearing and maybe it can be hidden by some picture from GKar. But unfortunately we don't know yet if there is a smearing or not in this broadcast...

A logo can indeed be covered up like that. I don't know exactly how to do it but I'm sure it's not too difficult. It would be fantastic if it did turn out that the smearing wasn't inherent to the broadcasts...

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Michal said:

But unfortunately we don't know yet if there is a smearing or not in this broadcast...

 I'm willing to bet that there is, since the Reivax shows smearing, and it's supposed to be a broadcast master =/

No smearing in the LDs?

This signature uses Markdown syntax, which makes it easy to add formatting like italics, bold, and lists:

Author
Time
 (Edited)

I changed the thread title for you guys, so go ahead and take over this thread, it is all yours now.

Author
Time

LeeThorogood said:


The broadcast versions will always be sharper/more detailed as they were broadcast and captured in native PAL 16:9 (1024x576) where as DJs LD captures are coming from a letter-boxed NTSC 4:3 (640x480) source, which roughly speaking gives the broadcast versions ~37.5% more resolution.


"PAL" 16:9 broadcasts are only 720x576, as they're anamorphic.

By my reckoning, there's 60% (1.6x) more vertical detail in anamorphic PAL than 4:3 NTSC (432 lines of active picture against 270).

DE

Author
Time

dark_jedi said:

I changed the thread title for you guys, so go ahead and take over this thread, it is all yours now.

Ah sorry for taking the thread like that. Does this mean your 1997 Blu-Ray project is no longer on?

In any case, I know I asked this on another thread, but is the DTS 5.1 audio track legitimate or home-upmix? If it's real it could be fantastic on 1997 preservation sets.