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Idea: OT Edits to Fit the PT and/or the Larger Saga (A Resource Thread, Hopefully) — Page 4

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4throck said:

Adding color to the Emperor’s shuttle creates a strong connection with the prequels.
And of course solves the problem of reusing the same shuttle on ROTJ again and again 😃

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Man, that does look snazzy!

So would this be the only shot you’d have to color? The others we see in ROTJ are either Tydirium or Vader’s shuttle, right?

“That’s not how the Force works!”

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Jar Jar Bricks said:

SandMTV said:

Change Vader’s line, “Obi-wan once thought as you do.” to “Padme once thought as you do.”

Did anybody try this yet? He says Padme in the suit in ROTS

I once did a mock up of a rescored/redubbed conversation that included one of the “Your mother” attempts and a brief Across the Stars musical motif as Vader mentions her. Maybe I could give it a try in time.

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Could Obi-Wan’s line to Yoda be changed from “when you taught me” to “when you found me?”

You’ve got to ask yourself one question: “Am I making Carrie Fisher’s ghost proud?”
Well, are ya, punk?

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We do have the resources to mix together a choppy sentence, “Was I any different when you taught the Jedi Master who taught me?”

Well done. I will disengage self-destruct initiative.

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Hal 9000 said:

We do have the resources to mix together a choppy sentence, “Was I any different when you taught the Jedi Master who taught me?”

*“…when you taught the Jedi Master who taught the Jedi Master who taught me?” 😄

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Oh, yes, right. 😉

Well done. I will disengage self-destruct initiative.

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Worst Edit Ideas Thread moment. 😄

I like Ed Slushie’s idea though.

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Jar Jar Bricks said:

Ed Slushie said:

Could Obi-Wan’s line to Yoda be changed from “when you taught me” to “when you found me?”

That sounds like an easier method than mentioning Qui-Gon. Especially since we don’t actually know which Jedi retrieved Obi-Wan as a kid. Reminds me of Plo-Koon and Ashoka.

I don’t know how meaningful it is for a 3 year old to be impatient. Maybe cutting the idea from the PT about Jedi needing to start their training so young too would be a good idea?

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SparkySywer said:

Jar Jar Bricks said:

Ed Slushie said:

Could Obi-Wan’s line to Yoda be changed from “when you taught me” to “when you found me?”

That sounds like an easier method than mentioning Qui-Gon. Especially since we don’t actually know which Jedi retrieved Obi-Wan as a kid. Reminds me of Plo-Koon and Ashoka.

I don’t know how meaningful it is for a 3 year old to be impatient. Maybe cutting the idea from the PT about Jedi needing to start their training so young too would be a good idea?

Most people here use Hal’s prequels to some extent, so that isn’t an issue.

Tragedy of Vader - A Novelization of The Rise of Skywalker

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But starting Jedi training young has important narrative function. They do that so the younglings don’t have a chance to form attachments to their parents (or anybody else) and be taught from the start to not be attached. The reason why they said Anakin was too old to be trained was because he was attached to his mother.

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G&G-Fan said:

But starting Jedi training young has important narrative function. They do that so the younglings don’t have a chance to form attachments to their parents (or anybody else) and be taught from the start to not be attached. The reason why they said Anakin was too old to be trained was because he was attached to his mother.

Plus Luke himself was regarded as too old for training by Yoda at first (though granted this exchange at the time didn’t imply Jedi spent literally all their life in the Order)

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G&G-Fan said:

But starting Jedi training young has important narrative function. They do that so the younglings don’t have a chance to form attachments to their parents (or anybody else) and be taught from the start to not be attached. The reason why they said Anakin was too old to be trained was because he was attached to his mother.

When it’s summarised like this you really get the sense of what total jerks the Jedi were turned into in the prequels. It’s funny how the characters portrayed as a child abducting, brainwashing, dispassionate, celibate cult are the heroes! I know this isn’t the thread for it, but it cannot be overstated how much all that stuff has to be cut from the prequels.

My homeworld is Australia so be wary of timezones!

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Chase Adams said:

It’s funny how the characters portrayed as a child abducting, brainwashing, dispassionate, celibate cult are the heroes!

Being honest at least this makes Luke’s beliefs in TLJ feel much more poignant.

I really liked the idea on paper of seeing an imperfect, overly dogmatic Jedi Order which fails because of their disattachment from the Force, decaying along with the Republic. But I wish this deconstruction had been played with more in the prequels to really drive the point home.

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Knight of Kalee said:

I really liked the idea on paper of seeing an imperfect, overly dogmatic Jedi Order which fails because of their disattachment from the Force, decaying along with the Republic. But I wish this deconstruction had been played with more in the prequels to really drive the point home.

The issue with this though is that aside from the dialogue in the OT, we’re never given any look into how a functioning Jedi order should behave. Never in the films do we see any kind of order of Jedi collectively training padawans to become knights in the way we’ve been described they should. Aside from that, if the Jedi Order is a failure and all the Jedi are dicks from the very beginning of the saga, then how could their complete destruction at the hands of the Empire and Vader have any sort of impact or significance? My point is that the order in the prequels shouldn’t have been so doomed to fail. I love TLJ, but Luke’s callback to these events in the prequels is kind of gloomy to me, like another huge reminder of the enormous ‘what if’ aspect that the prequels are looked back at with.

My homeworld is Australia so be wary of timezones!

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(FWIW, in my prequel edits I retained Qui-Gon saying that Anakin would’ve been identified early in the Republic. So not necessarily 3 years old but the gist is still implied.)

Well done. I will disengage self-destruct initiative.

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Aside from that, if the Jedi Order is a failure and all the Jedi are dicks from the very beginning of the saga, then how could their complete destruction at the hands of the Empire and Vader have any sort of impact or significance?

It’s about the Sith striking after the Jedi had fallen into decadence. The idea here is that the Jedi aren’t fundamentally bad, but that they had become bad over centuries.

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Honestly I find it fitting that the Sith waited to seize their chance until the Jedi were weak and short-sighted. It just should have been dwelt in more in the prequels. For example, giving it more thought to the idea of the dark side clouding their perception and their ability to use the Force being diminished, as they say. Then Luke’s TLJ arc and shift in his view of the Jedi would have been way more fulfilling.

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Right. Or have someone like Qui-Gon comment more on his problems with the Order. We know he is a little bit of a rebel, Obi-Wan says as much when he mentions it.

OBI-WAN : Master, you could be sitting on the Council by now if you would just follow the code. They will not go along with you this time.

But not a lot of time is spent on these issues.

It makes me think of Pop Culture Detective’s video on the flaws of the Jedi Order. It’s a great analysis, but the ironic thing to me is that PCD seems to believe these issues were unintentional on Lucas’ part. I’m more of the belief that these flaws were intentional, although sometimes it is hard to tell when you listen to Lucas’ interviews (correct me if I’m wrong). I also think their flaws not being discussed in the text more directly made it unclear to fans if Lucas had any self-awareness when he wrote the Jedi this way.

This seems to be one of the reasons fans seem to be enjoying the High Republic content that we’re now getting. We get to see the Jedi at their best, and a functioning Republic that actually gets shit done. So if you read those books, we see how the Republic and the Order began to decay from within by the time we get to the Prequels.

Talking about the issues with the Jedi Order has always been fun for me, since it’s flaws have become pretty integral to the conversation. It does make me wish TROS had made a clearer statement on the future of the Jedi. Rey reaffirms the necessity of the Jedi, but never indicates whether or not she will make the same mistakes as the past Jedi did. Despite its flaws, that was one reason I liked the DOTF script.

TROS Rey:

REY: (softly) Be with me. Be with me. Be with me. (opens her eyes) They’re not with me. Ugh.

LEIA: Rey. Be patient.

REY: (sighs) I’m starting to think it isn’t impossible… to hear the voices of the Jedi who came before.

DOTF Rey:

REY: ‘Balance.’ Dark suffocates the light. Light extinguishes the dark. Over and over. How is that balance?

LUKE: I know that anger. I had it. My father had it too.

REY: So says my master. And his master before him. A thousand masters, so eager to tell us how to live.

Pretty stark contrast. While it isn’t perfect, I at least can appreciate the effort to comment on the Jedi’s problems and how they need to change. But I think I would’ve had Luke play a more active role in teaching Rey on how the new Jedi need to change.

But regarding Obi-Wan’s line, I think it should be kept as-is. If you’re going with the line change for ESB so Obi says, “There you will find Yoda, a Jedi master who instructed me”, then the line “Was I any different when you taught me” is still valid. I recall someone shortening it to “Was I any different” but it creates this awkward pause. You could possibly make it “Was I any different when my master taught me”, but again, I just don’t think it is necessary.

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It makes me think of Pop Culture Detective’s video on the flaws of the Jedi Order.

You mean he made a video that wasn’t about characters’ sexual misconduct?

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Anakin Starkiller said:

It makes me think of Pop Culture Detective’s video on the flaws of the Jedi Order.

You mean he made a video that wasn’t about characters’ sexual misconduct?

He did! Shocking, I know. He did read a fair bit of misogyny into the prequels, claiming that they had the subtext of “women lead men to ruin” or something similar. It’s… a bit of a hot take.

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That was when he lost me. The fact that the people he was afraid of losing were both women is a coincidence. He was born without a father and Padme is his wife so of course he’s afraid of losing her. He was also concerned for his children too, which he did not know for sure was male or female. It’s not that they’re women, it’s how attached he was to them.

It’s as if he completely forgets about Palpatine, who was just as responsible for Anakin’s fall. Just like how he forgot that Leia wasn’t the only one of Luke’s friends he was concerned about.

His whole channel is overanalyzing things in the search for misogyny where none exists.

My Star Wars Fan-Edits
Proud creator of Dinosauria: Ascension, Domination, Downfall

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G&G-Fan said:

His whole channel is overanalyzing things in the search for misogyny where none exists.

That and taking so long in between uploads it’d make Fredrik Knudsen/Atrocity Guide blush. Except your average Fredrik Knudsen video has five times the research that Pop Culture Detective does and is invariably more engaging. Why watch another “these movies don’t like women and are therefore bad” video when I can learn about the Austrian Wine Poisoning, the Dolphin House, Deep Blue, the HaseKara Calamity/doxing saga, or TempleOS?

Pop Culture Detective got popular because he was on the “good” side of GamerGate, not because of any serious talent as a video essayist. While I do like some of his videos and agree with a lot of his points (e.g., why prison rape jokes are terrible), he’s hardly a standout.

But back on topic. My suggestions for little edits to better blend OT and PT would be to add back in the “this Sith Lord, sent by the Emperor, will be our undoing” line into ANH, the aforementioned Obi-Wan line tweaks, and maybe a little vision sequence in ROTJ to include a slight ROTS throwback (so Luke knows the face of young Anakin/Padme’s name). That way, an upgraded Hayden ghost (i.e., no Shaw body and a more wholesome smile) and Vader saying “Padme once thought as you do.” makes sense.

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Knight of Kalee said:

Chase Adams said:

It’s funny how the characters portrayed as a child abducting, brainwashing, dispassionate, celibate cult are the heroes!

Being honest at least this makes Luke’s beliefs in TLJ feel much more poignant.

I feel like it does quite the opposite. The stuff the prequel-era Jedi do is pretty despicable. Child trafficking, unjust wars, terrorizing the galaxy, etc. With the implications of the prequels, and prequel-era EU content in mind with TLJ, it feels like musing on whether or not the Nazi Party had to end.

Ignoring all that makes TLJ more poignant. The problems with the Jedi Luke specifically mentions in TLJ are a lot more subtle and focused. “The Jedi were too possessive of the Force, which caused their downfall and the suffering during the Empire” vs “The Jedi kidnapped children and committed war crimes and other acts of violent atrocity”.

It’s also why, if the prequels were really going for a deconstruction of the Jedi Order, it didn’t really work. But I really don’t think they did, I think the “The Jedi were bad, actually” is more of an EU concept than something actually supported by the prequels.

The prequels feel like they try to justify the weird behavior of the Jedi/Republic. Anakin doesn’t actually turn to the dark side because the Jedi failed to help him because of their weird celibacy rules. In the prequels, Anakin turns to the dark side because he wasn’t celibate. The celibacy rules were there for a reason. The Republic isn’t actually a corrupt, non-functioning state, the prequels trace pretty much any problem with the Republic back to Palpatine. None of its problems are inherent in the prequels. The Jedi train toddlers for a reason, if you start as a Jedi too old, bad things happen. Kidnapping children is just an implication you get from reading between the lines.

This is why I don’t think you miss much from cutting this stuff out of the prequels. They weren’t actually part of any deep storyline until the EU recontextualized them to be. The celibacy rule is just there to make Anakin and Padme’s romance a forbidden one, for example. Better to cut this kind of stuff out to avoid the problems they bring.

But that’s getting a little off-track, since this is the OT edits to fit the PT and ST thread, not the PT and ST edits to fit the OT thread.

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