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Idea: Sound mix options? Where?!

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 (Edited)

You know what everyone is skipping out on? Alternate audio! Instead of doing a DD 2.0 of the standard LD audio, use that space to drop in a DD 2.0 encode of the old 1985 LD soundmix. That way, you could hear how Ben Burtt changed it from the original theatrical stereo mix to what eventually made it to the 1993/95 LDs. You can get a full uncompressed stereo track off any old Fox video “Special Widescreen Edition” LD’s. I think that would be space well spent. Hell, if youre doing DL discs, you might even be able to squeeze it on there as PCM! Now wouldn’t that just be the coolest?

What do you mean there's no ice? I gotta drink this coffee hot?!
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The ISOMIX versions have a music-only audio track, so it's not being completely ignored. I'm with the idea for the early sound mix with the newer video mix...I like that a lot...
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"use that space to drop in a DD 2.0 encode of the old 1985 LD soundmix. That way, you could hear how Ben Burtt changed it from the original theatrical stereo mix to what eventually made it to the 1993/95 LDs."

Better yet...an alternate track that has each soundtrack coming from different speakers.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
"use that space to drop in a DD 2.0 encode of the old 1985 LD soundmix. That way, you could hear how Ben Burtt changed it from the original theatrical stereo mix to what eventually made it to the 1993/95 LDs."

Better yet...an alternate track that has each soundtrack coming from different speakers.


They came pretty damn close to doing that in the commercial release.

The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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[face_laugh]

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Well, I can look into offering the use of my brothers old Fox LD's of SW (and ESB, if that turns out to have been altered as well.) I am fairly certain he owns the multidisc un-time compressed version. I think that doing the 1993/5 LD PCM, DD 2.0 commentary (Def version of course), DD 2.0 old mix, and DD 2.0 score only (courtesy of ISOMIX) would make the coolest DVD. Now if only we could combine it with Mike's new restored video. Hot damn!! What a kick in the pants for the official DVD that would be, huh?
What do you mean there's no ice? I gotta drink this coffee hot?!
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Ok. My brother definitely has the multi disc version of the old WS Laserdiscs. If anyone wants them to add the vintage soundmix to their DVD, please just reply and I will get them to you.
What do you mean there's no ice? I gotta drink this coffee hot?!
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Richter, is there any way you could get me a rip of the audio from your '77 mono bootleg? I could give it a shot at cleaning it up and restoring it for possible inclusion in a project. I could do a DL DVD with all the mixes (77 mono, 85 stereo, 93 stereo). Maybe someone could "license" me their remaster for the video.
What do you mean there's no ice? I gotta drink this coffee hot?!
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*_* I'd like to see the '77 mono boot myself, or a restoration of it...

Moll.

"Right now the coffees are doing their final work." (Airi, Masked Rider Den-o episode 1)

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Well, I am more than willing to give an audio restoration a try. I've done similar work before. I have worked on some old live recordings of my friends band, and also the airy distant camcorder recording from my own wedding, with fairly decent results. If someone could get me a straight rip of the bootleg's audio, I'd love to give it a go.
What do you mean there's no ice? I gotta drink this coffee hot?!
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I like Pemdawg's suggestion. This would be really cool.... I know a lot of people expressed interest in usiing parts of the '85 sound mix for MeBeJedi's transfer. It would be cool if someone could provide both a Faces/Definitive soundtrack as well as the '85 soundmix. This would give us all an easy way to compare both mixes used... of course the original '77 mix would be great and while your at it, why not the ISOMIX Isolated Musical Score.... okay... getting carried away but for a DL set there would definitely be room if the audio was compressed (DD 2.0).

Okay, who is up for it?
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"It would be cool if someone could provide both a Faces/Definitive soundtrack"

Believe me, the Faces and DC soundtracks are 99.5% identical.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
"It would be cool if someone could provide both a Faces/Definitive soundtrack"

Believe me, the Faces and DC soundtracks are 99.5% identical.


Yeah but there are a lot of people who would like to have the '85 sound mix while others prefer the Faces/DC mix so having both would give us the best of both worlds and wouldn't be a problem at all for a DL disc.

LD transfers are about preservation and a lot of people look at the Faces/DC mix as the "original" OT mix since it is closer to the '77 mix than the '85 version, however, there is dialogue and sound effects in the '85 mix that a lot of us have gotten used to over the years.

For me, when I watch ANH and it gets to the scene where R2 is pulling up the Death Star schematics to point out the location of the tractor beam.... when I watch that scene and C-3POs dialogue is not there I look at the blank faces on Luke, Han and ObiWan and think... awkward moment.... did somebody forget a line?

I was there for opening night of ANH and I know that the '85 mix is not the version I saw as a kid but it does have many benefits to it.

Thats me and probably a lot of other people as well. If we had the option to watch the movie with either sound mix we would then be able to view the movie the way we as individuals want to.

With a dual-layer transfer this can be made possible.
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Zion, here is some info from the DavisDVD site.... this information is specifically about the '85 ANH audio mix but I but I believe ESB and ROTJ were updated as well. MeBeJedi or anyone else, please chime in... I believe the '85 mix of ESB included new sound effects during the Hoth battle scenes... not sure about ROTJ. Here is the DavisDVD info:


1985 ANH Digitally Remastered Audio Track
This release is a little-known milestone in the history of Star Wars. When Fox decided to digitally remaster the audio track for this re-release, sound designer Ben Burtt asked to be involved. What Burtt actually ended up doing was that he created an entirely new sound mix for the film. So in reality, the audio for this video release is the fourth official Star Wars audio mix (following the three original theatrical mixes - see the first entry at the top of this page). Among the clean up and digital repairs, some interesting new changes were added. These include sweetened sound effects, new stereo'd effects (Jawa voices after Artoo's capture) and, most noticeably, the addition of C-3PO's line in the Death Star ("The tractor beam is coupled to the main reactor in seven locations. A power loss at one of the terminals will allow the ship to leave"). This new sound mix was used for every subsequent video release until the 1993 THX "Definitive Collection" remastering.
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"Yeah but there are a lot of people who would like to have the '85 sound mix while others prefer the Faces/DC mix so having both would give us the best of both worlds and wouldn't be a problem at all for a DL disc."

Oops, I thought you were implying a difference between the Faces and DC soundtracks. My bad.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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What are the differences between the so-called '85 audio mix and the sound mix used for the Faces/DC set?

The DavisDVD site includes information about the changes to ANH but nothing about ESB or ROTJ. I know in the old "bootlegs" thread there was a big discussion about the audio differences, specifically about ANH. Someone mentioned that ESB had some different sound effects.

The '85 audio mix was first made available on a VHS remastered set and later came out on LaserDisc between '89 and '90 with an ANH reissue/correction in '92.

I know that the '85 ANH audio mix has significant changes that would warrant an inclusion on a fan-based DVD transfer but what about ESB and ROTJ. Is it worth it?

MeBeJedi, you had discussed some ESB sound effects only found on the '89 LaserDisc. What are your thoughts on this?

For those of you who think you might have the '85 mix, here are some links to help you out:

Blam Entertainment - '89 ANH Release

Blam Entertainment - '89 ESB Release

Blam Entertainment - '90 ROTJ Release

You can check out more information on all Star Wars releases in any format at the DavisDVD Site:

DavisDVD

And for everything LaserDisc specific, check out Blam Entertainment:

Blam Entertainment Group
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"MeBeJedi, you had discussed some ESB sound effects only found on the '89 LaserDisc."

??? I don't remember saying that for ESB. Just for ANH.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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The original discussion about the different sound mixes starte around page 86 of the "bootlegs" thread:

Bootlegs Thread - Audio Mix Discussion

For those that don't want to filter through that very lengthy thread, here are some of the posts:

Originally posted by: Patrick R.
The 3PO line isn't on the Faces set either. It is the one where he says, "The tractor beam is coupled to the main reactor in seven locations. A power loss at one of the terminals will allow the ship to leave."

I'm still working on my versions, but I've had to take time away from it and not sure when I will be finished. I have the Definitive Collection with the Leia footage in tact. A friend also sent me small capture files of 3PO's line and "Close the blastdoors!". I really don't like the blastdoors line as the guy's voice sounds different than the one who said, "Open the blastdoors". For capturing devices, I have a Canopus ADVC-100 and a Leadtek WinFast TV2000 XP Expert. I haven't had time to experiment with the WinFast yet. I also have a Pioneer CLD-D703 LD Player which I really like. It doesn't have AC-3, but can be modified. I just don't have a reason to since none of my LD's have AC-3. I only own the Star Wars DC LD's and an unopened copy of A Christmas Carol with George C. Scott that came with the plater.

Anyway, I will keep everyone posted on my progress. I was happy with my original attempt until I saw how good everyone else's was and how much mine had dot crawl in them since I used S-Video. I did buy a much better S-Video cable and will test it on both devices to see if the crawl still appears. If it does, I will use high quality Composite cables.

I originally split each film up onto two DVD's and used uncompressed PCM for the audio. I really want to make dual layer versions with uncompressed PCM if the dual layer technology ever allows me to put the layer break where I want so that it will be hardly noticeable. I also hope the -R DL format comes out someday.

I forgot to mention that I plan to at least capture a small audio segment from my SE VHS tapes before I sell them of the snowspeeder spinning out of control and exploding in ESB. I'm sorry to keep mentioning it, but that sound effect is missing from both the Faces and Definitive Collection LD's as well as the 1995 THX VHS.

Patrick

Originally posted by: drcrawn
just found the Fox WS releases of SW and ESB for 10 dollars a piece at local used video store in Seattle on laserdisc. Asked the guy to hold them for me. My jaw dropped when he said 10 buck a piece...I didnt tell him they were worth at least twice that...

Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
Attaboy. Hey, if your ESB LD has the "snowspeeder wipe-out" sound byte, you may have to send it to me.

[EDIT] I meant, as a .wav file (though it would be nice to extract it digitally from the LD.)

[EDIT] You know, I totally forgot I had this LD as well...http://www.davisdvd.com/images/starwars/esb_ld6.jpg
• RELEASE DATE: 1985

• STUDIO: CBS/FOX

• RELEASE FORMAT: Laserdisc

• COMMENTS: Three Standard-Play CAV discs (Cat# 1425-84)

• TECHNICAL COMMENTS: Pan & Scan transfer with with CX-encoded Stereo Surround sound

• OTHER COMMENTS: This edition is not time compressed and also marks the first time ever that fans can analyze the film frame-by-frame (thanks to the CAV format)
- DavisDVD
Anyone know if this version has the sound byte? I guess I'll have to bring a TV in my office to play the LD, since my computer is busy.

Oh, I have this disc also...http://www.davisdvd.com/images/starwars/rotj_ld1.jpg
• RELEASE DATE: 1986

• STUDIO: CBS/FOX

• RELEASE FORMAT: Laserdisc

• COMMENTS: Two Extended-Play CLV discs (Cat# 1478-80)

• TECHNICAL COMMENTS: Pan & Scan transfer with CX-encoded Digital Stereo Surround sound

• OTHER COMMENTS: The film is spread over three sides


(They are fool-screen, so I never really bother with them. Of course, that didn't stop me from buying them. )


Originally posted by: Patrick R.
Originally posted by: drcrawn
Does anyone here actually have the Definitive LDs with the missing 7 seconds of ESB? Those are tremendously collectible, very rare indeed. Also I heard mention of laser rot. The definitve ld are not know for having laser rot are they?


I have the Definitive Collection LD's with the Leia Welding footage in tact. The early release was suseptible to rot, but I'm not sure about the version I have since it was a later pressing.

MeBeJedi,

I believe the missing C3PO line is included in one of those early LD's. If you look at this

link, he mentions this about the 1985 VHS release:
"WHAT YOU MAY NOT HAVE KNOWN: This release is a little-known milestone in the history of Star Wars. When Fox decided to digitally remaster the audio track for this re-release, sound designer Ben Burtt asked to be involved. What Burtt actually ended up doing was that he created an entirely new sound mix for the film. So in reality, the audio for this video release is the fourth official Star Wars audio mix (following the three original theatrical mixes - see the first entry at the top of this page). Among the clean up and digital repairs, some interesting new changes were added. These include sweetened sound effects, new stereo'd effects (Jawa voices after Artoo's capture) and, most noticeably, the addition of C-3PO's line in the Death Star ("The tractor beam is coupled to the main reactor in seven locations. A power loss at one of the terminals will allow the ship to leave"). This new sound mix was used for every subsequent video release until the 1993 THX "Definitive Collection" remastering [ Very Special Thanks to David C. Fein for this important revelation ] ".

He also says this about the 1992 LD. "Coupled with the 1985 audio mix, this could very well likely be the best presentation of the film."

So, I would bet that line was there.

I have seen a copy someone made of the movie with that line and the "Close the blastdoors!" line inserted into the Faces version of ANH. They are a little jarring. The person who made it did a good job. It's just that you can tell the lines were recorded at different times. Kind of reminds me of Vader's added line in ESB of, "Inform my Star Destroyer to prepare for my arrival.". It is really James Earl Jones performing that line according to Ben Burtt. However, it doesn't sound right because that line was meant to be in ANH, but they never used it.

When you get a chance, check out the '92 LD and see how the line sounds compared to 3PO's other lines during that scene. If you had the entire '92 LD, I would probably use that for the audio and maybe the video as well.

I just looked at Ebay and found this:

Laserdisc. I wonder if this is the 1989 or the 1992 version.

Patrick


Originally posted by: Klingon_Jedi
Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
Actually, it sounds a little out of place. It was definitely recorded at a different time.


That's the sound mix I know by heart, as I have the 1992 VHS.



After skimming through this discussion from the old "bootlegs" thread I can see that there are some like me, who remember the 3PO "tractor beam" line and find that scene a little out of place without it and then there are others who found this line to be distracting as it sounded as if it were recorded at another time and just added in. Some said that the "close the blast doors, open the blast doors" snippet sounded odd because the voices were not the same.

Maybe I have been making a mountain out of a mole hill.... what does everybody else think? It seems some of us like the 3PO "tractor beam" line while others do not and MeBeJedi seemed kind of anxious to add the "snowspeeder wipe-out" into ESB.

Is this sound mix being discussed in the old "bootlegs" thread as wel as here all from the '85 sound mix or from other versions?

Anyone care to add to this discussion?
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So anyway, can someone provide me with a copy of the 77 mono bootleg audio? Sooner I get it, the sooner I can start working on it.
What do you mean there's no ice? I gotta drink this coffee hot?!
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"and MeBeJedi seemed kind of anxious to add the "snowspeeder wipe-out" into ESB."

Actually, I was anxious to know if this was true or not. Someone else brought this up, and I never got around to verifying it myself.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>