Idea & Info: 'Watchmen - The Graphic Novel Cut'... — Page 4

It would change your entire argument.  In the movie, Ozy uses Doc to create the machine which he uses to kill millions by telling Doc it was for a good cause.  If the squid was in the film, it would have to be even longer as it would need more time to establish what happens and would take away from other elements that needed to be covered.  With the director's cut at 184 minutes,its already teetering on the edge of being too long.  

Your complaints about Rorschach's mask is just stupid, as they did it just like and as much as in the comics.  Just because you don't "remember" thats how it was doesn't mean your right.  Since you don't seem to have much substantial knowledge about the book, perhaps you should re-read it and realize that the movie is actually a very faithful adaptation and easily the best adaptation of any of Moore's work.

Squid WILL NOT be in my edit.  It's impossible to do.

I don't have a problem with the new ending.

Rorschach's mask is fine, and will stay as is.

END OF DISCUSSION IN THIS THREAD ON THOSE POINTS.  Jesus.

If you want to start an argument about the merits of the novel-to-film changes, start a new fucking thread.  Nothing's going to be exactly the same when you adapt something from one medium to another, and you shouldn't expect it to.  I'm not doing this edit to make it exactly like the novel, just more in the spirit of the novel in the areas where I thought the film just didn't work.

--edit--

Sorry for the grumpiness, it's 2AM here and I'm tired.  I didn't expect to see one new post here, let alone 15 that amount to arguing over something I've already discussed earlier in the thread.

" I didn't expect to see one new post here"

easily the stupidest thing I´ve heard in a week or even a month, what the fuck are you doing in an online forum?!

"realize that the movie is actually a very faithful adaptation and easily the best adaptation of any of Moore's work"

yeah I´m sure Moore agrees with that

you whiners are more ridiculous than Transformer 2 fanboys

Leper, I'll kindly ask you to stay out of my thread from now on.  You clearly have no interest in this project if I don't do it exactly the way you want it done (even though what you want done is pretty much impossible).  And how are we whiners?  I see no other whiner in this thread except you.

You're adding nothing constructive to the discussion here.  If you make one more post in this thread, you will be on my ignore list.  (Why I'm not putting you on it now is beyond me, but whatever.)  I'll also urge others who read and follow this thread to do the same.

fuck you for that haughty answer, who do you think you are!

The creator of this project and thread.

You're on my ignore list now.

Leper Messiah TR said:

fuck you for that haughty answer, who do you think you are!

Charmed I'm sure.

Leper Messiah TR said:

fuck you for that haughty answer, who do you think you are!

Nice job. I think Chainsaw Ash won't be the only one to have you on his ignore list.

Very interesting project. I like the ideas and mock-ups very much.

One important thing, I think, would be to try and tone down the villainy of Veidt if he is to be more like the character from the comic. In the comic he's not at all villainous. Often he seems very humble and sincere.

I thought that one way of toning down his villainy would be to gently play muzac in the background of his interview with the press, to make him seem more like a harmless sell-out rather than a dangerous tycoon. So long as it isn't particularly intrusive, of course.

I also heard tell that in the Ultimate edition of Watchmen they'll be working scenes from "Under the Hood" into the film. Even if they aren't, I think a significantly edited down version of Under the Hood could work well in a fanedit. These scenes could appear where each chapter from the novel ends.


Dan: What do you expect? The Comedian is dead...

Announcement theme from Under the Hood plays.

Cut to Under the Hood.

Presenter: Welcome to... etc.

And then, just after Rorschach's Pagliacci speech, the section of Under the Hood concerning Doctor Manhattan could play as everything following this point mostly centers on him, his interview, his personal history, whether or not he'll return to Earth etc.

Just an idea. It may not seem necessary, but it certainly does mirror the shape of the graphic novel more closely.

And one last thing. Ever seen the motion comic? I really like it, and I absolutely love Lennie Moore's score. I know you're probably going with Philip Glass, but I think it's worth considering especially since each character has a theme composed for them in the motion comic.

Dan's theme is especially good. It plays as he walks away from his weekly meeting with Hollis Mason. Listening to it, it reminded me somewhat of heroic themes from "Batman: The Animated Series" but played with a downbeat melancholy, as if the real or perceived glory days of this hero had gone by. At least, that's what I got from it.

Anyway, considering getting your hands on a fully isolated version of the motion comic OST would be a job in itself I think you can pretty much stick with Glass.

Alright, I'll try to respond point-by-point, but I apologize if I miss anything:

- I will most definitely try to make Veidt more of an ambiguous, less straightforwardly-evil character.  Several friends of mine who hadn't read Watchmen that I saw the movie with instantly asked me if he was the bad guy when Dan visits him in his office.  I'd like to change that fact.
- I haven't seen Under the Hood, and I'm not convinced that inserting portions of it into the film will help the film in any way.  Sure, it may bring it slightly closer to the graphic novel, but if that comes at the expense of the film's ability to stand on its own, then I won't do it.  I'll reserve judgment on this issue until I've seen Under the Hood (which likely won't be until the Ultimate Cut comes out).
- I've seen (most of) the motion comic, and I agree that the score is good.  If I can find a way to use portions of it, I certainly will, but I wouldn't hold my breath for that one unless a soundtrack album is released.

Sorry to see that certain people have been giving you crap over this edit, ChainsawAsh.
(both I and my planned fanedit of Watchmen, "Two Minutes Till Doomsday", have also been getting some hatred from the 'Watchmen fans' over at the FE forums)

For Under the Hood, I really don't think that adding portions of the 'documentary' would improve the main film - stylistically, I think they're too different and if anything, the UtH segments would slow the film pacing down (which is already kind of a problem with the film anyway).

So it turns out that the "Ultimate Cut" of Watchmen (with Black Freighter cut in) is going to be 251 minutes long, which shakes out to 4 hours, 11 minutes.  I'm going to try to keep my cut down below 4 hours, and am strongly considering doing an alternate cut that doesn't include Black Freighter, to keep it to a more manageable length.  I feel that the film could benefit greatly from some alterations, even if Black Freighter is gone.  (This version will most definitely not be called "The Graphic Novel Cut," though.)

The "Ultimate Cut" is coming out on November 3, so I expect work to start on this after the end of the semester (mid-December), seeing as how I'll be busy as hell editing stuff for school during the rest of the semester.  It'll give me plenty of time to watch the UC and make a more detailed plan for changes, though.

--edit--

It appears that 251 minutes was a typo on TheDigitalBits' part - the actual runtime is 215 minutes, or 3 hours, 35 minutes.  Compared with the DC's 3 hours, 6 minutes, that's 29 minutes added - Tales of the Black Freighter is 38 minutes long, so that's 9 minutes cut from TOTBF, at the very least.  Bear in mind that additional footage has been added to transition to and from Black Freighter.

So I guess it's not so much a cut-and-paste job, and they're actually cutting it to make it work within the story.

And seeing as how the final run time is about 3 and a half hours, which is what I was aiming for at the maximum, I will not be doing two versions - it will be just one, with Black Freighter intact.

I think this runtime news also means that none of Under the Hood has been cut into the "Ultimate Cut," as some had speculated.

I will not be using Under the Hood at all.  The style doesn't fit.  And I'm tentatively thinking that I won't need to add in more Black Freighter, either - while I haven't seen the short film, I'm guessing that it's had things added to it from the GN in order to make it a more complete, standadlone story, and that those added elements were removed for the "Ultimate Cut."

And at any rate, even if I do end up adding footage, it still won't approach 4 hours by any means, what with everything I'll be cutting, and the limited amount of available material to add.  So I feel safe saying that there will be only one version of my edit, with Black Freighter included.

I will not be using Into the Hood at all

Under the hood, surely? ;)

I can't recall if this has come up, but are you planning to do anything about the green tint on the film? Re-watching I'm noticing that while at some points it is subtle, at other points it really stands out.

Fixed ;-)

And I haven't noticed a green tint myself, but I'll definitely give it a closer look when I get to actually editing it.  Thanks for pointing it out.

I was just watching the Director's Cut, and noticed something that I just know will pull me out of the movie every time I see it, so it will be cut:

When Laurie and Dan are eating dinner, one of the patrons says, "I'm glad I ordered the four-legged chicken."  I mean, really?  What the fuck?

Oh, and the Ultmate Cut comes out next week.  As soon as I get it, I'll start working on a preliminary "offline" cut just to get the structure down.

ChainsawAsh said:

I was just watching the Director's Cut, and noticed something that I just know will pull me out of the movie every time I see it, so it will be cut:

When Laurie and Dan are eating dinner, one of the patrons says, "I'm glad I ordered the four-legged chicken."  I mean, really?  What the fuck?

 This is present in the graphic novel. I thought it was a nice touch, what's so terrible about it?

Is it, really?  I'll have to check ... *runs to bookshelf*

*returns* Well, there *is* a four-legged chicken, but no one says "I'm glad I ordered the four-legged chicken," which sounds ridiculous and takes me out of the scene entirely (now that I've noticed it).  It's going.  Sorry.

I really should change the name from "The Graphic Novel Cut," as it seems like it's not going to be that simple ...

Alright, I just downloaded the "Ultimate Cut" in order to peek through it and plan ahead for when I actually buy it and start editing.

And I must say, even if the Black Freighter scenes slow the pace of the film (I'm not sure that they do, as I've just been skimming through to find those scenes), they're worth it for the new footage of the newsvendor and the kid, which does several things:

- Makes you care for the newsvendor and the kid more, so you aren't asking "Who the fuck is that?" when they focus so much on them when they die in the explosion at the end
- Gives Walter Kovacz more screentime before his true identity is revealed, making it more of a surprise when that happens
- Gives Hollis Mason more screentime, making you care about him a bit more
- Gives the fat New Frontiersman guy a bit more screentime, but not much (still nice)
- Gives a better introduction to the knot-tops
- An interesting, and particularly sad, new lead-in to New York blowing up

After skimming through this version, I'm very confident that I can successfully accomplish my goals with this edit.  I'm really looking forward to starting work on it - but first, I need several things, such as a copy of the DVD and a new hard drive.  (Or a copy of the Blu-Ray, a Blu-Ray drive, and a new hard drive, if I want to go HD with this edit.)

ChainsawAsh said:

Fixed ;-)

And I haven't noticed a green tint myself, but I'll definitely give it a closer look when I get to actually editing it.  Thanks for pointing it out.

I'm NOT posting this as a correction, just to help point out the green. Like I said, sometimes it's all well and subtle but at other points it stands out. This scene isn't too bad really, it's just a shot I had handy...

Johnny Ringo said:

ChainsawAsh said:

Fixed ;-)

And I haven't noticed a green tint myself, but I'll definitely give it a closer look when I get to actually editing it.  Thanks for pointing it out.

I'm NOT posting this as a correction, just to help point out the green. Like I said, sometimes it's all well and subtle but at other points it stands out. This scene isn't too bad really, it's just a shot I had handy...

 I definitely like it better without the green tint.

Good eye.  I haven't really noticed that, but I'll definitely play around with some color correction when I get to that stage.