Idea: Knights of Ren Overhaul - Ideas for Fixing the KoR in TROS — Page 2

RogueLeader said:

Glad you like it krausfadr! And thanks for the positivity.

I think they could have depicted the fall of the temple in a way that was still sympathetic toward Ben, but didn’t involve a Force storm blowing up the temple.

Back when I thought the Knights of Ren were some of Luke’s students, I pictured a scenario where the commotion at Ben’s hut led to a scene around the debris, where the other students would gather around to see what happened. Ben would come out in a daze saying Luke tried to kill him. Many of the students wouldn’t believe him, and they would accuse him of killing Luke. Some of Ben’s friends would take his side, and this argument would culminate into a fight, where one student kills another. Suddenly, it would turn into an all out brawl, student fighting student. Before Ben even has a chance to recompose himself, he has his lightsaber drawn again, defending himself from attacks, and eventually being the one to strike back in rage and anger. After Luke is KO, it basically turns into Lord of the Flies with lightsabers, but things devolve in a matter of minutes rather than days, because everyone thinks Ben killed Luke. Ben catches the Temple on fire, and once everyone is dead except Ben and his surviving allies, they leave to go seek sanctuary with the only person Ben thinks won’t judge them: Snoke.

So when Luke wakes up, this is why he finds the bodies of many of his students strewn across the field (something the comic doesn’t account for), with his temple burning in the distance. As Luke collects the bodies, he probably notes that the bodies of Ben’s closest friends were unaccounted for, deducing that they likely joined him in the slaughter.

Couldn’t agree with this more. This is definitely what I imagined who Luke was originally recounting what happen to his students in TLJ.

idir_hh said:

His appearance likely changed a lot after his injuries.

JJ definitely didn’t care about that EU plot point when he turned Snoke into a Palpatine clone.

Question… Why weren’t the Knights in the Mustafar scene at the very beginning? It would of been a perfect way to introduce them.

Pasaana intial reveal and pan:
Palpatine echoing: My servants… (take any line of him saying “My servant” and then copy the initial “S” from servant and paste it at the end. I can make this if you have the isolated dialogue stems)
Then insert one of the cut lines from Palpatine to Kylo about getting Rey for him, like “Bring me the girl” or something. This can set up the idea that they are more loyal to Palpatine than to Ren.

Pasaana Chewie Scene (two KoR watch Chewie in the desert):
Knight A: A friend of Luke’s.
Knight B: I get his teeth.

I think this is great, but I think the other suggestion of adding a third line about his fur is too much.

Kijimi Alley Scene (the KoR pause in an alley just after Rey and the gang passed nearby):
Knight A: Luke’s scavenger girl. She’s close. Spread out.

“Start killing all the women.” Is too cartoonishly evil, and “Just like the temple” is a bit too hamfisted. I agree that there should be little bits to remind us of them being Luke’s students, but I don’t think those lines work here.

Exegol Ben Fight Scene (the KoR confront a weaponless Ben):

As they initially circle him:
Knight A: Well, well, well. (OR) Look who’s here.
Knight B: Still chasing that girl?
Knight C: And to think we once called you “Master”. (OR) Palpatine was right. You’re weak.

After “She will take her revenge”:
Knight A: What a disappointment.

When they see Ben’s saber:
Knight A: (mutters breathily) That’s not fair

I’m gonna mock these up to see if they fit in the actual scenes, then I’ll put a link here.

Giving the KoR lightsabers is a must in my book. They should be crackly like Kylo’s, but without the crossguard, as it symbolizes him being their leader. Maybe on Exegol one of the others could have crossguard to signify he’s been replaced? Probably not, just a thought.

If he weren’t so old, I’d say to make Lor San Tekka the one surviving Jedi student who didn’t turn. It would add a layer to Kylo killing him. But like I said, he’s much too old.

I think the KoR need a presence in TFA and TLJ. It might be possible to repurpose the shot of them walking with Kylo aboard a Star Destroyer in TFA or the start of TLJ, but one would have to remove the cracks (EbSynth could handle that). That closeup of the mask definitely has to go if we do that. The KoR aren’t in the following scene (the meeting), and we already have an establishing shot of the ships, so removing it should be seamless.

As for where to put it, I think a good spot would be just before Kylo meets with Hux at the start of TLJ. Like in TRoS, they wouldn’t be present for the meeting itself. Maybe one could composite one them into the shot after the helmet smashing right before “Prepare my ship”. However, the shot after has the camera rotating, so they couldn’t feasibly be in that one.

One could insert them into that one wide shot of Kylo on Mustafar, surrounded by his fallen enemies. It’s the only shot they’d need to be in continuity-wise I think.

The idea of giving them dialog, while it might make them a tad less intimidating, would be brilliant way of giving them character. We could explicitly establish them as Luke’s former students that way.

Here’s a quick voice test. I tried to make the vocal effects match the grunts they make at the very end, I got close-ish.

https://vimeo.com/421382173
Password: fanedit

Not sure which lines work, but I really like how “I get his teeth” turned out. I’ll record suggestions to see what fits best, and if anyone wants to try recording themselves, I’ll put the raw recording through the effects I set up.

Glad you liked it! Yeah, let’s try to pin down what phrases we want them to say, then if we could get a few different people’s voices, there could be more diversity without having to create six different effects.

I like the idea of changing that line to “Kylo’s scavenger girl” or “Kylo’s pet scavenger”, I don’t think they’d call him Ren since they’re all Knights of Ren, but I’m not honestly clear on how their names work. But yes, definitely need a force-sensitive line here too.

What do you think about changing the way they recognize Chewie? I’m thinking if they were Luke’s students, they would have known Ben as a kid, and they would have met Cheque through that lens. Maybe instead of “A friend of Luke’s” he’d be “Solo’s Wookiee”? Maybe even “Solo’s Wookiee… from Luke’s Academy”.

Lastly, I really don’t know what lines to use on Exegol. What needs to be conveyed more than anything? That they were with the Emperor all along? That they think he’s a traitor? We need four good lines, and then a consensus on if the “That’s not fair” line is a poor fit.

…should I put that effect on a Wilhelm scream and give it to one as they’re killed by Ben?

Okay, so here are their names: https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/4c75657a-ed2f-4974-9c4b-0f93fcd5bd90

According to that list, the lines (as I currently have them) go like this:

Pasaana Chewie Scene (two KoR watch Chewie in the desert):
Ap’lek: A friend of Luke’s.
Kuruk: I get his teeth.

(It’s quite clear which Knight is speaking due to the body language)

Kijimi Alley Scene (the KoR pause in an alley just after Rey and the gang passed nearby):
Ushar: Luke’s scavenger girl. She’s close. Spread out.

(Ushar is the one in the middle, and assumedly is giving directions to the rest)

Exegol Ben Fight Scene (the KoR confront a weaponless Ben):

As they initially circle him:
Ushar: Well, look who finally made it.
Trudgen: Still chasing the girl, Ben?
Kuruk: Palpatine was right. You’re weak.

(Ushar is in front of the first shot, Trudgen is closest to the front and center in the second, and Kuruk is centered in the third)

After “She will take her revenge”:
Vicrul: What a disappointment.

(Vicrul is in the beginning of the shot and pans slightly behind Ben. Trudgen is also in the shot, but it doesn’t feel like he’s the one speaking)

When they see Ben’s saber:
Cardo: (mutters breathily) Oh, that’s not fair.

(Cardo is in the foreground and has the biggest physical reaction to the saber reveal)

This gives each Knight at least one line. So we would need six voices in total. To show a quick reference:

Scene 1:

• Ap’lek
• Kuruk

Scene 2:

• Ushar

Scene 3:

• Ushar
• Trudgen
• Kuruk

Scene 4:

• Vicrul

Scene 5:

• Cardo

I feel like this has a lot of potential but so far the only exchange that really adds something is their reveal on Exegol. Subsequent shots could build off of it with more meaningful lines. I’d replace the line about being unfair with some expression of surprise. “What a disappointment” is in a shot so short it might as well be dropped rather than replaced. I really like the initial exchange though. It really clarifies what they’re thinking at this moment.

As for the other scenes, the dialog doesn’t add anything to their characters. It just states what we already know. Also, I’d shorten “Luke’s scavenger girl” to just “the scavenger”.

Oh and I’ve found their canon names.

FWIW, Duel of the Fates names some of them as Hattaska Ren, Ott Ren, Lorl Ren, and Jaedec Ren. That last one described as being the rogue, a title usually given to Vicrul, or as I call him Mangoface - I think the name Jaedec suits him really well.

Supposedly there was at one point a knight named Sollony Ren, but she wasn’t in the leaked script. I suspect she was renamed to be less similar to Solana, Rey’s last name revealed at the end.

Oh and I’ve always thought it’d be neat to have one named Ignatia Ren, but that’s just a name I made up.

The only other scene we could really add dialogue to is this: https://youtu.be/NGx3SjbO68o

I feel like any dialogue would just interrupt the scene, so unless you disagree, we should start coming up with more line ideas for the scenes I’ve done. I can do tests of each decent idea, and then when we have a final list, I can wrangle 5 other people to record lines and then finalize the audio. Does that sound good to you?

Pasaana:

• “Solo’s Wookiee.” / “I get his teeth.”
• “Luke’s pet monster.” / (Let’s be real, the teeth line is perfect and doesn’t need other options)
• “Little Ben’s pet monster.”

Kijimi:

• “Kylo’s pet scavenger. I can sense her. Spread out.”
• “The girl. I feel her presence. Find her.”
• “I sense the scavenger. Find her before she disappears again.”
• “Palpatine wants the girl alive. Kill the rest.” (Assuming this is after the Palpatine reveal)

Exegol Entrance (in any order):

• “Well look who finally made it.”
• “Still chasing the girl, Ben?”
• “Palpatine was right. You’re weak.”
• “I hope you’re ready to join your father.”
• “You turn on us now? So close to victory?”
• “Traitorous scum. To think we followed you.”
• “How the Master of the Knights of Ren has fallen.”

Exegol Pause:

• “What a disappointment.”
• “Give it up, Ben.”
• “You’re a disgrace.”
• “You’ll see your father soon.”

Exegol Saber Reaction:

• “Oh that’s not fair.”
• “What?!”
• “How?!”
• “Is that Luke’s saber?!”

idir_hh said:

I think that in general their dialogue has to somehow foreshadow their betrayal at the end.

I was thinking the same thing, but from their POV, Kylo betrays them by switching sides. So maybe they should just sound agitated with him and his search for Rey.

Unless you’re referring to the singer of DJ Got Us Fallin’ in Love Again, it should be Ushar, not Usher.