Ideas and Suggestions for :Star Trek The Motion Picture (True Fan Edit) — Page 12

Thanks FF.  While playing with the Vegas Movie Studio trial, I found that it doesn't do the white balance as awesomely as Photoshop did.  Tonight I'm going to play with the Premiere Elements 8 trial and hope it works better.  I did find that Premiere Pro has pretty much the same Levels tool that Photoshop does, so we could have you try to bring out the natural green in the Klingons.  Everything I did in Vegas just tinted all of the colors green, including space, which looked sloppy.  Just adjusting the levels to make space a solid black made the space shots look at least 75% better though.

Jeyl said:

Question in regards to the new opening. The date shows 2270 when Kirk and Crew arrive at Earth with the Enterprise in preparation for it's refit. Shouldn't the date be a little earlier than that since V'Ger shows up in 2271? Kirk has been out of a starship for two and a half years before he took command of the Enterprise again, so shouldn't the date be about two years earlier when they dock the Enterprise? Like 2268 or 2269?

Is that you on YouTube too?  Here's what I put there:

There are debates as to when exactly TMP takes place, apparently.  I like the 5 year mission to be 2265-2270 myself, which brings them home in 2270 as in my video. I've read any year in the early 2270s, but I like 2273 myself (if we did the year on screen, that's what I'm going to suggest after the credits roll).

Memory Alpha gives any year between 2272 and 2277 for the date of TMP.  No one knows, apparently.  Besides, its just a mockup.  None of this is set in stone.  We could leave the year just as vague as it is now.

Quotes from MemoryAlpha:

There is some controversy over the dating of Star Trek: The Motion Picture. The earliest the film could take place is late 2272 (based on information from VOY: "Q2", which stated that Kirk's first five-year mission ended in 2270, and information within the film that Kirk had not "logged a single star hour in two-and-a-half years." The latest the film could take place is 2277, since the Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan style uniforms are in use by 2278. (TNG: "Cause and Effect")

Jeyl said:

Ya, that's me. Didn't want to spoil my good old Jeyl name. That's for Trekmovie.com.

And that's why I knew I knew your screenname from somewhere!

And as you've stated in your links, your estimates would be correct. Just as long as you don't call it "Stardate: 2270.2", than I'll be happy. :)

Yeah, JJ's stardate system is pretty messed up compared to the original, but it keeps us from having to argue about what year it is in the new movie and how many years pass between scenes. ;-)

But the ships weren't supposed to be gray in TOS!  For all of the detail Remastered did, I'm surprised they didn't use the original paint scheme.  They did on the Enterprise instead of making it the blue-gray it looked on TV.  Why not the Klingons?  Then we have "Trials and Tribble-ations" on DS9, where they added the Klingon ship and not only made it green-green, but gave it some of the details present on the TMP ship!

And I have to keep pointing out, I'm not "greening" the ships at all.  This is the color they turn when you make the running lights white instead of light gray and space black instead of dark gray.  I may have to add green to some shots to make them match, but overall I believe this is the true color of the ships.  DarenDoc agrees:

the original was green… (slightly)… I bet though that most of the green was muted due to Apogee’s Blue screen process… which would tend to desaturate and take out the blue bandwidths… so they just chose to make it less…

I'm not upset at you Jeyl or anybody at all, its just strange that no one has brought this up before.

EDIT: I don't think I ever posted the link to Daren's blog where I discuss this with him.  As I say in there, I love the internet.  How else could I discuss this with someone who, for all intents and purposes, worked on the movie?

EDIT2: Here's what I mean about the white balancing:

The window I point to has that shade of blue/gray that's above the white.  The area of space I point to has the slight shade of dark gray that's above the black.  If I set those areas to what colors they OUGHT to be, this color comes out.  However, you can choose what shade of green you want the ship to be by choosing different areas of space.  This is a little more subtle than what I've posted previously.

Bonusly, the black levels being set to space minimizes the appearance of the matte lines, which are solid black. :-D

Jeyl said:

Daren is a really cool guy though. I've listened to all his commentaries including the startrek.com one that was an internet exclusive. I'd hate to be in his shoes thinking of the disappointment that Paramount has pretty much abandoned the Director's Edition of ST:TMP.

I had that commentary on my iPod and ended up listening to it more times than I've seen the movie, I think!

Oh, are you going to take a shot at getting rid of that pesky 'blue anomaly' that's seen on the bottom left of the screen during the Klingon approach and the Epsilon Nine tour??

I'm not sure exactly what you're talking about, but I'm hoping the black level adjustment would fix it.

Chewtobacca said:

Jeyl said:

Paramount has pretty much abandoned the Director's Edition of ST:TMP.

 

That's a shame, if it is true.  I like the director's cut.

I remember Robert Wise saying in his commentary that the Director's Cut audio mix was improved with extra sounds and effects that there was no time to integrate into the theatrical release.  I wonder if they were used for the theatrical cut blu-ray -- which I have yet to purchase. 

The theatrical cut is the theatrical cut, warts and all.

Jeyl said:

doubleofive said: The theatrical cut is the theatrical cut, warts and all.

Intruder Alert! Intruder Alert! Intruder Alert! Intruder Alert! Intruder Alert! Intruder Alert! Intruder Alert! Intruder Alert! Intruder Alert! Intruder Alert! 

Make the bad man STOP!

Hey, I was born in 1983, I have no ties to the theatrical cut.

Angel, here's a matte that is definitely in the movie that need some of your loving.

FF already has a post on this and he really likes these shots, I just feel that they could look less painted.

As you can, see, it has some wonky angles and things that look different from Shot 1 to Shot 2.  I made some notes for you here:

Click both for bigness/the ability to read it.

You can find the original TrekCore screens here.

This 3D Studio model could be used for some possible scaling/angle reference (though it changes too much in the live action plate area to be used flat out).

EDIT: Just noticed the guys pushing the huge cargo container in Shot 1 have completely vanished in Shot 2.  I feel like ImperialFighter, ruining my own enjoyment of the movie by finding random mistakes! ;-)

EDIT2: I don't know about FF, but I'm not set on the turbolifts.  They look too much like the warp cores of later series to me.  Maybe they could be changed...  It's all up to FF really.  He said he really liked these shots, maybe he won't want to change them at all.

Well isnt the second pylon turboil(?) missing from the second shot?

ITs awesome how the lightning and shadows are changing in these 2 images..

How exactly is an animated turboil?

Nothing makes sense from architecture pov :P I guess they looked cool back then :D

Help me JJ.. you are my only hope!

-Angel

I don't mind change, as long as it's a good change.

Like, I'm still sore about the change of Darin on Bewitched. *grin*

If updated turbo lift tubes look good, and they fit with the look of the rest of the ship, then do it.

FF

vaderios said:

Well isnt the second pylon turboil(?) missing from the second shot?

Its a turbolift (elevator).  You can't see it as the camera is right next to the one on the right and blocking the view of it. (I've marked the location in Shot 1 where the camera is in Shot 2)

ITs awesome how the lightning and shadows are changing in these 2 images..

How exactly is an animated turboil?

It glows bright blue, but in the movie you can see a shadow that is the elevator car coming to pick up Kirk.  However, I think this looks too similar to the engines, so they can be changed to non-lighted tubes if you wanted.

Nothing makes sense from architecture pov :P I guess they looked cool back then :D

I guess so.  Its supposed to be a cargo area behind the shuttle bay (which is where the model is coming from).  Kirk looks down on it on his way to the turbolift/elevator.

I wish I could explain it better...

Here is a big problem with this movie I have only now begun to realize. It's Ilia's acting at the start of the film. She does an outstanding job as the probe Ilia that has a more robotic nature. Problem is, she was acting that way before her transformation. It relay hurts her story line in the film, and that story line is a very big one. I always wondered why I did not feel the least bit of concern or sympathy for her character. I think this is why. She should have projected much more emotionalism, and been more of a I'm bombshell knockout and I know it attitude, not a stiff militant type. She had very little sexapel. She should have had more Seven of Nine... 

FF

I'd never really thought Probe-Ilia acted much differently than Ilia anyway.  She's just not a likable character.  Had Phase II actually happened and we gave a rat's butt about these new characters, than maybe.

BTW, Adobe Premiere Elements is crap.  I can do just as much with Windows Movie Maker.

How hard would it be to dub her lines before V'Ger zaps her? I've only seen Persis Khambatta in two other movies, but she was much more emotional in a cheesefest like "Warrior of the Lost World" than in TMP.

I think the constantly changing script and other problems on the set did't give her a whole lot to work with.

She was in this too.

Jeyl said:

I still don't know how you are going to have the Klingons from the opening attack the Enterprise. What reaction shots from the Enterprise are you going to use? Will there be dialogue somehow from the characters? This is the biggest draw for me in regards to this edit because even I can't think of a way of doing it.

I think we're all eager to see how this will be done.  I imagine something like this:

EDIT: REDONE

Shortly after the Enterprise sees the communications relay destroyed, they find themselves face-to-face with the V'ger cloud.

They try friendship messages, and Decker tells Kirk about the alternatives.

As we see the icon of the Enterprise headed towards the cloud on the viewscreen, we see Klingon icons appear there, as a voice from another movie says "Klingons!"

[Spock's part about puzzlement from V'ger is cut]

Kirk and Spock look at each other.  "Force fields up full. Deflectors, now."

The viewscreen shows V'ger on one side, with Klingons on the other.

New shots show Klingons firing on the E from behind, damaging it and injuring Chekov and the Warp Engine.  V'ger fires upon the aggressors first, disintegrating them.

Spock realizes that V'ger is communicating in the million Mhz range, and tries to communicate back as the only shot V'ger needs to destroy them approaches.

This is something I just came up with while scanning the movie.  I think it explains why Kirk and Spock are so eager to raise shields now after they spent time arguing with Decker about leaving them down, instead of them knowing that V'ger is puzzled and assuming that means they're going to be blasted.

Replacing the first attack by V'ger with it being damage from the Klingons would solve the problem I have with the E taking a direct hit from V'ger and surviving for a second shot, while the equally powerful Klingon ships disintegrate on impact (I would assume they have their shields raised all of the time).