logo Sign In

In Defense of Death Star II — Page 2

Author
Time

timdiggerm said:

Wookieepedia said:

The canonicity of the events depicted in the original Star Tours experience has been disputed for many reasons, the most obvious being the inclusion of the Death Star. Since R2-D2's presence onboard the Starspeeder 3000 precludes the events taking place during the Battle of Yavin or the Battle of Endor, the Death Star seen in the ride video has been considered by some to be the Death Star prototype, as seen in Jedi Search and Champions of the Force and its destruction to be a depiction of the prototype's destruction at The Maw. However, it does not match that prototype's skeletal construction and R2-D2 is accounted for during that event, as well. Also, the Star Tours Death Star is very close to Endor, far from the Maw's location. This may indicate it is a so far unrevealed Death Star, or that the ride's events are simply not canonical. Others have suggested that the Death Star is one of the modified habitation spheres seen under construction over Coruscant. Leland Chee has tentatively named it the Death Star III.

FML.

“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord

Author
Time

Hmm... not nearly as much dissension as I had assumed.

TheBoost gave a half-hearted effort.

:(

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

Author
Time

xhonzi said:

Hmm... not nearly as much dissension as I had assumed.

TheBoost gave a half-hearted effort.

:(

????!?!?

I thought I agreed with you?!

!?!?!?

 

Author
Time

TheBoost said:

xhonzi said:

Hmm... not nearly as much dissension as I had assumed.

TheBoost gave a half-hearted effort.

:(

????!?!?

I thought I agreed with you?!

!?!?!?

 

I took your selective agreement as silent disagreement.  Perhaps I read too far into it?

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

Author
Time

xhonzi said:

TheBoost said:

xhonzi said:

Hmm... not nearly as much dissension as I had assumed.

TheBoost gave a half-hearted effort.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:(

????!?!?

I thought I agreed with you?!

!?!?!?

 

I took your selective agreement as silent disagreement.  Perhaps I read too far into it?

Just a summarizing of what I thought were the best points.

And I hate large block quotes.

Author
Time

My apologies then.

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

Author
Time

xhonzi said:

My apologies then.

No. Too late man.

To hell with you. I change my opinion and now think the OP was wrong on many levels.

Are you happy now?!?!

Author
Time

What's with all the extra space in that quote above?  Do I need a decoder ring?

Author
Time

TheBoost said:

xhonzi said:

My apologies then.

No. Too late man.

To hell with you. I change my opinion and now think the OP was wrong on many levels.

Are you happy now?!?!

 Very much.

 

Thanks!

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

Author
Time

Good points, though I think I'll try to disagree just for the sake of it. You seem to want a little dissent, anyway.

Although the Empire would surely have wanted to create a new Death Star, it's perfectly possible that they simply wouldn't have had the time or funding to do so between The Empire Strikes Back and our hypothetical alternate finale.

Although I hate to bring the prequels into it, the Death Star's construction is shown as beginning nineteen years before its completion in Star Wars. Even if the construction process could be accelerated after having been built for the first time, the second Death Star is significantly larger than the original, and yet took only five years (perhaps less) to be built. You could argue that the second Death Star was already in construction by the time of Star Wars, but given the reverence that the Imperials apparently have for the first Death Star, it seems to be something utterly unique, not simply the first on an assembly line. Does it make sense that a new, larger Death Star emerged so quickly?

The Death Star is also spoken of as being as much a psychological weapon as an offensive weapon. However, as powerful and terrifying as the idea of the Death Star might be, its destruction at the hands of a blond pretty boy employed by a gaggle of "insignificant" Rebels would very powerfully disqualify it as a terrifying propaganda symbol. It would have been transformed into an image of humiliation and defeat for the Empire, not of victory or domination. The Death Star would be a reminder of the vulnerability of the Empire, and therefore not an area that a skilled propagandist would want to retread. That may be why the Death Star II is bigger, but that shows a pathetic lack of imagination on the part of the Empire. "So, the Death Star is now no longer as scary as it once seemed...I know! We'll make the next one even bigger!"

And, true to form, the invulnerable, world destroying super-weapon is once again pulverized by an utterly outmatched team of fish people, prune faced weirdos and an oddly masculine sounding woman.

Bad move, Empire.

The most compelling argument against the Death Star II for me, though, is just how dramatic the apparent alternative might have been. Several pieces of Ralph McQuarrie's concept art for the Imperial home world are available around the net, and I think it would have made for a much more exciting and original finale than the second Death Star. The Rebels, who until this point have been dodging the Empire on the frontiers of the galaxy - Yavin, Hoth, the distant outer reaches of the galaxy etc. - would be forced to enter the belly of the beast, to face the architectural embodiment of everything they've been fighting against. To actually see the seat of Imperial government, which has only been spoken of until this point, seems the logical conclusion of a series whose central conflict is against the Imperials. The dark, oppressive skyscrapers would have brought home to us further the wicked and intolerable nature of the Empire, particularly if we get to see our heroes lost among and dwarfed by them. In the words of Henry Jones Senior, "We're pilgrims in an unholy land". It is also quite exciting to imagine Vader and Luke dueling on the parapets of the Emperor's vast palace, rather than in the confines of the second Death Star. Imagine powerful winds rising up and blowing Vader's cloak dramatically as his son faces him, or a sudden gust howling and unsettling Luke's hair as he decides whether or not to spare his defeated father, all with the Imperial city glowing at a distance. It would have been original and, I think, more interesting than the retread of the Death Star.

And just to really labor my argument, I'm going to remind everyone that Gary Kurtz agrees with me! Ya' don't hate Gary Kurtz, do ya'?

Gary Kurtz: One of the problems at that particular moment was it looked to me like Jedi was going to be disappointing – with the change in the story, with all of the story material that I had really resonated with being tossed out, and that whole Ewoks thing, and the new Death Star and the same kind of climax of Star Wars. It was, from a creative challenge point of view, kind of a rehash.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

TheoOdo said:

And, true to form, the invulnerable, world destroying super-weapon is once again pulverized by an utterly outmatched team of fish people, prune faced weirdos and an oddly masculine sounding woman.

Bad move, Empire.

   lol.

Author
Time

DuracellEnergizer said:

Nien Nunb is prune-faced?

The blue elephant in the room.

Author
Time

Yeah it always bugged me that you see them boarding the shuttle but then you never see them again anywhere on Endor. If I ever had the ability to reshoot things and do an edit of ROTJ, I'd definitely cut down the ewoks and replace them with human and prune faced troops. 

Forum Moderator
Author
Time

The Prunefaces got a little lost, and ended up being captured by the Dulocks. They eventually joined forces to battle Imperial Walkers, who were also lost, which explains their absence in defending the shield generator.

One unfortunate Pruneface was also eaten by a Gorax, who mistook him for an actual prune. ;)

Forum Moderator

Where were you in '77?

Author
Time

I'm a fan of DSII- I never found fault with it. It's a classic literary device to have situations from act I repeated in act III- this happens throughout ROTJ, not just with DSII but in many other instances:

1. Returning to Tatooine
2. Luke/Leia swing across scenes
3. Luke twin suns/funeral pyre scenes

There are others, I just can't think of any more off the top of my head.

Author
Time

I'd have ditched the prune faces , the masks were utter bobbins.

Sure some the Ewok heads were badly fitting but those guys looked like awful deformed Palpatine prototypes.

Author
Time

SilverWook said:

The Prunefaces got a little lost, and ended up being captured by the Dulocks. They eventually joined forces to battle Imperial Walkers, who were also lost, which explains their absence in defending the shield generator.

One unfortunate Pruneface was also eaten by a Gorax, who mistook him for an actual prune. ;)

Win.

Forum Moderator
Author
Time
 (Edited)

SilverWook said:

The Prunefaces got a little lost, and ended up being captured by the Dulocks. They eventually joined forces to battle Imperial Walkers, who were also lost, which explains their absence in defending the shield generator.

One unfortunate Pruneface was also eaten by a Gorax, who mistook him for an actual prune. ;)

Keep Circulating the Tapes.

END OF LINE

(It hasn’t happened yet)

Author
Time

TheoOdo said:

<snip>

Well, IE decided to crash on me after I'd all but finished this.  So this is a repeat...

Good points, TheoOdo!  Most excellent.  I agree with most of them.

Regarding the time line... discounting the PT for a moment (a moment that lasts for eternity!  buwhahahahahaha!), how long would it take to build one of these moth3rs? 

It's kind of a stupid question because you can't really answer it with any appeal to Earth based logic- because Earth based logic says the thing requires too many resources to build- would require the complete demolition of several planets (probably) just to have enough metal just to get started.

But one thing is clear:  It's either a typo, or someone decided that DSII was RIDICULOUSLY bigger than DSI. (if you believe the "official" numbers, that is)

Which is kind of easy to see how it was so ridiculously large, given that it's in RotJ... but what about the Super Star Destroyer?  Seems like Kurtz would have reigned that one in... if he had any say on the matter.  That one is also so big as to just be silly.

(*whew*  Almost had to type this a third time!  Apparently I wasn't logged in, so it made me log in and reset the reply form.  Good thing I could 'back' my way up to it.  Or else the third version would have basically said "Screw it, I give up!")

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!