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I'm doing a comparison - opinions please!

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Because of all the different versions and audio mixes over the years I've decided to do a series of comparisons for the original trilogy. I've made a start on IV, as this is the one that's been screwed with the most, and will be doing the others when time permits. Bearing in mind that it isn't even live yet, and without any screaming and shouting, could I have opinions on this please? I know that some things are missing, such as the new Mos Eisley and the Falcon departure, but as I said it's a work in progress (and probably always will be - see I'm becoming George Lucas). If anyone can offer suggestions as to scenes they believe to be significantly altered (and they would like included), just let me know. I know other sites have done something like this, but they're not as comprehensive (unless you know otherwise). Oh, and don't pay too much attention to the text as I've not written most of it yet.
"Whatever! I digitally put Jabba the Hutt back into the original Star Wars movie! I'll do what I want!"
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Flippin' hell, that's pretty comprehensive in itself!
"Whatever! I digitally put Jabba the Hutt back into the original Star Wars movie! I'll do what I want!"
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Well, one audio change you missed was "There's noone here" after the Stormtroopers search the Falcon. I thought it was a major change/addition because the scene was rather silent before.
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Very nice! But still missing the edits made on the final battle.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Thanks guys. As I said it's not complete yet, but I've already noted the new Stormtrooper line as something that needs to be included (also the new line in the cantina). What are the specific changes in the final battle? There are a lot of different shots! I'm very conscious of these comparisons spiraling out of control, so any help is appreciated.
"Whatever! I digitally put Jabba the Hutt back into the original Star Wars movie! I'll do what I want!"
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I think the major changes to the final battle are primarily in the new digital shots, but there is that audio issue where the music is drowned out ("I'm gonna cut across the axis and try and draw their fire!")

Oh, and the Biggs scene of course.
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Looking good. Your screencaps are really solid.

Princess Leia: I happen to like nice men.
Han Solo: I'm a nice man.

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Quote

Originally posted by: Darth Justin
I think the major changes to the final battle are primarily in the new digital shots, but there is that audio issue where the music is drowned out ("I'm gonna cut across the axis and try and draw their fire!")

Oh, and the Biggs scene of course.


There's still something no one was able to answer me, and I cannot check: was the final battle changed for the 2004 DVDs? It felt different from any other version I've seen...
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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I'm pretty sure it's the same as the Special Edition aside from small audio changes. Perhaps seeing it on DVD simply makes it look different from the other formats (ie the picture and sound quality, even with its problems). One change I know is the Death Star's explosion being toned down from bright and colorful to dull and almost black and white.
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I was pretty sure the line "close formation" from Vader was followed by a shot of the TIES going right to left. When I watched the DVDs, I felt like it was cut too abruptly, and it was followed by another shot, of the TIEs coming towards the camera.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Just after Ben is killed and Luke is blasting at the Stormtroopers, Leia says "Luke, come on!" In the SE at least, the "Luke" in that line is impossible to hear. I thought it was added to the DVD but maybe it was garbled in the other versions.
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You beat me to it! I was planning to do a comparison in just that same manner. (You even read my mind and mirrored some of the notes I'd written down, LOL!) Although I was planning on painstakingly covering EVERY change I could identify shot-for-shot (as one would expect a geek like me to do), from the CG additions down to the "buzzer" sound when R2 pushes the button to open the escape pod door.

Would you consider including another person's comments alongside your own? But that would probably open you to an onslaught of people asking to add commentary, so perhaps not.

In mine (planned, but I think I may hold back now because yours covers it very well), I was going to go to greater detail for the Greedo scene, including quotes from interviews with Lucas and an excerpt from the script, as published by Premiere Movie Magazine in 1994. I've yet to find indication anywhere before the SE that Lucas intended Greedo to shoot at all, let alone first, and I really wanted to call Lucas on this bit of PC revisionism.

I may still do my version, but I'll probably focus only on certain changes and go into greater detail on those few. Having now seen this, I wouldn't feel right doing exactly the same thing myself.

Overall I think the article looks fantastic, and I look forward to your coverage of the other 2 movies.
Did you take your screen captures from laserdisc copies for the original and SE versions? (I've both, as I'm sure many other people on this board do as well.)
"You came here in that? You're braver than I thought."
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Yeah, the caps are from the Definitive bootlegs DVDs and my DVD5 bootlegs of the SEs (the ones before the Five Star release). Unfortunately I just don't have the time to go into the kind of detail you intended, but I will be covering all the major changes. I've now made the article live, but will be adding bits and pieces (as well as correctign a few spelling mistakes that slipped through) as soon as I can. I'll be starting work on Empire when my current workload dies down.

At some point in the future I'm hoping to get a better transfer for the originals and SEs to take caps from, but that all depends on what's available and how much it costs!
"Whatever! I digitally put Jabba the Hutt back into the original Star Wars movie! I'll do what I want!"
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Probably going to stay there. It's pretty bandwidth intensive and I don't really want to start paying for things like that myself when I have their resources available to me. Although having said that with a few meg of sounds and images and about forty thousand people trying to access it at once, the server did struggle a bit! We actually had to take it down and put it in html for a while to help lighten the load, so we don't have an accurate count of how mnay people have viewed it. Apparently one US government server alone tried to access it 26,000 times in one hour. Perhaps George set the Feds on me

I've just started the Jedi article actually, but I have less time this week. What's very strange about this whole thing is that one UK magazine has expressed an interest in running a piece on my articles. Early days yet so it may never happen, but if it does it might at least show people the extent of the tinkering over the years. Ideally I'd like to get some better quality rips of the OT, cause while the Dr Gonzo discs are ok for watching on TV they don't look too good when captured for the articles., but I'll have to wait and see how the current crop of laserdisc rips turn out.
"Whatever! I digitally put Jabba the Hutt back into the original Star Wars movie! I'll do what I want!"
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very interesting site Mentasm.


E!-A!-G!-L!-E!-S! EAGLES!!!
SUPERBOWL LII CHAMPS!!!

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Had no idea they changed that much audio for TESB - very cool updates, Mentasm.

Interesting to read people's comments, suggestions and memories at the end of slight changes to what we all THINK we saw and heard in the differing versions and formats...

Mentasm's The Empire Strikes Back changes... at www.dvdanswers.com



Looking forward to the ROTJ thread.
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I find that answer vague and unconvincing.
 
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The Jedi article is now up on the site. You can find it here.
"Whatever! I digitally put Jabba the Hutt back into the original Star Wars movie! I'll do what I want!"
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I noticed a couple changes to the audio you missed in the Empire Strikes Back section...

Luke's lightsaber activation sound is now from Return Of The Jedi and Vader's grunt when he falls off the edge of the Carbon Freezing Chamber, which has been changed since 1997.

Other than that, great job.
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Cheers, but I'm not including effects. It would just be too time consuming.
"Whatever! I digitally put Jabba the Hutt back into the original Star Wars movie! I'll do what I want!"
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Here is my original list from September 12, 2004. I was the first person to comment on the botched audio and have written quite extensively about it.

Here is my list of sound changes. This is all in reference to changes made to the original film, except in a few instances I've pointed out differences also from the 1993 re-mix. Some of these new sounds obviously were heard in the 1997 re-mix, some are new to this mix. I've also included a few picture changes, but I feel they have been covered everywhere, while the sound mix has been virtually ignored. I have not noted any changes to specific SE shots (such as the destruction of Alderaan) since these shots are entirely new.


The 1954 recording of the Fox logo is still played though it sounds very distorted.

The new Lucasfilm logo is shown.

The “Star Wars” title card starts moving much too fast in relation to the original and can be seen “shifting gears” as it gets smaller and slows down.

New explosions can be heard over the opening shot.

The foley in this mix is very loud and in your face. Not subtle in anyway. Note Threepios footsteps. They've always been there, just never this loud.

The sound of the ship docking has some revised sound.

The shirts of the rebel troopers change colors. They were always gray before. In some shots now they are blue.

Vaders voice has been re-processed throughout the entire film to get him to match the sequels.

When Artoo opens the door to the escape pod, the button he pushes buzzes.

The laser blast that convinces Threepio to get in the escape pod was re-done in 1993. It is the same sound effect as a lamp blowing up in Raiders of the Lost Ark. This effect is also heard later in the movie.

When Vader is talking to the “Second Commander” (“Lord Vader, the battle station plans are not aboard this ship!”) the room in the background makes beeping noises. For fun, I’ll point out that this actor has the same voice as General Dodonna at the end of the movie. I suspect that the “Second Commander” is dubbed.

When Artoo is shot by the Jawas and falls over a tremendous bass impact has been mixed in.

The restraining bolt being installed makes a different sound.

Artoos arrival inside the sand crawler makes a new sound.

You now hear the sand crawler start up as it starts to move.

Later, you hear the sand crawler come to a stop. Threepio then says, “We’ve stopped” before telling Artoo to wake up.

The sound of Threepio rising from the oil bath has been augmented.

The lunch scene with Beru and Owen has some new foley (Beru’s chair makes a sound now). This is a quiet scene and you can literally hear the faders being brought down after every line of dialogue. Dailogue does not sound integrated in this scene.

Beru’s pronunciation of “father” has been re--done......again.

Luke’s land speeder can be seen in the long shot from the sand peoples point of view. Previously it was just a white speck moving.

The clanking of the sand persons gaffi stick is heard in this mix.

The Krayt Dragon sound that Ben uses to scare the sand people has been re-done. It almost sounds like a police siren at first. Definitely sounds artifical as opposed to the older, more organic sound.

The light sabers have not been re-processed to match the sound heard in the prequels.

In this mix it’s very clear that the bartender has been dubbed. It was not as obvious before.

When Luke is thrown into the table, it makes an all new sound effect.

When the stormtroopers walk into the bar they can be heard saying, “Undertand you had some trouble in here”. This is heard under Hans, “Looks like somebody’s beginning to take an interest in your handiwork.” line.

Alien sound effect is missing just before Threepios line, “I would much rather have gone with Master Luke than stay here with you.”

The music edit just after the Jabba scene is pretty bad. The music just starts. Also Bens line “If the ships as fast as he’s boasting we ought to do well” is different than the original mix. It sounds edited together here.

A quick dissolve is missing between the shot of the spy and the interior entrance of Docking Bay 94. It is a hard cut now.

The spy makes some more sounds before informing the stormtroopers of where Luke and Ben are.

There are new explosion sound effects in the shoot out in Docking Bay 94.

“You would prefer another target? A military target?” both sound crystal clear. “Then name the system!” is clearly from the old mix. Right in the middle of the line there is a quality shift. This happens through out the entire movie, but this may be the most obvious. It almost feels like a game, wondering if the next line is going to be the new clear dialogue or the older sounding dialogue. Obviously, there is a lack of consistency here and it’s jarring throughout the film. This is problably the worst feature of this new mix.

When the Falcon arrives at Alderaan there is some very deep bass. However, when the Falcon is captured by the Death Stars tractor beam, deep bass is missing that was heard in the 1993 mix. However there is a lot of sound of the cockpit shaking.

Also in the 1993 mix, the sound of the TIE fighter shooting at the Falcon could be heard. That’s not here nor was it in the original mix.

The PA systems line, “Close all outboard shields” sounds different.

Just before Han and company come out of the secret compartments, the two inspecting stormtroopers stop at the exit ramp and one of them says, “There’s no one here.”.

When Luke exits out of the Falcon and taps his stormtrooper helmet, static can be heard.

The dialogue keeps changing during the command office scene, between the clear dialogue and the older sounding dialogue.

The computer in the detention block scene makes new noises.

When Han, Luke and Chewie are shooting the cameras in the cell block area, the explosions are all re-done. There is also some new blaster fire added. When Han shoots the console, his blaster is much louder now then it was before.

The explosion as the stormtroopers blast into the cell block is much louder and has more bass.

When Leia shoots the hatch to get into the garbage chute, the explosion is different.

Chewie pounding on the door of the trash compactor makes new sounds.

The famous blooper of the stormtrooper walking into the door has now been punctuated with a loud “clunk” sound effect. What was once a tough to see mistake is now pointed ot for everyone to see.

When Ben is turning off the tractor beam (I guess this is what he’s doing since the display is no longer in English) some sound effects that were heard at Bespin in The Empire Strikes Back and in ALIEN are mixed in here.

The creature sound effects after they get out of the trash compactor are different.

When Leia fires her blaster during the chasm crossfire, it no longer sounds like Dirty Harry’s .44 magnum. This chasm also has the ALIEN/Bespin sound effect.

When Luke throws the grappling hook, it makes a “whizzing through the air” sound effect.

When they are shouting for Luke to come on board the Falcon (after Ben’s death) Leia now says, “Luke, come on!”. Previously, it was just “Come on!”.

Music reverb heard during the fight with the TIE Fighters is gone.

During the TIE Fighter fight, there is a long shot of

Well at least the reversed surround channels have been addressed.