Sign In

If Lucas did a proper oot restoration for blu ray and dvd would he be forgiven for the special editions and the prequels? — Page 2

Author
Time

I used the academy awards thing as a joke. The academy gave slumdog millionare 8 academy awards and it was the worst film ever. Critics hate everyone of the movies I consider masterpieces. They called blade runner utter garbage. I heard a critic that said Transporter 2 was one of the best films ever say that the Fifth Element was too fast paced and called it just a rushed summer flick (I thought that about transporter 2 LOL) George Lucas could have multiple reasons as to why he doesn't restore the films. He could be ashamed of the fact that he didn't have all the say for the films

"The other versions will disappear. Even the 35 million tapes of Star Wars out there won’t last more than 30 or 40 years. A hundred years from now, the only version of the movie that anyone will remember will be the DVD version [of the Special Edition], and you’ll be able to project it on a 20’ by 40’ screen with perfect quality. I think it’s the director’s prerogative, not the studio’s to go back and reinvent a movie." - George Lucas

<span> </span>

Author
Time

If Lucas did a proper oot restoration for blu ray and dvd would he be forgiven for the special editions

Yes

and the prequels?

No

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Heh, the last two posts kinda highlight something interesting to me:

 

How many times have we heard people say things like "Star Wars was great before it started sucking." It would be pretty easy to forgive the SE if Lucas remastered the OOT because there honestly wouldn't be anything left to complain about on that front. We would actually have both versions in the same presentation quality (1080p).

But there's always going to be that dichotomy between the OT and the PT. For one thing, Star Wars '77 was the last film George Lucas directed for two decades and he got different directors for Empire and Jedi. Some have argued that the man who stepped back into the director's chair for Episode I was a much different person from who we knew and loved. Visual Effects in the OT served the story, and even in the SE not every single shot had some sort of visual effect in it - far from it, in fact. The one big thing to take the edge off of "what might've been" for me is remembering that at least the OT was made first. The prequels - to me, anyway - will always be the prequels.

Author
Time

No don't forgive Lucas, I will only forgive him if in the DVDs he says he appoligizes to us fans for the way he has treated us over the past 13 years and takes a gun and shoots himself in the foot to pay for what he has done. Only then will I forgive him.  

Author
Time
 (Edited)
Anchorhead said:

I'd make the argument that the original deserves proper respect & preservation because it did so much more than what a few gold statues can do.  Star Wars permanently altered the course of film, particularly any film set in space. After Star Wars, outer space adventure had to look & feel real or it was in for some tough criticism.  People wanted the stories not only to resonate with their experiences, but to resemble them as well - that used universe that Lucas presented so perfectly in Star Wars. 

There have been plenty of films that won multiple awards, including best picture, and not had the effect on their genre that Star Wars had. Star Wars went a step further and cemented the (then) recent phenomenon of Summer Blockbuster that had been ushered in with Jaws.  A film's effect on the world is a much more honest measure of it's importance to people than the Academy Awards.  Which, by the way, are voted on by the people in the film industry - hardly an honest measure of value & importance.

 

 

 I agree with ya Anchor.

I always thought that the Original Star Wars needed to be preserved simply because it did change movies.  I would kill for a 5-star BluRay version of the OOT version of SW'77.

I think what Lucas doesn't understand is that the OOT is timeless and those movies may show their age, but each generation loves them just as much.

The perfect example is The Wizard of Oz, the movie has continued to be popular since 1939, even though you and I see that they are 1939 sets, but no one cares, because it is the characters and story that make it timeless, not the production values.   If Lucas understood that the OT is beloved because of Luke, Leia, Vader, Han, the Droids, etc, and the fun story we follow for 3 movies, the effects were always secondary.

 

edit:  I will still stand by for all the problems with the PT we debate here and for all the CGI Lucas used that some love and others hate, IMO, the characters suck and I didn't give a rats ass about Anakin or Padme, thats why I will never love those 3 movies.

Author
Time
Janskeet said:

No don't forgive Lucas, I will only forgive him if in the DVDs he says he appoligizes to us fans for the way he has treated us over the past 13 years and takes a gun and shoots himself in the foot to pay for what he has done. Only then will I forgive him.  

Jesus, dude ... a little much, maybe?

a trolling bantha

Author
Time
 (Edited)
Janskeet said:

...I will only forgive him if [he] shoots himself in the foot...

"How un-civilized" ;)

Besides, there are probably some fans who would prefer him to shoot different parts of his body...more 'fatal' parts.

Star Wars Episode XXX: Erica Strikes Back

         Davnes007 LogoCanadian Flag

          If you want Nice, go to France

Author
Time
 (Edited)
CO said:
Anchorhead said:

I'm all for continuing the petitions, letter writing, and published articles calling for a proper release and pointing out his lies.  I just can't behind the hate threads.  Lucas is someone who really digs his heels in when pushed and strikes me as the kind of fellow that would hold off a proper release just out of spite.

For all his flaws - and where Star Wars is concerned, he has more than can be counted - I just can't get behind the hate.  Through the years, Lucas has given me much more than he's taken from me.

 

I see what you are saying.  I honestly never understood the hate for Lucas for the PT.

 

Hopefully I can help you understand. It comes down to setting a precedence. When your reputation or legacy are seemingly set in stone, so strongly, for so long, that is what people are going to expect from you. There are no ifs, ands, or buts about it. A man has to live up to what people expect of him.

George Lucas' reputation up until the prequels, at least as it pertained to film-making, was that of greatness. He altered the course of history with some smash hits that are upheld as the ultimate classics by the vast majority.

With the prequels, that same vast majority saw poor direction, lazy special effects, and overall: mediocre deliveries.

In those fans' minds, Lucas betrayed them. He broke their expectations of his greatness into tiny pieces THREE MAJOR TIMES IN A ROW. It's that sense of betrayal that leads to bitterness. Such incongruity cannot be expected to be met with warmth and appreciation. It's human nature.

 

"Fuck you. All the star wars movies were excellent. none of them sucked. Also, revenge of the sith is the best."

- DarthZorgon (YouTube)

Author
Time
 (Edited)
DarkFather said:

There are no ifs, ands, or buts about it. A man has to live up to what people expect of him.

 

Lucas didn't have to do anything.  You wanted him to, I wanted him to, we all wanted him to - but that's all it is - our desires to be given what we wanted, what we hoped for.  There was no contract, no guarantee, no unwritten law - no have to.

Lucas didn't have to make a single film after Star Wars.  His reputation at the time, followed by his contribution to Indiana Jones, Empire, etc - those things were\are set in stone and have their place in cinema history.  His work in the 90s and beyond is there to either be watched or ignored - nothing more.  If you dig it - watch it.  If you don't - then ignore it (as I have).

But either way, fans don't have some inalienable right to spew hate.  They can do it alright, and many of us do - myself included - but it's not because some sort of reputational expectations contract has been broken.

You said it yourself;

In those fans' minds, Lucas betrayed them.

Fans can expect all sorts of things - that doesn't mean a director has to deliver them.  For me, he delivered six times (below).  A pretty damn good record in my book.  I'd certainly dig it if I could get a proper release of Star Wars77, but that doesn't mean I have a right to it.

 

 

American Graffiti

Star Wars

Raiders Of The Lost Ark

Temple Of Doom

Last Crusade

Kingdom Of The Crystal Skull

 

*edited to better convey that I was speaking in general terms, not of any one fan in particular.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

You’re killing me, Smalls.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

 

 

Lucas didn't have to do anything.  You wanted him to, I wanted him to, we all wanted him to - but that's all it is - our desires to be given what we wanted, what we hoped for.  There was no contract, no guarantee, no unwritten law - no have to.

 

He had to in order to meet the fans' requirements, Anchorhead.

I am taking a neutral stance. I personally couldn't care less about Lucas or his numerous fanbases. That includes the anti-Lucasites. Like you, I have the Star Wars I need. It's the underground psychological battle itself that interests me. So don't think I'm speaking from my own ass, and implying that I'm one of the fans hateful of Lucas. I'm not. I'm stating my observations.

"Fuck you. All the star wars movies were excellent. none of them sucked. Also, revenge of the sith is the best."

- DarthZorgon (YouTube)

Author
Time
DarkFather said:

 

I am taking a neutral stance. ....So don't think I'm speaking from my own ass, and implying that I'm one of the fans hateful of Lucas. I'm not.

 

I wasn't addressing you specifically as a hateful fan.  I was speaking more to the handful of fans that vomit hate all over the board because they feel Lucas owes them. I've edited my post to reflect that.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

You’re killing me, Smalls.

Author
Time
 (Edited)
Anchorhead said:

I wasn't addressing you specifically as a hateful fan.  I was speaking more to the handful of fans that vomit hate all over the board because they feel Lucas owes them. I've edited my post to reflect that.

Anchor, I also don't like the people that spew hate on the internet, espeically those people on www.aintitcool.com, as you have to read some of those talkbacks about Lucas!  Just to give you an example, "Fuck you Lucas and all of your fat chins you fucking ruined Star Wars!"

In saying that, this is the internet, and as long as people are able to hide behind their computers, and not show their faces, then you are going to get an element that is harsh and negative.

I kinda take those people with a grain of salt, because I GUARANTEE if we all sat down in an focus group and were asked to describe our thoughts on the SW movies, it would be much more civilized, and much more constructive.  But as long as you can just type away and nobody knows who you are, then you are going to get idiots who say, "Lucas is a fat fuck!"  and then other idiots who say, "Attack of the Clones should have won the Academy Award for Best Picture."  That was from ObiRobKenobi2 from www.theforce.net

What I try to do is just engage with people like you Anchor, and others here who I know just want to debate and have an honest debate, as I have walked away here many times when morons have taken over the boards like Gomertonic and a few others who are just trolls.

 

Author
Time

In those fans' minds, Lucas betrayed them.

 

 

 

Kingdom Of The Crystal Skull

 

 

 

 

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

Author
Time

My 2p's worth: What's to forgive? I never begrudged him making any number of Special Editions and Prequels and spin-offs and merchandising deals and wallowing in his own self-regard. If he releases the OOT properly I will forgive him for not doing it before. End of.

Don't you call me a mindless philosopher...!
Author
Time

The SEs are not the problem. It is the fact that he just sits on original versions deeming them unwatchable. (Those are the versions that made you acclaimed in the first place!)

IF the OT is released, fully restored as it should have been long ago-there will no longer be any problems. It is George Lucas after all. Where would we be without SW, ESB, ROTJ, Indy, and THX?

VADER!? WHERE THE HELL IS MY MOCHA LATTE? -Palpy on a very bad day.
“George didn’t think there was any future in dead Han toys.”-Harrison Ford
YT channel:
https://www.youtube.com/c/DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader

Author
Time

Time to throw my two cents in.

Yes, I would forgive him if he fixed the OOT; but the truth is this will never happen. First, the only real hope for the OOT to be restores is for Lucas to die. I believe that Lucas is going to be definitely around for another 20-25 years, and by the time he actually passes away the prints of the OOT will be so damaged that any form of restoration will be impossible. As I said a while ago, if there was some law protecting original works against their own creators, we maybe won't have lament the loss of the OOT; alas, that is not what happened. 

PS I hate to heretical, but I'm fine with the GOUT, even though it is in "grindhouse" quality.

Author
Time

I don't know. I still have a funny feeling that a fully restored OOT exists. Empire of Dreams and the opening crawl to the GOUT really drop a lot of hints at this. Of course, I could be mistaken and only those few shots were restored (just seems unlikely to me). But even if there is no real LFL restoration of the thing lying around, I find it hard to believe nobody else has taken it upon themselves to preserve this thing. Keep in mind, it is Star Wars we are talking about here. This was no poor quality B-movie, this thing has been a hit since its release. Very influencial. Many awards.

There are a lot of powerful people in Hollywood with the ability to make things happen, and with access to things and places our little community could never reach. Legally, George can sit on his movies and prevent an official release, and there is nothing anyone can do about it, if they did, it would probably cause hard feelings, and I don't think anyone really wants any drama between them and GL. But none of this means restorations and preservations cannot be done behind the scenes and hung onto for a rainy day. This is the 21st century man! I have a hard time believing when live in an age where things like this can still be lost forever. Too many people with too much technology floating around. I mean, how crazy is it that an obscure TV broadcast of the Star Wars Holiday Special still exists in pretty decent quality thanks to people owning VCRs in an age where the things were nearly unheard of?

I have absolutely no doubt one day Star Wars will be readily availble with its original visuals in as perfect quality as humanly imaginable. I just don't see this happening in the near future.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

Author
Time

It's all especially ironic when you consider that Lucas is on some film preservation board with Scorcese et al.

In regards to whether LFL is sitting on a nice OOT transfer, well, I suppose that's possible but the actual facts we've gleaned make more sense. Jim Ward noticed all the demand for the OOT on dvd but Lucas only said "fine, just so long as I don't pay a dime to remaster it." Hence they ported the laserdisc master to dvd.

We'll see the OOT restored someday, folks. Hell, if Robert A Harris owns prints of it and even offered to restore it for free, then that rainy day scenario might actually be a reality. Oh, and here's a thought. What if (bear with me here) - what if LFL does decide to hire someone like Harris to restore the OOT for the blu-ray set? They could use that person's attention to detail at restoring - while not altering a thing - as a huge selling point to people like us!

I'll say this, it's not so much a matter of forgiving GL for "not doing it before," it's that he deliberately insulted so many fans by pretending to do it. When I step back and look at the big picture (wish I could, but we're stuck with the GOUT - zing!), this wouldn't have happened if this were any other big successful studio picture, but it's not. It's one of the mere handful of films owned by Lucas, several of which happened to become some of the biggest box office hits of all time (Star Wars and Indiana Jones). At the end of the day, to hold onto his independence, maybe going back to the well an aggravating number of times really is necessary.

But that's just me giving Lucas the benefit of the doubt.

In any event, I didn't have a problem (nothing to forgive) until he fake gave us what we wanted by dumping laserdisc transfers to dvd, something fans had been doing for years.

Author
Time

When I was a child during about 94-95. I thought that George Lucas was the Mozart of film. I still do. He created something I knew I would never be able to witness but with 2 eyes I would get sucked into these movies. During the original trilogy I was not sitting on my living room floor with my elbows on the carpet and my hands on my cheeks. I was flying past Star Destroyers and shooting storm troopers. I was in the battle of Hoth dodging AT-AT's and laserblasts in Bespin. I with my 2 innocent eyes was for those moments, in Heaven. The garden of Eden was not a field of tall grass with waterfalls, it was the dark reaches of space aboard the Millennium Falcon.

Even during 1997 I did not know anything about the special editions. For me my 1990 Vhs boxset was as good as I needed. I honestly didn't care until I got a DVD player for my room in 2000. I wanted to see those films on DVD. I longed for the crystal clear picture that even my mother was given with her Gone With The Wind DVD. 2004 came and I finally got them. The DVD set I had waited for. I was stunned by the opening credits in A New Hope. I could see the stars and the gigantic Star Destroyer booming down the frame in anamorphic beauty. Until I saw the interior shot. Everybody's face was splotchy and Leia was purple. I was fine with that until the "Look Sir, Droids." scene with so much going on completely distracting the intent of the scene. I still wasn't bothered. What made me want to break my DVD was THE SCENE WHICH SHOULD NOT BE NAMED. I was ok with that even. 2006 came and so did another release. I couldn't possibly shell out for another set of DVDs. Luckily I had a wonderful friend who made the mistake I couldn't. He showed me the GOUT. I saw it on his Hi Def television. "What the hell is this?" I wondered. It looked like it was downloaded on YouTube. Could this be what I had waited for most of my life? Could this possibly be an attempt to as you English would say Take the piss? I was ashamed to be a Star Wars fan. Nobody but people older than 15 could possibly know what Star Wars used to be.

George Lucas did not rape my child-hood. He did however, crush my hopes like socks on christmas. We couldn't expect at least a 720p OOT release if George Lucas won't even release his pride and joy's in 1080p. I will keep my VHS's and laserdisc releases for my children but I will not watch the SE DVDs if I can't get a remastered original original trilogy release.

George, I understand why you made the special editions. I just don't get why you want people to forget the films that made you a cinema legend. George, I know you must have atleast taken a peek into this site at least once.

We don't hate you. We love your movies. I play music for people. That is what I do. Everytime I go on a stage and play my music I do it for the people. Everytime I hear any applause, it just lifts me up. George, That is what Star Wars means to us. It is our childhoods. Give us atleast a chance to relive our childhoods. I will continue to support anything you do, But please don't let us be left in silence.

"The other versions will disappear. Even the 35 million tapes of Star Wars out there won’t last more than 30 or 40 years. A hundred years from now, the only version of the movie that anyone will remember will be the DVD version [of the Special Edition], and you’ll be able to project it on a 20’ by 40’ screen with perfect quality. I think it’s the director’s prerogative, not the studio’s to go back and reinvent a movie." - George Lucas

<span> </span>

Author
Time

Amen, EyeShotFirst. Beautifully put!

You know of the rebellion against the Empire?

Author
Time
 (Edited)

If Lucas finally caves for real and releases all the versions, then I'll buy the blu-ray.

I think we should start a new petition for the original versions in HD anamorphic widescreen without the color tampering that plagued the 2004 release. I think it should include screenshot examples of the anamorphic difference and botched 2004 colors just so it's crystal clear to ever noob what we want. 

I have plenty of dvd's. And the jump from dvd to blu-ray is not nearly as big as the improvement dvd offered over vhs and laserdisc. I don't care that much about seeing extra features anymore. The next video release of Star Wars has to be something special, it can't just be average. If the new set has deleted scenes but not the originals, I'll just rent them. I already have 2 versions of each movie, I see no reason to upgrade unless it's a spectacular release with everything imaginable included. If it isn't, I'm not buying.

I hope other people realize they don't need to buy the same movie again, people need to vote with their wallets that we want the real deal.

Take back the trilogy. Execute Order '77

http://www.youtube.com/user/Knightmessenger

Author
Time

I would refuse to sign any petition that feels the need to request it in anamorphic. That is just too asinine. It is just pampering. George knew it should have been anamorphic, he knew that was the standard. He just didn't care.

I'd love to see him release the OUT on Blu-ray in letterbox. It would awesome. At the moment, there are literally hundreds of DVD with far worse quality than the GOUT. However, if George were to pull something like this with BD, he'd have the distinction of having released the worse quality BD ever. Might even win a place in the Guiness Book of World Record. This would truely make my day. Unfortunately, very little George does makes me happy these days. So I won't be holding my breath for this this. :( 

But yeah, seriously, I hope fans don't stoop so low as to spell out that it needs to be "anamorphic" (does that even apply to BD?), it seriously just feels like you are on your knees groveling. "Oh great bearded one! Witness as we jump through hoops for thee! Bless us our lord with thy holy trilogy, this time without the punishment of black bars and low quality. Your will be done o'wise story teller, your saga forever be worshiped, and your..." ah, you get the idea.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape