Possessed said:
I'm so pissed off I feel like blowing my head off.
Who said bitching had to be specific?
Please don't blow your head off.
Yes, there are much less messy ways to kill yourself. ;)
Listen to the Fezzed one.
I want to bitch about how TNG fucked up the ST Universe, but I don't know if that should go here or in the Star Trek thread.
In a way ST:WOK for all it's fun and flashes of brilliance ruined Star Trek because of it's inexpensive success.
After that the shows and films became locked into recycle mode. With clips from other projects, story-lines and references churned over and over, not to mention the addiction to revenge plots in the movies.
TNG added the need for perpetual and often unnecessary background music.
I wish there was a option to switch it off on the home releases, it's as obtrusive as the laughter track on some comedy shows.
Upon reflection this should be in the Star Trek thread.
I can't believe what some people are like. A spammer called earlier today, and my dad asked him what it was like to cheat people like that. The guy replied that it was "fun." Why do people have to be like that?
I don't know... I'd rather people were bare faced than three-faced.
DuracellEnergizer said:
I want to bitch about how TNG fucked up the ST Universe, but I don't know if that should go here or in the Star Trek thread.
in what way did TNG f*** up the ST Universe. I do think you can argue that DS9 and Voyager and Enterprise did that, but TNG?
Let's see ... how did TNG fuck things up ...
In no particular order:
All the pseudoscientific technobabble. I don't remember TOS ever resorting to this crap to any significant degree.
The stupid "The Federation is a 110% perfect, atheist utopia that never does anything wrong and never uses money" crap.
Making it so that there is never any major conflict between the main characters of the show. Everyone just always gets along like one big, boring family from some '50s-'80s sitcom.
The overuse of human and rubber forehead aliens.
Turning the Klingons into stupid, dirty, one-note brutes.
Never allowing the interesting characters like Data to ever significantly grow and develop.
Oh, and IMO, DS9 didn't fuck up Star Trek. If anything, it rectified some of the damage that TNG had done and restored some of the fun to the ST Universe that had been lacking in it since the TOS films had come to an end.
Warbler said:
DuracellEnergizer said:
I want to bitch about how TNG fucked up the ST Universe, but I don't know if that should go here or in the Star Trek thread.
in what way did TNG f*** up the ST Universe. I do think you can argue that DS9 and Voyager and Enterprise did that, but TNG?
Yes TNG was mostly awesome but it layed the seeds for Star Trek's downfall. Too much of the "We can't do that" and "not that fast, you might break something" attitudes and plotlines crept in. Voyager ---> Enterprise just continued the slow downward spiral into boredom started in TNG (Although I'd say that TNG was never swallowed by it, the characters were too good). Those shows after TNG were built on a shaky foundation that was already crumbling and the fans were getting tired of.
VIZ TOP TIPS! - PARENTS. Impress your children by showing them a floppy disk and telling them it’s a 3D model of a save icon.
DuracellEnergizer said:
The overuse of human and rubber forehead aliens.
This says it all ^.
When the show got so complacent that it would introduce us to new Alien races week after week with ever so slightly different nose jobs, was when the problems started.
Then when it got to DS9 they thought it was exceptable to have the main Alien race (The Bajorans) that the entire show revolved around, have four nose ridges and an earing?! When you had Babylon 5 airing at the same time who had wierd and freaky aliens (with peacock hair, ornate bones growing out of their heads, full reptillian facial appliances or no physical presence at all) then your franchise starts to look tired.
VIZ TOP TIPS! - PARENTS. Impress your children by showing them a floppy disk and telling them it’s a 3D model of a save icon.
There were plenty of exotic aliens on DS9, just not in the major roles, with the exception of Odo and Quark. And don't forget Morn. ;)
IIRC, they did their best to subvert Rick Berman's edict about such elaborate makeup jobs that affected TNG. One reason we barely saw the Andorians at all until Enterprise.
I don't know how B5 handled the logisitics differently, but being in heavy makeup all the time is pretty grueling for an actor. You have to show up earlier than your fellow cast members, (the sun isn't even out yet) and plop down half groggy in a makeup chair hours before you're actually needed on the set. And they do need to take a break from it, which is another reason why a certain character might not be in every episode.
Where were you in '77?
B5 and Farscape both had humans with slight alterations but they also had some truly alien aliens to balance them out and almost every time a bumpy head alien turns up in Farscape Crighton points out how they look like Star Trek aliens.
Robert Llewellyn (aka Kryten from Red Dwarf) was being interviewed on Richard Herring's podcast the other week. He said the Kryten makeup was indeed a nightmare for the first few series, until Red Dwarf got really popular. Then he saw how much abuse and hassle the general public gave the rest of cast, while he kept his blissful anonymity. After that he was happy to spend the time in makeup putting on the rubber mask! x-D
(Every cloud)
I expect Patrick Stewart can't walk down the street without somebody shouting "Make it so" at full volume in his face. I bet Michael Dorn is glad he got cast as Worf.
VIZ TOP TIPS! - PARENTS. Impress your children by showing them a floppy disk and telling them it’s a 3D model of a save icon.
Ryan McAvoy said:
DuracellEnergizer said:
The overuse of human and rubber forehead aliens.
This says it all ^.
When the show got so complacent that it would introduce us to new Alien races week after week with ever so slightly different nose jobs, was when the problems started.
Then when it got to DS9 they thought it was exceptable to have the main Alien race (The Bajorans) that the entire show revolved around, have four nose ridges and an earing?! When you had Babylon 5 airing at the same time who had wierd and freaky aliens (with peacock hair, ornate bones growing out of their heads, full reptillian facial appliances or no physical presence at all) then your franchise starts to look tired.
To be 100% fair The Bajorans were a hold over from TNG and they were made that way so they would contrast with the more inhuman Cardasians who were lizard people and didn't look all that human for TV aliens and lived in places that didn't look very human at all.
I will agree that B5 was better written and had better aliens but I think both TNG and Ds9 were great series that stand on their own. I was just rewatching the third season of TNG on bluray for the first time in years and I was expecting it to be really dated but I have been surprised to find that most of the episodes hold up pretty well.
Maybe this should go in the Star Trek thread (hint, hint. ;))?
Bingowings said:
I sometimes say it loud when Moth3r refuses to turn the cooling units back on.
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The pollen is out and that can only mean one thing. my right ear is stuffed with wax to a painful degree and my rash is breaking out all over my body.
I hate spring!
DuracellEnergizer said:
Oh, and IMO, DS9 didn't fuck up Star Trek. If anything, it rectified some of the damage that TNG had done and restored some of the fun to the ST Universe that had been lacking in it since the TOS films had come to an end.
I agree with you 100% on this. DS9 gave Star Trek it's teeth back.
Jetrell Fo said:
DuracellEnergizer said:
Oh, and IMO, DS9 didn't fuck up Star Trek. If anything, it rectified some of the damage that TNG had done and restored some of the fun to the ST Universe that had been lacking in it since the TOS films had come to an end.
I agree with you 100% on this. DS9 gave Star Trek it's teeth back.
It's my favorite of the spin offs.
I still remember waking up at five every Saturday morning to tape each episode as it aired.
Jetrell Fo said:
DuracellEnergizer said:
Oh, and IMO, DS9 didn't fuck up Star Trek. If anything, it rectified some of the damage that TNG had done and restored some of the fun to the ST Universe that had been lacking in it since the TOS films had come to an end.
I agree with you 100% on this. DS9 gave Star Trek it's teeth back.
Also agreed. DS9 took a few seasons to find its groove -- if Sisko's not bald, you're probably watching the wrong episode -- but man did it get good. I especially liked the moral ambiguities of the Federation in this series. showing that we're not perfect is always important in Trek, even if it's at the cost of some of the Utopian imagery.
Also, seriously. Jeffrey Combs as Weyoun. Andrew Robinson as Garak. PERFECT casting and acting. In fact, I think the whole cast is strong (but they are the standouts.) Hell, even Terry Farrell learns to act after a few seasons; a part of me wonders if she really did get attached to Jadzia.
A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em
bkev said:
Jetrell Fo said:
DuracellEnergizer said:
Oh, and IMO, DS9 didn't fuck up Star Trek. If anything, it rectified some of the damage that TNG had done and restored some of the fun to the ST Universe that had been lacking in it since the TOS films had come to an end.
I agree with you 100% on this. DS9 gave Star Trek it's teeth back.
Also agreed. DS9 took a few seasons to find its groove -- if Sisko's not bald, you're probably watching the wrong episode -- but man did it get good. I especially liked the moral ambiguities of the Federation in this series. showing that we're not perfect is always important in Trek, even if it's at the cost of some of the Utopian imagery.
Also, seriously. Jeffrey Combs as Weyoun. Andrew Robinson as Garak. PERFECT casting and acting. In fact, I think the whole cast is strong (but they are the standouts.) Hell, even Terry Farrell learns to act after a few seasons; a part of me wonders if she really did get attached to Jadzia.
Yeah not to mention that just watching the characters interact was fun and very interesting. The episode where Garak tortures Odo is a stand out if you ask me as is any episode with the Maquis,the fact that they were human and the issues were so complex that often Sisko was hunting them but you never really felt they were the bad guys always made those episodes a favorite of mine.
Oh and any scene where Dukat and Weyoun interacted was a ton of fun to watch.
I really like the episode where Dukat and Sisko crash on a planet and Dukat spends the whole episode trying to justify everything he has done and then just completely flips out at the end.
Fixed that for you. And take this intriguing conversation into the All Things Trek thread. ;-)bkev said:
Jeffrey Combs as Everyone
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Noted.
I have moved my last post there. If anyone wants to continue this please join me in that thread.
I have responded in the Star Trek thread, to multiple star trek posts in this thead.