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Idea: Sifo Dyas removal from AOTC? — Page 3

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Commander--

Re: using Qui Gon -- to give you some feedback

I think you've got a great idea there. It charges up a scene that otherwise feels mystifying and ultimately forgettable. Sypho Dias just disappears into the smoke, but Qui Gon makes you prick up your ears and really want to know what's going on--

Which would be the only downside I can see-- it would be more important to sew this up with Qui Gon's name thrown in there. How would you ultimately expose that it was Dukoo using his old apprentice's name? Do that and you've got my favorite solution.

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Originally posted by: Hardcore Legend
Well, the Jedi don't know that Jango Fett is with Dooku until after Yoda has used the Clones to attack the Seperatists. Since they work so successfully, and are actually under the control of the Chancellor who has Supreme Powers now, there really isn't much they can do. They are losing their control, civil war is on the brink and they are desperate.


I thought they'd know that Fett was bad as soon as he attacked Kenobi on Kamino. Or when he followed him to Genosis and he attacked him again. I still can't imagine that the Jedi wouldn't be suspicious. Especially once they knew that Dooku was a Sith. Didn't someone else say that the sith were known for their tricks and deceptions. It's just weak writing if you ask me. Yoda or Windu would have suspected and I think Kenobi would have definately figured it out. Heck, he knew Fett was bad news when he connected him to the Bounty Hunter that was trying to kill Padme.

Xhonzi

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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Agreed with Xhonzi (though I still think Fonzi would be a cooler name. )

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Originally posted by: Commander Courage
Here's something out of left field I thought up you might find interesting:

LAMA SU: Please tell your Master Qui-Gon Jinn that we have every confidence his order will be met on time and in full.
OBI-WAN: I'm sorry? Master - ?
LAMA SU: Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jinn. He's still a leading member of the Jedi Council, is he not?
OBI-WAN: Master Jinn was killed almost ten years ago.
LAMA SU: Oh, I'm so sorry to hear that. But I'm sure he would have been proud of the army we've built for him.


OBI-WAN: Then you must know Master Qui-Gon Jinn?
JANGO FETT: Master who?
OBI-WAN: Qui-Gon Jinn. Is he not the Jedi who hired you for this job?
JANGO FETT: Never heard of him.
OBI-WAN: Curious.

OBI-WAN: They say [cut]a[cut] Master Qui-Gon placed the order for a clone army at the request of the Senate almost ten years ago. Did the Council ever authorize the
creation of a clone army? (With maybe another line about how Qui-Gon couldn't have or whatever.)

Though there wouldn't be any resolution, it might be interesting to go that route. If you had to explain it, it could be assumed Dooku ordered the clones in his deceased apprentice's name.


I actually tried doing that, but the problem is here are only a handful of times when Obi-wan says the name Quigon. And when I tried inserting those in to the sifodyas dialogue it was immensely noticeable due to different tone and inflection in Ewan's voice. A noble idea though CC but I haven't found a way yet to practically pull it off.

The other option would be if Darth Maul was attributed with ordering the clones, since the jedi would not actually know his name.

Or....


If Lama Su said "Please tell THE EMPEROR, that his order will be met, on time"

"I'm sorry..."

"The emperor of the galaxy"

Obi-wan looks perplexed

etc etc.

Would take some doing but would be interesting. a sure fire way that the audence knows exactly who they're talking about but the jedi don't look as dumb
And I dance. And I sing.
And I'm a monkey, in a long line of kings.
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Ultimately, Palpatine has to be behind the clone order, whether acting through Dooku or not. So Obi-Wan has to be unable to connect the clones to Palpatine (or anyone else) but needs to be intrigued enough to follow Jango to Geonosis to investigate. The name of Sifo Dyas, a former Jedi Council member, who is now dead, provides the lack of connection, the unknown "Tyranus" provides the intrigue.

Using the name of Qui-Gon, as Commander Courage suggested, provides both, without making reference to a character who is otherwise absent from the movies. It also provides Obi-Wan with a more personal motivation to get to the bottom of the mystery.
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Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
Agreed with Xhonzi (though I still think Fonzi would be a cooler name. )


Errr... I'll let the Albanians know....

But thanks!

Fonzi

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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LOL. Believe me, it's a compliment.

"Would take some doing but would be interesting. a sure fire way that the audence knows exactly who they're talking about but the jedi don't look as dumb"

That's actually a FANTASTIC idea, since we find out later in the next film who "The Emperor" is (quite unlike the half-assed "Sifo Dyas" character.) It would also make for some great foreshadowing about where Palpatine is headed.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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I think it's a little far-fetched that Lama Su would accept an order from "the Emperor of the galaxy" when no such position existed. I know the Kaminoans are supposed to be out of touch, but...
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I was wondering if they were going to explain in Episdoe III that Sifo Dyas == "Si-Dyas" or "Sidious".

Xhonzi

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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Well even if it was just "the emperor"
And I dance. And I sing.
And I'm a monkey, in a long line of kings.
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"I think it's a little far-fetched that Lama Su would accept an order from "the Emperor of the galaxy" when no such position existed. I know
the Kaminoans are supposed to be out of touch, but..."

I have to agree with Rebel Scumb. "The Emperor" sounds fine (and no one said anything about "Emperor of the known galaxy.) It's not like the Kaminoans double checked on Sifo, and this was for the Army of the Republic, no less.

As Obi-wan's friend said...they will do what you want if you have the money. Why should they care what the outcome is (which they obviously didn't even with Sifo-Dyas.)

Heck...it would be cool if you could get the Kaminoans to say this was Order number 66.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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well lama su could easily be dubbed with an alien language. its all the coresponding dialogue for obi and jango that would be tricky
And I dance. And I sing.
And I'm a monkey, in a long line of kings.
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Originally posted by: Rebel Scumb

If Lama Su said "Please tell THE EMPEROR, that his order will be met, on time"

"I'm sorry..."

"The emperor of the galaxy"


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My bad. I missed that. Nonetheless, saying "of the galaxy" wouldn't make sense. "Emperor" is just fine.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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It's another way to do it. Of the two mentioned here, I prefer the Qui-Gon option. I don't believe Palpatine would have ordered the clones under the name "The Emperor" 10 years before his plans come to fruition.
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While "The Emperor" is an interesting suggestion as well, THX has pointed out the various flaws with that scenario. The other two feasible characters to be implicated are Sidious, or Qui-Gon. Sidious would be an accurate name, just lying about his status on the Jedi Council. Dooku's reveal of Sidious as the Sith Master, his identity as his apprentice, and Jango's affiliation with him would allow one to connect the dots and solve the mystery. Or would it? Dooku's question of "how the Republic came up with an army so quickly" is confusing in any edit, and would have to be cut. Plus there are so many names and assumptions involved, this option is almost as confusing as the original Sifo-Dyas himself, which is what we are trying to avoid.

Qui-Gon would be a front for Dooku or Palpatine, plain and simple. As THX pointed out a familar character known to the Jedi enchances the importance of the mystery. Also this allows the use for, "...was killed almost ten years ago." I always thought audiences would confuse Sifo-Dyas with Qui-Gon anyway, with that line and Obi-Wan's reference to him as "my master." If the only issue here is dialogue, Ewan McGregor has soundbites all over the place; Star Wars interviews in particular would be a good place to look for "Qui-Gon Jinn," whose name he mentions at least once in the RotS special features DVD (I don't know about the other 2 prequels). Again though, the issue is closure. It would have to be revealed at some point Dooku ordered the clones in Qui-Gon's name to create mystery and the Jedi would have to discover it. I have a couple of ideas but aren't sure if they'd be doable.
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Originally posted by: xhonzi
I thought they'd know that Fett was bad as soon as he attacked Kenobi on Kamino. Or when he followed him to Genosis and he attacked him again. I still can't imagine that the Jedi wouldn't be suspicious. Especially once they knew that Dooku was a Sith. Didn't someone else say that the sith were known for their tricks and deceptions. It's just weak writing if you ask me. Yoda or Windu would have suspected and I think Kenobi would have definately figured it out. Heck, he knew Fett was bad news when he connected him to the Bounty Hunter that was trying to kill Padme.

Xhonzi


I was wrong before about Jango. They knew before that he was in league with Dooku before the Senate created the Clone Army.

ObiWan calls back to the 'old folks home' before the battle with Jango and says they are using the bounty hunter named Jango Fett, but he does not believe that the Clones have been involved in the plot to assassinate Senator Amidala. That line is in there. The fact that Jango Fett was the source 10 years ago and that he has now been hired to kill Padme is seen as a disconnect by the Jedi.

When they next hear from Obi Wan, he has discovered HUGE amounts of a Droid Army ordered by the Trade Federation and Seperatists. The Commerce Guilds and Corporate Alliance both pledged their armies to Count Dooku, who he has now linked to attempting to kill Padme. At this point, the Jedi have no choice but to accept the Clone Army. Their ability to use the Force is diminished and they cannot fight a full scale war. If they do not use the Clones, the Republic will be destroyed by the Seperatists.

The Jedi serve the Senate, and the Chancellor was granted the power to form a Grand Army. At that point, since they do not distrust Palpatine yet...if they completely went against the wishes of the Senate and the leader, they'd be turning their back on the Republic. Even if they walked away, they have no control over the use of the Clones.

The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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Also, the use of Qui Gonn enhances Dooku's later statement that he wishes Qui Gonn were still alive.
The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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Just to stir up this old debate, could Sifo Dyas be Darth Plagueis?

It makes sense to me: after all, we already know both Dooku and Palpatine's regular and sith names, so if it was one of them or Maul who ordered the clones, they'd have been be using Dyas's name as a cover. This is a standard theory.

But it's more convincing that the real Sifo Dyas ordered the clones, which means he had to be in league with Palps, so it stands to reason that he was secretly Darth Plagueis. He died ten years ago, when his apprentice, Sidious, killed him. Which means he came up with the Clone War plan and Palps just bumped him off and carried it out.

It also neatly ties together the two mentioned but unseen characters.