logo Sign In

Idea & Info: a Preservation of Alien Evolution doco? — Page 2

Author
Time
Post link
Hello chaps!

I think I might be able to help out with one or two items mentioned here. I have copies of:

Alien Evolution (16x9 PAL from UK broadcast)
Alien Legacy (PAL)
Also the original 1979 'Giger's Alien' documentary (about 25 mins long)

I'm not into the whole torrent thing, but I'm happy to do trades by mail - does anyone have the Alien Saga stuff available?

Author
Time
Post link
Well, if you really want to start an Alien research thread...

Here are the most rare videos NOT included nor in Legacy or in Quadrilogy. The Alien Saga is a separate DVD easy to get for 10 to 14 dollars and thus it is not listed there.

- Aliens, the first director's cut for CBS broadcast. The "middle" version around 145 mins (in NTSC or approx 140 in PAL). By the way is there anybody who can explain to me why PAL movies are always shorter then their NTSC counterparts? The difference is usually 4 mins per 2 hours. Is there a different number of cells per second or what? To Suntech: No, I never saw it and I have no idea which scenes are or are not there. But I really hope to see it before I die...

- Giger's Alien documentary, 34 mins. I have a copy from e-bay. Unfortunately not first generation, poor picture. From Japanese laserdisc (with burned Jap subtitles in the picture). Looking for a clear copy from other source. Last year there was Giger's exhibition in Prague, Czech Republic. I was lucky to meet HIM there, but this is not important. They screened this documentary on a big screen, English version without any subtitles. But their copy was also poor, so I did not even bother to ask if I can get it somehow.

- Alien Evolution, 75 mins. Uncut version of the s/t documentary on disc Q9. I have two copies - on a VHS and on a DVD. None of these is perfect, probably 6 or 7 out of 10 points. Always looking for better one.

- Making of Aliens, cca 30 mins. UK TV broadcast only. I bought a DVD-R copy on e-bay, but that version is not complete, the video ends suddently some 5 minutes before end credits. Not to be mistaken with the short 8 minutes Making of Aliens from Alien 1 UK rental VHS (restored as a bonus on Alien Saga DVD).

- Alien Resurrection audio-visual press kit (or electronic press kit: EPK), 45 minutes. A trailer, interviews, unedited B-roll. Never saw this one and I am trying to buy it from one US collector for two years, unsuccessfully.

I am looking to find perfect sharp & clear recordings of these 5 things many years. Giger is probably the easier one to get. I do not know if there is an US version of the LD. But if not, there is still the Japanese one. Anybody who owns the original LD can make very good DVD-R. Hardest one? The CBS cut of Aliens, I think. Even if somebody had it on a VHS, he probably deleted it when Cameron released the full version in 1991 on LD.

To Jonno: What is the quality of your Evolution? Do you own the Giger LD or just a DVD-R?
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Ash595
I don't think so

if you have:
But if you are interested in movie trailers, this dvd includes as extras, a lot of 20th century fox trailers, with trailers for Alien and Aliens, not seen on the alien quadrilogy set.
[/L]


To Ash595: Can you be more specific about the DVD To the Galaxy and Beyond, please? If you own the disc, of course. How many Alien trailers it includes and which ones exactly? I am surprised to read that they are not on AQ disc 9.
Author
Time
Post link
I don't remember exactly but they are definitely noton the Q9 dvd. I know you can dowload them on movie-list.com, in the forum for Vob files. I gave the trailers to one of the webmasters last year.
Author
Time
Post link
What is in the CBS cut of Aliens that differs from the Director's Cut?
Author
Time
Post link
I have 2 DVDs that are not the best quality but feature some of the items mentioned. Quality-wise this set is bad. The first disc features 2 things that would normally be presented fullscreen, however, they are centered in anamorphic widescreen - losing picture quality. Whereas, the 2nd disc is fine (all fullscreen), but the quality leaves a fair bit to be desired.

ALIEN ARCHIVES DISC #1:
Alien Director's Cut Documentary - Presented by Danny Boyle
Giger's Alien - Vintage footage of H.R. Giger at work on the designs for the film ALIEN

ALIEN ARCHIVES DISC #2:
Alien Evolution (Uncut) - Written and presented by Mark Kermode
Ridley Scott Interview - Don Shay of Cinefex magazine interviews Ridley Scott
Aliens: James Cameron: A Director and His Work - Exclusive visit to the set of ALIENS
The Making of Alien 3 - A rare look behind the scenes of the first three ALIEN movies
ALIEN 3 - trailer & international trailer
ALIENS - teaser trailer

Jonno:
I'd be interested in trading you the above 2 discs for your copies of the Evolution doco and Giger's Alien.

To contact me outside the forum, for trades and such my email address is my OT.com username @gmail.com

Author
Time
Post link
Jiri ! (triffid),

Welcome to the forums

Jiri and I have a bit of previous in the Alien world - glad that you tracked down the OT !

Indeed Luke (klokwerk) - I've got those two discs as well - they were going around Ebay back in the day and "The Archivist" the chap who originally put them out there, had a far jazzed up menu and selection screen courtesy of my good self put on his discs. However the quality of the items are not 100% as you have (both) rightly said. The Making of Aliens is only missing about 30 seconds pre-end credits. So its not so bad - but similarly I'd love to find a full version of a higher quality.

I'm sure there must be a better version of Giger's Alien out there, ideally sans subtitles. You'll also notice that from Disc 2: Alien Director's Cut Documentary - Presented by Danny Boyle - is out of synch. Bizarrely I spent my morning correcting this, so there is now a fully synched up version available. I'm sure there must be a UK user with a better version out there.

Jonno - similarly welcome to the forums ! Switch on your PM's if you are prepared for a bit of interest coming your way no doubt !

Night chaps,

meedermow
Author
Time
Post link
"By the way is there anybody who can explain to me why PAL movies are always shorter then their NTSC counterparts? The difference is usually 4 mins per 2 hours. Is there a different number of cells per second or what?"

Movies in the US are at 24 frames per second, while it is 25fps in PAL land - 4% faster (this includes the pitch of the voices as well, and has nothing to do with the fact that watching PAL for extended periods can make you a eunuch. )

US NTSC is at 30fps, but frames are added to the film so that it comes out at the same rate.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

Author
Time
Post link
Uff, too many answers at once.

Ash595: Thank you for your answer. I will try to check this. Basically, I am not interested in copies, DVD-Rs etc. If I can buy the original somehow somewhere, I do so. Only if I cannot, then I am willing to accept copies. But this DVD (Galaxy Beyond) seems to be really priceless to me, I am not interested in the other sci-fi movies discussed in the main feature, especially not the very old ones. If I want to spend 15 dollars for Alien trailers, I can order Abyss double disc edition. It is a shame I do not have it yet anyway. It contains as much as 6 Aliens trailers and thus some of these must be necessarily „unknown“.

Rijir: Trying to find out. I am not a member of any Alien forum even if there are plenty of them on internet. I mean - maybe this version is something common and normal to these people (but I doubt so). I met only three references to this movie until now. Bill Hunt from Digital Bits mentions it indirectly (Aliens DVD review), using a word „longer“. By the way if you did not read his comments to Quadrilogy there, you really missed something! Making of disc Q6 without Fincher was painful. He even included Lauzirika’s memories (nightmares?) in the book Insiders Guide to DVD (44 pages about Quadrilogy). I did not read it yet, waiting for my copy I ordered. But the shorter version of the story on Digital Bits was amazing. Second reference is on A2 laserdisc (see “laserdisc archives” on disc Q9, one of the last pages). Third one is from an Italian Aliens magazine I bought in 1995 in Milano. Personally, I do not think that this middle version is for any good. I think you can edit it yourself by excluding either the robotic guns plot or Ripley’s daughter plot from the long version, probably the later. But who knows? That is why I want to see it.
Author
Time
Post link
Klokwerk: Jonno has probably the same copies as you (the same quality). I bought the second disc some time ago myself (this is the one with the unfinished Making of Aliens). As I wrote above, to get Giger’s Alien is necessary to find somebody who has the original not-yet-rusted LD. (There is one on e-bay for months. But that Japanese fool asks several hundreds dollars for the Giger 3 LD set.) A. Evolution depends on Jonno’s opinion about the quality of the video.

Meedermow: Nice to meet you here. Hello! I always suspected that there must be something like this somewhere. But I have no time to surf the net and search for these forums. I was just lucky this time. I found also an UK bootleg page of this kind, is it worth of visiting? Yes, you are right, the missing part is not 5 minutes long, I exaggerated a bit. Giger again: As far as I know, there is no other LD edition than the Japanese one (but I may be wrong in this). And maybe also an UK VHS version. I vote for the LD. The Alien DC documentary reminds me that we should finish our transaction. You did not answer to my last mail again… What this „sync“ issue means? Did you repair the sound without lowering the quality of the video? Switched on.

MeBeJedi: Thanks for the answer. You are saying that both have the same total number of frames, but PAL „eats“ them faster and thus the movie ends sooner, OK? I do not understand the second sentence. How can anybody add frames? Do you mean they duplicate some of them like A-B-C-C-D-E-F-F-G-H-I-I-J…... to get 30 into each second?
Author
Time
Post link
I believe I still have my tape of the original broadcast of Aliens on TV. So, if there is something special there I want to know. I doubt it though. Has any deleted footage (other than the director's cut stuff) ever made it out?
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: triffid
He even included Lauzirika’s memories (nightmares?) in the book Insiders Guide to DVD (44 pages about Quadrilogy). I did not read it yet, waiting for my copy I ordered. But the shorter version of the story on Digital Bits was amazing.


I ve got the book and the interview of the Alien DVD producer is amazing and very interesting about the production and the different cuts made to the Making of Alien 3.

Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: RIJIR
I believe I still have my tape of the original broadcast of Aliens on TV. So, if there is something special there I want to know. I doubt it though. Has any deleted footage (other than the director's cut stuff) ever made it out?


I doubt you have the middle version too. I do not know how many times they aired it, but surely no more than few times. All other broadcasted Aliens are the basic short version, except for the Sci-fi Channel - it aired the longest 91 version. Deleted stuff: See the great Aliens Illustrated Screenplay by Paul Sammon. If you compare the final shooting script with the longer DC, you get only two very short missing scenes. Everything else is exactly as seen in the movie word-by-word. Foster's novelization is older, it reflects the original script and gives you a hint about other missing stuff. But not all of these scenes were actually shot. It includes the famous "cocooned Burke" scene (three photos of it you can find on disc Q4 in photogallery), so this one really exists. I am unsure about the others (and legendary Ripley's snakers as well). But I bet my soul that the FSS script is accurate and that the two short scenes were shot. First one takes place in the middle of the council. They take a short break and Burke instructs Ripley how to answer forthcoming series of questions. He buys a donut in an automat. Second one takes place right before Hudson says Smoking or no smoking? and finds the colonists marks on the floor plan. Ripley and Hicks are escorting Newt towards the rest of the team as she suddenly sneaks under a table and tries to escape. Hicks is more careful this time and watches his hand since she bited (bitted? sorry, I do not know this word well) him already before. He says something like "Hope she got no rabbies" (again, I do not know if this is the word for an infection...). THE ONLY ONE shot of these you can watch yourself is the latest one. Check disc Q4, a 10 sec excerpt of this shot is in the main documentary, part Post-production (I hope).

And hey, US people, it reminds me of something. Can you please explain to a dumb Czech what this "Smoking or no smoking?" sentence means? I never understood it and our stupid translators (both in Czech dubbing and subtitles) did not translate it into something understandable. Is it a reference to some song or what? And why? What is its function in the movie? Nobody and nothing smokes there... (except for Apone, of course).


Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: meedermow
triffid: some more clarification on the PAL/NTSC 25/24 frames conundrum !

Thanks, I will check the links. I tried to visit this Australian page in September and it was very slow then, so I cancelled my attempts to dig something in there (I was looking for some R1xR2xR4 comparisons missing on Dvdcompare.) Hope its performance is better now.
Author
Time
Post link
I ve got the book and the interview of the Alien DVD producer is amazing and very interesting about the production and the different cuts made to the Making of Alien 3.


Yes, that is what I heard about it. I can't wait to put my hands on it.


Author
Time
Post link
Hi folks, sorry to have been slow with the replies - net access is a bit intermittent at present...

Ok, here's a bit more about what I've got:

Alien Evolution:
This is my own transfer from a digital UK broadcast (I'm in the UK, in case that wasn't clear!) It was initially taped onto PAL DV as a 4:3 recording of the receiver's 16:9 output - squeezed, in other words. I subsequently encoded this and authored a simple DVD-R with some other odds and ends (it was early 2003 IIRC, and I wanted to backup some of the laserdisc stuff which of course ended up in the Quad set anyway).
I'd rate the picture and sound 8 (bearing in mind the digital broadcast origin, which doesn't always equate high quality!)
The 4:3 squeezed image resizes itself just fine on my widescreen set, and if a 16:9 flag could be added to the main video stream it would play as 16:9 anywhere (including PCs) - I just haven't really had a reason to re-author the disc as yet.

Giger's Alien:
This is an Ebay job - a DVD-R containing both Giger's Alien and Giger's Necronomicon. It's a 'DVD_VIDEO_RECORDER' volume, so I'm guessing the seller just plugged his Japanese lasers into the DVD recorder to achieve this (it's NTSC with Japanese subs of course).
I don't have the disc to hand right now, but from memory it's a serviceable picture - maybe a 5 or 6.
A short while ago I used Womble to isolate Giger's Alien as a separate stream... my plan was to combine both these programs on one disc but the PAL/NTSC difference would mean converting one of them, which I wasn't too happy about. Anyway, I can supply the Alien bit on its own if required.

I think the most satisfying solution would be to distill two discs from the available materials - one PAL, one NTSC (I also have an 'Alien' section from a BBC Scott documentary, broadcast in about 1992 - would fit on the Evolution disc nicely). If the owners of other elements are willing to supply them, I could put these together and distribute (or pass on masters for torrenting)? Just a thought.
Author
Time
Post link
Jonno: What a surprise! You have almost 1st generation copy of A. Evolution. This is very interesting.

My copy of Giger's A. came from e-bay too (together with Necronomicon), so we both have the same one. I do not like this DVD, I believe that I could be able to make a better transfer. That is why I want to find somebody who owns the original LD.

Does anybody have the DVD "James Cameron" from AFI's "The Directors" series? Is there any behind the scenes footage from Aliens?

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00005Y71Z.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Jonno
Hi folks, sorry to have been slow with the replies - net access is a bit intermittent at present...

Ok, here's a bit more about what I've got:

Alien Evolution:
This is my own transfer from a digital UK broadcast (I'm in the UK, in case that wasn't clear!) It was initially taped onto PAL DV as a 4:3 recording of the receiver's 16:9 output - squeezed, in other words. I subsequently encoded this and authored a simple DVD-R with some other odds and ends (it was early 2003 IIRC, and I wanted to backup some of the laserdisc stuff which of course ended up in the Quad set anyway).
I'd rate the picture and sound 8 (bearing in mind the digital broadcast origin, which doesn't always equate high quality!)
The 4:3 squeezed image resizes itself just fine on my widescreen set, and if a 16:9 flag could be added to the main video stream it would play as 16:9 anywhere (including PCs) - I just haven't really had a reason to re-author the disc as yet.

Giger's Alien:
This is an Ebay job - a DVD-R containing both Giger's Alien and Giger's Necronomicon. It's a 'DVD_VIDEO_RECORDER' volume, so I'm guessing the seller just plugged his Japanese lasers into the DVD recorder to achieve this (it's NTSC with Japanese subs of course).
I don't have the disc to hand right now, but from memory it's a serviceable picture - maybe a 5 or 6.
A short while ago I used Womble to isolate Giger's Alien as a separate stream... my plan was to combine both these programs on one disc but the PAL/NTSC difference would mean converting one of them, which I wasn't too happy about. Anyway, I can supply the Alien bit on its own if required.

I think the most satisfying solution would be to distill two discs from the available materials - one PAL, one NTSC (I also have an 'Alien' section from a BBC Scott documentary, broadcast in about 1992 - would fit on the Evolution disc nicely). If the owners of other elements are willing to supply them, I could put these together and distribute (or pass on masters for torrenting)? Just a thought.


I can provide the rare trailers from "to the galaxy and beyond dvd" if you like?

Author
Time
Post link
Jonno,

I know this is off topic but you didn't happen to record In The Teeth of Jaws when it was on in the UK, did you?
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Jonno
If the owners of other elements are willing to supply them, I could put these together and distribute (or pass on masters for torrenting)? Just a thought.


Jonno: If you want the 2 discs I mentioned (Alien Archives 1 & 2), just let me know via PM.

To contact me outside the forum, for trades and such my email address is my OT.com username @gmail.com

Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Jonno
Hi folks, sorry to have been slow with the replies - net access is a bit intermittent at present...

Alien Evolution:
This is my own transfer from a digital UK broadcast (I'm in the UK, in case that wasn't clear!) It was initially taped onto PAL DV as a 4:3 recording of the receiver's 16:9 output - squeezed, in other words. I subsequently encoded this and authored a simple DVD-R with some other odds and ends (it was early 2003 IIRC, and I wanted to backup some of the laserdisc stuff which of course ended up in the Quad set anyway).

It is a pity that there is the "other stuff" on the disc. A 1 and 1/4 hour documentary deserves to be the only feature on a single layer DVD-R. Everything else lowers the picture quality of the whole final product. I must agree with DigitalfreakNYC's point of view on this issue. Three maximum quality DVD-Rs are better than one DVD-R with the same stuff compressed to fit on it. But since you resized and burned it already, there is no way to get the maximum possible quality again, right? I mean, the master tv recording probably does not exist anymore. But even if so, it is still the "closest-to-source" Evolution DVD-R I heard of.

Author
Time
Post link
digitalfreaknyc - if Jonno didn't record it - I have it.

Shoot me a PM if you need
Author
Time
Post link
Triffid: Yes, my copy of Evolution is pretty much a first gen recording. I don't have the disc with me here so I can't check the individual file size, but I do recall setting the compression to max out the DVD-R, factoring in perhaps 10-15 mins of trailers and interviews. So we're looking at a likely average rate of 6.5 Mbit/s as opposed to 8 Mbit/s (and I'd normally avoid setting the average so high anyway - might just be our local players, but they can often choke on too high a bitrate from a DVD-R).
There's a TINY chance I might still have the original tape, but it will be quite some time before I can check that for you, sorry!

I like the idea of making a better Giger's Alien transfer. A guy on the Home Theater Forums would frequently mention GA in the run up to the Quadrilogy's release... the hope was that it would be included in its entirety, he even offered Fox the use of his LD to master it! Needless to say, that didn't happen (though I think they use several clips in the disc 2 documentaries).

Ash595: I'm certainly interested in those trailers - will contact you via PM shortly.

digitalfreaknyc: Happy to make your acquaintance - I'm enjoying your Blade Runner enormously! I do have my own copy of In The Teeth of Jaws actually - taped in 1998 (probably on a mono VCR, I'm afraid) and transfered a bit more recently. No idea how it will compare to other versions, but you're welcome to a copy - will speak to you via PM once I've checked it's worthwhile.

klokwerk: Sounds like there's some stuff on those discs not found elsewhere (I never saw the Danny Boyle doc, for one thing!) Will be speaking to you too...

Ok, I'm going to be out of contact for a few days but if anyone wants to request (or offer) anything, feel free to PM and I'll get back to you asap. Cheers!
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Jonno
I like the idea of making a better Giger's Alien transfer. A guy on the Home Theater Forums would frequently mention GA in the run up to the Quadrilogy's release... the hope was that it would be included in its entirety, he even offered Fox the use of his LD to master it! Needless to say, that didn't happen (though I think they use several clips in the disc 2 documentaries).


Yes, I saw this guy's offer some time ago. He claims that his LD is in perfect condition. But I cannot convice somebody to cooperate with me using my weak English. So I did not even try.

There are other ways. I am in touch with a Czech production company specialized on documentaries. They are working on Giger's biography for almost three years. During Fall they spent some time with him in NY and now, after their return to Switzerland, the documentary should be ready for release. The DVD should include the old Necronomicon documentary among other stuff and I am recommending to them to add Giger's Alien too. If there will be both (or even all three together with Passagen) these rare LD documentaries, the DVD collection may sell much better, don't you think?