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If Lucas did a proper oot restoration for blu ray and dvd would he be forgiven for the special editions and the prequels?

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For my part if the originals were restored to their original brilliance and were viable as a theatrical presentation again like the godfather restoration i would leave the prequels and special editions be and be able to enjoy the ones i love.

I'm sorry even if the gout for 1993 was a high quality non anamorphic release from 35mm masters, it was an insult to all the true original trilogy fans to release them in 2006 as bonus material only in such low quality for dvd releases.

Especially since probably most if not the entire trilogy was restored in 1997, i believe the whole thing was restored before the tweaks and added cgi and we are just being lied to and played with in a mean way. Well not necessarily lied to per se but at least only given half truths regarding the restoration done in 97 and 2004.

 

To actually laugh at the people who love these films and then tell them "well you always can watch them on vhs". 

That is the kind of respect the fans who made Lucas a billionaire get.

 

There is very little public documentation of the 97 restoration than a few video clips in some documnetaries and maybe a paragraph in  american cinematographer, cinefex and the ilm into the digital realm.

Sources who worked on the restoration probably had to sign a non disclosure agreement.  So even if you could find the people who the work at ilm, pacific title and ycm labs they probably could not tell you anything.

Could you imagine if there was a 100% restored version of the movies before the added cgi scenes, and that it has been sitting in Lucas vault all these years and that we got the gout purposely to make the 2004 look better or have us forced to watch it.

I mean those anamorphic clips in empire of dreams made me dream of what a real dvd release could be, never to happen now because we are forced to watch the awful destoryed versions of the movies because one person hates the originals and it is not his fans.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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I suppose it's because I've never seen the SEs and only one of the prequels - but I'm not fighting the war the way some fans are, nor do I have the hatred for Lucas that some fans have.  There isn't anything for me to forgive because I'm not familiar with the SEs & prequels.  Truth is, for me, Star Wars77 isn't ruined\destroyed\etc.  I have a watchable, enjoyable copy of the only film of the six I have any interest in. If a higher quality DVD or Blu-ray is ever released, I'll get it.  If not, I'll watch the one I already have.

I do, however, sometimes discuss the SEs & prequels as best I can considering my lack of familiarity, but it's not from a position of anger.  It's more of a "Man...dude's jacked up" point of view. As I've said before, I find his obsession with trying to change the past and his constant lying of the fans to be fascinating behavior, in a train wreck sort of way.  I can certainly see where it would be frustrating for some.  For me - someone who was there in the 70s and experienced Star Wars first hand - I know the truth, so I don't lose any sleep over George trying to tell me I don't.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

So shines a good deed in a weary world.

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Well yes the gout is okay quality if like me you have a 4:3 Sd tv.

But it is not exactly future proof.  Like an Anamorphic transfer done in High Definition would be.

I mean sure for a guy like me who has a laserdisc player i appreciate the gout for what it is.

But what of those people who can afford an hdtv 16:9 set.  You cannot be telling me lucas was unaware that fans own 16:9 HD sets.

You know what i can't get over are those fans who stick up for Lucas and say star wars was not originally shot or released in anamorphic.  I'm not kidding i've heard it all the time.  When a little google searching proves them wrong.

The funny thing is i used to be a huge Lucas apologist and used to stick up for the guy in reference to the special editions and Episode 1.   But because of Episode II and  III and the gout it is very hard to defend anything anymore really.  And it is not like the dude cares.  He is rich beyond the dreams of avarice and treated like a god living at his ranch.

And I would be lying if i did not admit i still love the original star wars trilogy, the original indiana jones trilogy. The original versions of THX 1138 and American Graffiti.

I have even embraced the lesser projects that are seen as commercial failures like willow and young indy.

Up until the last few years i was a life long Lucas consumer.  Since a kid buying the action figures, the games comics, the novels for star wars.  Saw the special editions of empire and jedi twice in theaters, and clones and sith twice i cannot even remember why now.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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I would forgive Lucas.

Restoring the OOT would indicate that Lucas finally has respect for me as a fan of his originals, and I would no longer be a second-class fan to him. It would be like a personal thank-you from the big man for my support of Star Wars. I honestly don't know how much I would even watch them, but having them on my shelf would just make me feel good.

I would finally be able to bury the bitterness.

You know of the rebellion against the Empire?

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I think this hits a snag when one tried to define 'proper restoration'  Does cleaning up the film consitute it as a special edition?  What about getting rid of the garbage mattes?  I'd wager some of us would include this kind of digital work well within the acceptable range of 'proper'.

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Sluggo said:

I think this hits a snag when one tried to define 'proper restoration'  Does cleaning up the film consitute it as a special edition?  What about getting rid of the garbage mattes?  I'd wager some of us would include this kind of digital work well within the acceptable range of 'proper'.

 

I mean the Robert Harris definition of a proper restoration which means not just a home video restoration but saving the films for future generations.  And the ability to screen newly struck prints theatrically.

If Lucas hired Harris it would take millions of dollars to restore the originals to their original state, which i understand he does not want to pay for.

Didn't fox pay the 25 million dollars the restoration cost in 1997?

How much of the that was to cover the reshoots and the new cgi and newly mixed soundtracks one can only guess.

I am not against removing the garbage mattes.  They were never meant to be there or seen, and were left in the movie due to the limits of technology.  I was not against removing those little gaffes in raiders for the dvd like the snake reflection off of plexiglass in the well of the souls.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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I sure would forgive him for his treatment of the legendary originals. As I have said in the past I have never had a real problem with the PT, but the SE crap (esp. ROTJ) and the OOT's treatment by Lucas I see as an absolutean abomination. If he released the oot in great quality I would buy them without a second thought and I would probably never look at the SEs again and all would be well. My two cents.

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Robert Harris has offered to restore the OOT FOR FREE! There may be other costs associated with the restoration, but I imagine it's not happening because Lucas either has zero interest in bothering, or it's an ego thing.

But something is seriously wrong in Lucasland. The format wars are over and it's time for a hi-def release. He can't even be bothered to take his existing hi-def transfers of the 2004 Special Edition (which have aired on TV in HD) and simply dump them onto a bare-bones Blu-Ray.

The Lucasfilm reputation for a quality, cutting-edge product is pretty much gone. But yet they still can't get anything out the door, other than re-re-re-released DVDs.

 

You know of the rebellion against the Empire?

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It would be pretty stupid to have destroyed the originals for all future to come. I simply do not belive that he's done that.

But if he was to restore it and release it proper on Blu many people would not be satisfied. 5.1. mono, 35mm stereo, 70mm 6 channel? Just to name a few things about the audio... There is to much knowledge nowadays and people are to anal to be ever satisfied. It's kinda a lost cause me thinks. I hope I'm wrong. But I'm pretty sure I ain't

 

Good thing though that he didn't put out anything from the '04 high def master on blu&HD DVD's in it's youth.

It might take a couple of years or more, but than it would look good, with some more tweaks perhaps, that we all love heh heh

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skyjedi2005 said:

... those people who can afford an hdtv 16:9 set.  You cannot be telling me..........

That's what I have -  and what I'm telling you is this;

I understand that it could be better - and one day I hope it will be.  However, when I'm watching Star Wars, I'm transported again - in a vast, mysterious universe - and I'm on a lonely desolate planet - and on the Millennium Falcon with a pirate I'm not sure I can trust - and trying to rescue a beautiful princess - and trying to escape from the Death Star - and flying an X-Wing.

All the anger, discussions, alterations, sequels, board discussions, versions, formats, etc, etc - they are nothing but noise that fades away as soon as I press play.

I don't have the angst or hatred because it's a complete waste of time.  It's like Tom Hanks (Jim Lovell) says to Haise & Swigert in Apollo 13 when they start arguing with each other over something they can't change;

"We're not going to start bouncing off the walls for ten minutes, because we're just going to end up right back here with the same problem"

 

 

 

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

So shines a good deed in a weary world.

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Star Wars
DISC 1 - Theatrical Version
- Full Restoration by Robert A. Harris
- Selectable Opening Crawl (1977 Star Wars or 1981 Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope)
- Default Audio: Uncompressed 1977 Stereo
- Optional Audio: Uncompressed 1977 Mono; Uncompressed 1977 70mm Six-Track (Dolby Digital 4.1 Surround - original was 4.2); 1985 Stereo; 1993 Stereo
- If there are differences between the 35mm/70mm besides the audio, then the 70mm Dolby 4.1 track would only be selectable on a seamlessly-branched 70mm version of the film (only the pre-ANH crawl would be available on this one)
- NO effects tweaks WHATSOEVER (this includes garbage matte removal!)

DISC 2 ONWARD - I don't care

Similar setups for ESB/ROTJ.  This is for Blu-Ray in 1080p, of course.

a trolling bantha

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With a proper restoration you wouldn't be able to see garbage matte's anyways.

I don't hate Lucas, and I enjoy TPM and ROTS , but yes I would have new respect for Lucas.

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Between the AFI, BFI, and the Library of Congress, there are several archival quality prints out there. (That Lucas won't allow to be screened.) If the negatives really were dismantled in the process of making the SE's, it's not impossible to do something with the prints.

It would not cost millions to scan the best available prints and clean them up. If Lucas would let Criterion do the OT and THX-1138, I'd be a happy camper.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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Anchorhead said:

All the anger, discussions, alterations, sequels, board discussions, versions, formats, etc, etc - they are nothing but noise that fades away as soon as I press play.

I don't have the angst or hatred because it's a complete waste of time.  It's like Tom Hanks (Jim Lovell) says to Haise & Swigert in Apollo 13 when they start arguing with each other over something they can't change;

"We're not going to start bouncing off the walls for ten minutes, because we're just going to end up right back here with the same problem"

Anchor, you know you are one of my favs here because you are an Original SW fan only, but I have to respectfully disagree with you on this one.

Sure many people go on and on bitching about the PT and SE, which wont change those movies one bit.  But I think the fact that OT.com exists showed Lucas that there is a fanbase for the OOT, and eventually getting the GOUT released in 2006.  Now of course it was a crappy version, but the fact that Lucas relented on 'the version he deemed dead' was a small victory in itself.

Just look at Superman II: Donnor Cut, that release was soley driven by the internet as they sort of did the same thing we did, kept pressing Warner Brothers to go back and re-edit the old scenes, and they practically made a new movie, which costs alot more then Lucas would have to do with the OOT.  Same goes for Bladerunner, as the internet drove that BluRay release for the Original Cut last year.

In the end if Lucas released the OOT the same way Spielberg released E.T. in 2002 (same exact quality transfers, both versions included on the DVD), I would walk away and Lucas would never hear from me again. 

And the new generation of fans can enjoy all the shitty quality SW stuff that is released these days!  :)

 

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Yeah, dvd/home video is a situation where complaining/being the squaky wheel is literally the only thing that makes anything happen. If the trilogy was restored (and yeah, the garbage mattes wouldn't be a big deal if it was done right), not only would I forgive everything from Howard the Duck onward, I might buy some of the new video games. Maybe I'd give the cartoon another try.

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CO said:

Anchor, you know you are one of my favs here because you are an Original SW fan only, but I have to respectfully disagree with you on this one.

Sure many people go on and on bitching about the PT and SE, which wont change those movies one bit.  But I think the fact that OT.com exists showed Lucas that there is a fanbase for the OOT, and eventually getting the GOUT released in 2006.  Now of course it was a crappy version, but the fact that Lucas relented on 'the version he deemed dead' was a small victory in itself.

I definitely agree that the internet can be a very powerful tool when used properly and this very site no doubt (I believe) had a hand in getting us a DVD version of Star Wars77.  My point was more to the relentless Lucas-hate threads where he's burned in effigy on a regular basis.

I'm all for continuing the petitions, letter writing, and published articles calling for a proper release and pointing out his lies.  I just can't behind the hate threads.  Lucas is someone who really digs his heels in when pushed and strikes me as the kind of fellow that would hold off a proper release just out of spite.

For all his flaws - and where Star Wars is concerned, he has more than can be counted - I just can't get behind the hate.  Through the years, Lucas has given me much more than he's taken from me.

 

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

So shines a good deed in a weary world.

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I've been somewhat like Anchorhead over the past couple of years.  I enjoy the GOUT.  On principle, it's annoying, but actually watching it is still as amazing as ever.  I have a high-def screen, and it doesn't look amazing, but it's definitely still watchable, and it's the only official release with the "Episode IV:  A New Hope," and I love that it lacks that.

Then again, it's not perfect.  Only the ESB GOUT doesn't pull me out.  For Star Wars and ROTJ, I get pulled out in the subtitle sequences.  Overly pixelated and outside of the frame (and, when watching it on zoom on my high-def monitor... outside of the screen!).  Forget the dupe grain (well... don't forget it)... to me, this is the biggest problem with all the Star Wars DVDs!  When Greedo confronts Han, I want it to feel like Greedo's lines are a part of the movie, not something my DVD kindly decided to add in as an afterthought.  But again, that's a problem with all the Star Wars DVDs, not just the GOUT.  Whoever decided that was a good idea needs to get his head out of his ass.

As for the garbage mattes, something does need to be done about them.  I don't want them removed.  As far as I've heard, they weren't originally visible in theatres (and I don't recall seeing them in the SE theatrical presentation), so a good restoration with a proper adjustment of black levels should (mostly, at least) take care of that problem.

Oh, and a good cleanup from proper elements would be nice, too.  ^_^  That would be my ideal release.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Anchorhead said:

I'm all for continuing the petitions, letter writing, and published articles calling for a proper release and pointing out his lies.  I just can't behind the hate threads.  Lucas is someone who really digs his heels in when pushed and strikes me as the kind of fellow that would hold off a proper release just out of spite.

For all his flaws - and where Star Wars is concerned, he has more than can be counted - I just can't get behind the hate.  Through the years, Lucas has given me much more than he's taken from me.

 

I see what you are saying.  I honestly never understood the hate for Lucas for the PT.  Hey, I will be the first person to rag on the Prequels, but I never hated Lucas for those 3 movies.   They are what they are, just like that piece of crap Rocky V, I can choose to enjoy them or ignore them in my viewing universe.

I will say after the GOUT was the first time I really thought differently towards Lucas.  I would never hate the guy, because they are just movies in the end, but I will say that I have become frustrated with his disrespect for the original movies, and those morons at TFN take that and run and really disrespect the movies.

If someone enjoys the SE, PT, OOT, EU, when it comes to SW, I could really care less, what bothers me is that Lucas has helped perpetuate this stereotype that the OOT movies are inferior.  He has people on TFN actually saying the real ending in ROTJ is the 2004 version!!  So now we have a bunch of idiots who aren't proclaiming their love for different versions, which I am cool with, they are saying now that THIS or THAT is THE definitive version.  All because Lucas keeps saying, "The Originals dont exist anymore!!" 

I have multiple versions on DVD of T2, Lord of the Rings, ET, The Abyss, Aliens, Superman II, etc, and not once have I even thought what the definitive version was.  I just enjoy the one I like!!!!

 

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Yes, I'd forgive Lucas and I think most OOT fans would too, as we are a lot more rational and accommodating than George Lucas is.

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skyjedi2005 said:

Saw the special editions of empire and jedi twice in theaters, and clones and sith twice i cannot even remember why now.

You are such a liar. In a few posts ago weren't you "mr. I've never seen more than twenty minutes of the prequels."

I guess I will have to say at this point, I cannot forgive Lucas for any of his wrong doings. Even if he did a proper OOT restoration for blu-ray it would make me feel a little better but it would be too little too late. I still would have a lot of anger towards him for waiting so long and keeping us fans in the dark for so long.

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I can understand his need for changing the films. I finish a song or drawing I could tweek em for weeks. An artist is always going to see faults in their work. But changing history for the sake of playing god is just wrong. He can make all of the tweaks he wants but he needs to atleast show the original theatrical version in as high quality as his special edition releases. Show them as here is what I started with. We can't just say dont do the special editions some people like them but we should see the theatrical version the way it was seen in 1977. We could say look kids this was Star Wars when I was your age. I want to let my children know that Star Wars came out in 1977. I don't see why they cant release the original print on dvd or bluray. I have the Amadeus directors cut dvd and it looks and sounds like a brand new film. Maybe if Star Wars won 8 academy awards George Lucas might try to preserve it.

"The other versions will disappear. Even the 35 million tapes of Star Wars out there won’t last more than 30 or 40 years. A hundred years from now, the only version of the movie that anyone will remember will be the DVD version [of the Special Edition], and you’ll be able to project it on a 20’ by 40’ screen with perfect quality. I think it’s the director’s prerogative, not the studio’s to go back and reinvent a movie." - George Lucas

<span> </span>

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There are at least two things I want to see done with the blu-ray:

1) Lucas should make up his mind about how he wants his movies to be. In other words, take a page from Blade Runner and make this version the final version.

2) Remaster the OOT in 1080p. They did it for the SE, they can do it for the OOT.

 

 

and yes, of course he would be forgiven. I never even had a problem until he gave us the finger with the GOUT.

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EyeShotFirst said:

Maybe if Star Wars won 8 academy awards George Lucas might try to preserve it.

 

Rather than 'just' 6?

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EyeShotFirst said:

 Maybe if Star Wars won 8 academy awards George Lucas might try to preserve it.

I'd make the argument that the original deserves proper respect & preservation because it did so much more than what a few gold statues can do.  Star Wars permanently altered the course of film, particularly any film set in space. After Star Wars, outer space adventure had to look & feel real or it was in for some tough criticism.  People wanted the stories not only to resonate with their experiences, but to resemble them as well - that used universe that Lucas presented so perfectly in Star Wars. 

There have been plenty of films that won multiple awards, including best picture, and not had the effect on their genre that Star Wars had. Star Wars went a step further and cemented the (then) recent phenomenon of Summer Blockbuster that had been ushered in with Jaws.  A film's effect on the world is a much more honest measure of it's importance to people than the Academy Awards.  Which, by the way, are voted on by the people in the film industry - hardly an honest measure of value & importance.

 

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