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I'm thinking lawsuit... — Page 2

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im glad someone brought this up... ive been saying this for months now...

as for not being able to take back DVDs... simple solution... take it up against a brick wall and tell them that the DVD was damaged... if they offer you an exchange tell them that you have already bought it elsewhere due to their unsatisfactory products and i guarentee they will give you your money back...

I do it all Wal Mart all the time...
"Never. I'll never turn to the darkside. You've failed your highness. I am a jedi, like my father before me."
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Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
Oh my gosh... quit complaining.

George Lucas isn't going to release the original theatrical editions, period.

And there is no false advertising: The box says "Star Wars Trilogy"
It doesn't say that it is the original theatrical edition.


Thank you
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I hate to bring this up, but no one has said anything about it yet. In 1995, there was a HUGE ad campaign claiming that then would be the last time to own the original versions of the Star Wars trilogy. So, they did kinda cover themselves.
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Originally posted by: jimbo
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Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
Oh my gosh... quit complaining.

George Lucas isn't going to release the original theatrical editions, period.

And there is no false advertising: The box says "Star Wars Trilogy"
It doesn't say that it is the original theatrical edition.


Thank you


Both of you read Pagz's posts again. He's 100% right.

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Originally posted by: RowMan
I hate to bring this up, but no one has said anything about it yet. In 1995, there was a HUGE ad campaign claiming that then would be the last time to own the original versions of the Star Wars trilogy. So, they did kinda cover themselves.


Personally, I don't think that an ad campaign or whatever from a video release nine years ago covers them. Obviously not everybody's going to specifically remember "Oh right, the 1995 video release was the last time to own the original versions" when they go out to buy the DVDs. Also, not everybody knows about it - I never new they made a big ad campaign about it being the last time to own the original versions, because I didn't get into Star Wars until later (but I still saw the original versions first and prefer them). Also, I'm sure there a lot of people have forgotten all about that, and I'm sure that there are also lots of people who own Star Wars videos from the 1980s and haven't bought any since and haven't paid attention to further video releases who are planning to buy the DVDs. And there are also lots of other reasons why people wouldn't know that the DVDs are the Special Editions (or whatever) and that the original versions supposedly won't be available anymore.

So just because they made an announcement nine years ago doesn't mean they can advertise the DVD boxset as the Original Star Wars Trilogy without any mention of Special Editions (or Ultimate Editions or whatever) or changes.
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Originally posted by: Spyder X

...So just because they made an announcement nine years ago doesn't mean they can advertise the DVD boxset as the Original Star Wars Trilogy without any mention of Special Editions (or Ultimate Editions or whatever) or changes.


True, but having the ad campaign at all is somewhat of an arguement for the fact that they did do something to inform people. Also, I've always taken the term "Original Star Wars Trilogy," when used in advertising, to mean "the first movies in the series to be released in theaters," and not, "the original versions of the first movies to be released in theaters."

Maybe I'm too informed on the issue and can't see it from a "general public" point of view.
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The ad campaign in question said "Own the Original Trilogy on Video, one last time". In further Print ads, "video" was defined as VHS and Laserdisc. So legally, yes, they have made a public declaration that the original would not be released again. However, the loophole also exists that they did not specify the DVD format. However, that's all an intellectual battle of symantics and legalese.

Jimbo, Chatlab, I'm not complaining here, I'm just laying down the legal facts of the matter. I'm not trying to make any value judgements about whether or not GL should release the original trilogy. The fact of the matter is, calling his current product "The Star Wars Trilogy" is misleading to the consumer public, because what he is selling is not the Star Wars Trilogy as it exists as a legal entity. What George is selling is an update of the Star Wars Trilogy Special Edition that he released in '97. If no effort is made to draw the consumers attention to that fact, then they are engaging in fraudulent misrepresentation of their product, regardless of GL's personal feelings of the matter.

Something to Consider, George Lucas has been pushing to replace the Director credits on Empire and Jedi because of the special editions and his revisions of them. That, in and of itself, clearly shows that these films are new entities, distinct from the original even in GL's mind. While GL refers to the original's as "Work prints" the Legal System will treat it differently. The films were released to the general public, and were available to them for 20 years before Lucas began "revising" his work. That, in the eyes of the law, makes them a finished product, as opposed to a work in progress. If GL were to successfully challenge that status, and have the Special Editions legally declared The Star Wars Trilogy, then he would be obliged at that point to return his oscar, and any other awards his "work print" had received, as they would no longer be valid. However, those are some really big ifs.

The Facts are, GL can not change history. That being the case, any attempt to call these new editions "The Star Wars Trilogy" without any manner of qualification as to what is actually contained in these prints, is fraudulent misrepresentation and is technically legally actionable. The question is, would it be worth the time, money and effort to persue it. Probably not.

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Originally posted by: Luke Skywalker
im glad someone brought this up... ive been saying this for months now...

as for not being able to take back DVDs... simple solution... take it up against a brick wall and tell them that the DVD was damaged... if they offer you an exchange tell them that you have already bought it elsewhere due to their unsatisfactory products and i guarentee they will give you your money back...

I do it all Wal Mart all the time...



Another work around is to exchange it with the receipt, and they'll give new copies. They are supposed to open them at that point, but I've never once seen any Wal-Mart employee do so. Then, go in the next day with your unopened copies. You probably won't have the original receipt because they generally mark all over it with an exchange, but you don't need a receipt if you have unopened copies. They will give you a refund.

This works especially well with low quality merchandise that has a habit of breaking. If you've got a game or DVD, and the disc is slightly cracked from the poorly done cases, go buy a new one, take it back with the cracked disc and your receipt, get a new copy, bring it back unopened for a refund. New, shiny disc, without costing a thing.
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The Special Editions are The Star Wars trilogy. Alot of remakes of old movies are released without any labling sating that they are remakes. Also Labling them Special Editions would be false. Since these are not the Special Editions they are new versions.
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Originally posted by: jimbo
The Special Editions are The Star Wars trilogy. Alot of remakes of old movies are released without any labling sating that they are remakes. Also Labling them Special Editions would be false. Since these are not the Special Editions they are new versions.


Yeah. Pagz covered the issue regarding calling them the Special Editions. It would have to be a new name, but it would have to be labelled somehow. Most everything else gets labelled as such. The Exorcist: The Version You've Never Seen. The Abyss: The Director's Cut. Aliens: Special Edition. Apocalypse Now Redux. People can tell that they are not the original versions based on the title modifiers. And, for each of those, a version exists without the additional footage. Wow. They made both camps happy, didn't they? Some of the versions may not be the easiest to find anymore, but they do exist.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
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why cant he just give them some sort of sub title???
just as an example to his THX packaging... he has written in small print at the bottom "George Lucas Directors Cut" or something like that...

i find it funny that he had to add his name in that and couldnt just label it directors cut...
"Never. I'll never turn to the darkside. You've failed your highness. I am a jedi, like my father before me."
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he's just reminding people that he did direct ONE GOOD FILM, once upon a time in a studio far, far away (from me atleast)
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Originally posted by: Luke Skywalker
why cant he just give them some sort of sub title???
just as an example to his THX packaging... he has written in small print at the bottom "George Lucas Directors Cut" or something like that...

i find it funny that he had to add his name in that and couldnt just label it directors cut...


Well, he added his name to the subhead since he didn't actually direct all three of them. So, he becomes the proxy director of the trilogy by being the one to make all the decisions regarding the THX remastering. That's just my guess. The originals remain the cuts as dictated by the original directors. The THX remastered set is George Lucas' directors cut. Then there's the Special Edition. Then the Super Special Edition. Then the Archival Ultimate Edition. You get my drift.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
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Kevin A
Webmaster/Primary Cynic
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ahhhhh i get it...
i really prefer The Star Wars Trilogy..
PERIOD!!
"Never. I'll never turn to the darkside. You've failed your highness. I am a jedi, like my father before me."
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why cant he just give them some sort of sub title???



When it comes to the question of why the O-OT hasn't been released, I don't believe GL when he says that the SE/DVD versions are his real 'vision' and that the OT was just a rough cut. The real reason he won't release them is that he is scared to death at the POSSIBILITY that if general public had the option between the two, they might find the OT better, therefor invalidating his precious SE/DVD versions (and wounding his ego). So, the sure fire way to keep this from happening is to eliminate the SE/DVD competition permanently. My main point is that he's intentionally calling the new DVD's "The Star Wars Trilogy" to further erase the notion of the originals. If he were to give the DVDs a subtitle, that would be acknowledging that there are still (two) seperate versions, which would undermine his attempt to get everyone accept his SE/DVDs as the "one" true version of the trilogy.

And although I totally think calling the DVDs "The Star Wars Trilogy" is misleading (and insulting the people at this site), I don't think he's really on too shaky of legal ground. When it comes to products like DVDs, I think the courts pretty much see it as a caveat emptor issue.
40,000 million notches away
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I agree with you 100%. I think if George could erase the memories of the 'original versions', he would. He is totally using his power and the marketing machine to somewhat 'persuade' peolple's thinking of what the original trilogy is.
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Windexed, great point and somewhat along the path I was alluding too. Pagz, you need to calm down a bit. I was simply referring to reality not emotion. I have a very emtional piece of the "that feeling" thread and I am hardly Pro-Lucas. I am just begging what is rational. In the first month of star wars there were 3 version the lost cut, star warsre-new hope, and then the new hope... So from the beginning, in 1977 there were changes and he has always stated wanting to have these films evolve to his vision...which according to him, will be the archival editions, hence the name. Please don't unleash anger at us, for staing why its just not plausible. Now certainly it not good business practice and is a harsh denial to the most hardcore fans (the reason for the site and why we're here)...in that regard we all agree (except Jimbo maybe). We all feel your pain about the OT. There will be awesome edits after the box set is released and there are the anamorphic and tr47 sets. He will not release them probably ever, may be a remote chance on the archival editions where there is huge amounts of room on each disc, where he'd include as an extra (easter egg maybe...haha).
16 years I wait and this is what I get???
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Originally posted by: Obi-wonton
In the first month of star wars there were 3 version the lost cut, star wars: Pre-new hope, and then the new hope...

Could you clarify exactly what you are talking about here?

Greedo shoots first? Not in my DVD player.
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if you refer to my lost footage thread here ,you'll see links to what I mean with the "lost cut" which has 30-40% different material. It was the original cut it was titled "The Star Wars". GL changed it, hacked it up and made "Star Wars" and it was a stand alone movie. 3 weeks after its release theatrically (and seeing success and $$$), he added "A New Hope" to it as the subtitle and in the scrawl, only after this change it was "episode IV". He also changed a few scenes and lines. The original release theatrically which is a memory and impossible to find (though Magnoliafan is working on that with editing) is referred to as the Pre-New Hope Star Wars. So in the 1977, there were in fact 3 different cuts of "star wars" alone...premonitions of things to come and massive changes to be made a la Special editions, 2004 trilogy and the 2007 Archival. Hope that clarifies.
16 years I wait and this is what I get???
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The whole situation smacks of "1984" to me. I never thought it'd be George out to rewrite history to his preferred version. Clearly, titling this new release as simply "The Star Wars Trilogy" is an attempt on George's part to assert that this new cut is the one and only trilogy, and all that came before was merely work print, test bed, whatever you want to call it. The real hell of it though, is that this surely won't be the last release of the OT that's been tinkered with. When Episode III is over and done, I guarantee George will go back for his final pass on all the films, then release his definitive collection as a single saga, He'll probably title it "The Star Wars Saga" in hopes to replace everything that has come before, prequel and OT alike. Honestly, I couldn't care less. They are his movies, he can do what he likes. What bothers me is his insistance on not releasing the unaltered OT. Whether GL likes it or not, that film in that itteration is a piece of cinema history. A very large and signifigant piece. To pretend it never happened is to do a disservice not only to those who worked so hard to make it, and to those who fell in love with it and drove the marketing empire that made George what he is today, but to the entire world where the original became something more than just a movie, it became an integral part of the social fabric and popular culture. Mess with the saga all you like George, but don't try to erase history, you are a film maker, not Big Brother.

As for the arguement that there were 3 versions of the film at the time of its release. Sure, but how many copies of each, and how wide was the circulation on the 2 that weren't the Final cut? To my mind, those 2 alternate cuts could more easily and convincinly be called "work prints" than the final version, which is the one that went on to win so many awards and become a world wide phenomenon. The alternate cuts are an interesting historical curiousity of the star wars franchise, but the difference between that situation and the current situation is vast.

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Originally posted by: Obi-wonton
if you refer to my lost footage thread here You'll see links to what I mean with the "lost cut" which has 30-40% different material and was the original cut it was titled "The Star Wars". GL changed it hacked it up and made "Star Wars" and it was a stand alone movie. 3 weeks after its release He added "A new hope" to it as the subtitle and in the scrawl, only after this change it was "episode IV". He also changed a few scenes and lines. The original release theatrically which is a memory and impossible to find (though Magnoliafan is working on that with editing) is referred to as the Pre-New Hope Star Wars. So in the 1977, there were in fact 3 different cuts of "star wars" alone...premonitions of things to come and massive changes to be made a la Special editions, 2004 trilogy and the 2007 Archival.

I just wanted to be sure I knew what you were saying before I responded.

Yes, I know all about the lost cut. It was never, nor was ever meant to be, released theatrically. I'm not sure if you think it was. It was simply an early rough cut. Nothing more.

"A New Hope" was not added 3 weeks after the release. It was in fact added for the April 10, 1981 re-release. And no scenes were changed. However, there are many subtle differences in sound that stem from the fact that 3 different sound mixes were used for the original release.
Greedo shoots first? Not in my DVD player.
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The lost cuts were just screeners. For test audiences. This is done all the time. Whenever you see a new movie advertised as a "sneek preview" this is strictly to test it with an audience of the general public. They have several "versions" of the ending, begining, or whatever. After studying how the audience reacts to certain parts, or whatever, the final changes are made and the final print is made and sent out for release. I live in Toronto and this happens all the time here.
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I probably mis-worded what I said earlier:

What I mean is, that most people--the general public--doesn't care which version of the movies they put on DVD. Only people who prefer the Original Cuts care, so even if there is some legal "shakyness" it really won't matter to the average consumer.


(For the record, I don't have a preference, because I've never seen the original cuts)

4

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Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
(For the record, I don't have a preference, because I've never seen the original cuts)

You've never seen the original trilogy?!?

You've just made George Lucas so happy.

Greedo shoots first? Not in my DVD player.
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Wow, Chaltab. I can't believe you've never seen them. Find a way to watch them. Now.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
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Here you go and by different scenes I meant 3 scenes were redubbed and the opening crawl changed, and by 3 weeks after the original release that is when Lucas decided to make this change. Lastly I do know that the "lost cut" was not intended to be widely distributed and was for screening. Again, spefically Obi Wan Spicoli, why do you want to argue so bad. I am trying to enlighten. I swear my posts are not read completely, skimmed and lambasted is more like by certain board members. I never said HOORAY Lucas! I never said this is the same as the present changes taking place. I am setting precedence that in fact, Lucas has always had a history of tinkering. And further Lucas can argue his vision originally was not realized and is evolving and that the Archival Edition will be the culmination of that. Why argue, just say good point...you can disagree with me, but 1. Read my entire post 2. Think of my point with reacting emotionally wanting to tear someone down. 3. write your opinion, again without tearing others down. This is the point of a message board... As for references to the "orginal" movie alone (not including the other 5 episodes) going through changes/revisions...


Alternate Versions for
Star Wars (1977)
When the original theatrical version was first released, it was simply titled Star Wars.The opening crawl was changed to "Star Wars: Episode IV - A New Hope" during the 1981 re-release. According to Sterling Hedgpeth, Lucasfilm film archivist: "I found a box with all the positive elements for the 'revised' opening crawl, and the assorted trim boxes are dated from October through December 1980. This, then, is consistent with the view that Episode IV: A New Hope was added for the first time to the opening crawl for the April 10, 1981 re-release."


There are at least two different prints of the original Star Wars in circulation. One definite difference between them is that the brief scene in the Death Star corridor where Chewbacca roars and "frightens" a little messenger droid is missing. This scene was NOT in the "opening day" version.


The original version reportedly includes another difference besides the corridor scene. The actress who played Aunt Beru, Shelagh Fraser, does not have her voice in all prints of the Star Wars movies - except in the original print. Lucas dubbed it over in all subsequent prints.


A Special Edition has been released in 1997 on January, 31st (USA).


The overall quality of the film, i.e. resolution, etc., has been cleaned up, and colors are more vibrant. The sound has been digitally remastered (THX). In addition, the film now features new special effects shots and scenes including:
the Jabba the Hut scene;
Boba Fett;
new explosions for the Death Star and Alderaan;
a bigger and busier Mos Eisley with several computer generated droids and animals running around;
Obi-wan's house on a mountain;
a newly-refurbished Sandcrawler;
lightsabers looking more like swords;
two new aliens in the cantina;
in the cantina scene Greedo now fires on Han Solo before being shot;
new sounds added to ships and blasts;
a bird's eye view of the Millennium Falcon's departure of Mos Eisley;
when Han chases the stormtroopers around the corner, instead of a small group there is a whole platoon;
a lot of new shots and dogfighting scenes for the Death Star battle;
a touched up shot of the Rebel fighters approaching the Death Star from Yavin. More fighters were digitally added so that there are more than two times the amount originaly seen. In addition the pilots can be seen moving about within the cockpit. The pilots' heads in the Special Edition X-Wings belong to special effects supervisor John Knoll. Knoll says, on the Star Wars Special Editon: Making the Magic CDROM, that he used a scan of his head from a few years before the movie, so that "I am every pilot at Yavin." Incidentally, Knoll actually does have a (non-digital) cameo in the Phantom Menace as an N1 Fighter Pilot who gets shot down in outer space.
the opening sequence with the Rebel Blockade Runner (corvette) and Star Destroyer was recomposited to eliminate dirt and wear;
more involved search for the droids;
a scene with Luke and Biggs, a friend from his home planet just before the Battle of Yavin.
James Earl Jones now gets credited as the Voice of Darth Vader.
In the scene where the Millenium Falcon arrives at the Rebel base, it is now visible flying over the jungle as the sentries keep watch.
While looking at the monitor on how to locate the power source for the tractor beam, 3PO now speaks about how to get there (reportedly this scene also appeared on some pre-Special Edition releases).
When leaving from the Mos Eisley port, the Millenium Falcon now makes a turn instead of going straight at a fixed angle.
The look of the rebel base in the jungle has been changed so it looks now as if carved out of the rough stone.
When the Millenium Falcon arrives at the Rebel base, the huge door to the inside is moving as opposed to being stationary in the original.


In the video version of the original, when the stormtroopers are chasing Han down the hall, you can hear one of them say "Open the blast door. Open the blast door" as Han and Chewbacca pass through it and leave the troopers on the other side. In the special edition, you can hear one of the stormtroopes say "Close the blast door" before it closes. The scene is actually a little funnier because it's his own fault that the door closed. The extra dialogue was "lost" on the home video release but the line did exists in earlier theatrical versions, as evidenced by the 1977 audio recording of the film entitled "The Story of Star Wars." This LP/audio casette includes that line, in the exact same voice and reading as it appears in the special edition. Also note that foreign language versions of the film did have the translation of that line (I know the French one did). The "close the blast doors" line is also seen in a Star Wars clip in the 1993 PBS American Masters special: George Lucas - Heroes, Myth and Magic.


The "lost scenes" from this film, namely Luke's discovering the Tantive-IV-Battle, Luke storming into Station Tosche and Luke's and Biggs' extended talk on Tatooine reveal that one of Luke's friends, Camie, was played by Koo Stark (of early Eighties Prince Andrew liaison fame). Sadly the scenes never made it into the movie and can only be seen on the "Behind the magic" CD-ROM-discs.


Stills from the "lost" Tatooine scenes have been published (in "The Star Wars Storybook", for example) and at least one sequence is shown in the documentary 'The Making of 'Star Wars'". Also, the scenes were included in the novel, comic book and radio adaptations of the story.


The Cd-Rom "Behind the Magic", includes a few additional scenes not shown in any subsequent release.
Luke watching the space battle with his electrobinaculars, and a droid with him breaks down as he leaves it behind and drives off in his speeder.
Luke goes into Anchorhead and there are several characters that are playing a pool-like game with sticks. Biggs is there and greets Luke, and they all go outside to watch the space battle, which has ended by now. Everyone laughs at Luke and refer to him as "Wormie" and exclaim "Not again."
Luke describes a race where he used his Skyhopper in Beggar's Canyon and almost crashed (a description matching Episode I's pod race exactly, also set in Beggar's Canyon). Biggs then describes how he intends to defect and join the Rebel Alliance and how things are not what they seem because of the Empire.
There is an alternate version of the Cantina sequence where Han Solo is with, and kisses a woman. Many of the creatures were studio generic masks from other movies because Stewart Freeborn was ill during this portion of production.


David West Reynolds
16 years I wait and this is what I get???