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Icons Unearthed - new 6 part documentary on the OT (VICE)

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Saw a commercial last night for a new docu-series that will be airing on VICE next month called Icons Unearthed. Hadn’t heard anything about it but they’re getting buzz for having Marcia Lucas as a part of it.

https://deadline.com/2022/06/vice-tvs-icons-unearthed-star-wars-series-debuts-with-first-ever-on-camera-interview-with-george-lucas-ex-wife-marcia-1235038275/

Would love to cap this. I prefer to hear from people that aren’t always interviewed.

Icons Unearthed: Star Wars includes exclusive interviews with Anthony Daniels (C-3PO), Billy Dee Williams (Lando Calrissian), Paul Hirsch, Phil Tippett, Rick Baker, Ken Ralston, John Dykstra, Howard Kazanjian, Julian Glover, Ian McDiarmid (Emperor Palpatine), Gus Lopez, Tom Spina and many more. Icons Unearthed: Star Wars is narrated by Michael Pennington, who portrayed Moff Tiaan Jerjerrod in Star Wars: Return of the Jedi.

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I’m looking forward to seeing this. I hope it is a full in-depth interview with Marcia Lucas and some of the others listed. And that the topics and conversation won’t be too safeguarded, or have to adhere to official Lucasfilm lines.

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I really like that Marcia has been coming out of the woods in the recent years. I wish she never left, she knew exactly what SW was… It’s cool to hear from a person who I had not heard talk or even seen anywhere other than possibly in old BTS clips until like 5 years ago.

And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as the Son of the Suns.

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LexX said:

I really like that Marcia has been coming out of the woods in the recent years. I wish she never left, she knew exactly what SW was… It’s cool to hear from a person who I had not heard talk or even seen anywhere other than possibly in old BTS clips until like 5 years ago.

Agreed. Is there anyone else who has refused to talk about it? I wonder who else on that credit list has never been interviewed. Everyone’s got a story.

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adywan said:

Watched this earlier. Some interesting things in this first part. Marcia looks like she is going to address being “erased” from SW history by George in a later episode. A few factual inaccuracies though. Looking forward to part 2.

Agreed. I definitely enjoyed it. What were some of the inaccuracies?

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digitalfreaknyc said:

adywan said:

Watched this earlier. Some interesting things in this first part. Marcia looks like she is going to address being “erased” from SW history by George in a later episode. A few factual inaccuracies though. Looking forward to part 2.

Agreed. I definitely enjoyed it. What were some of the inaccuracies?

I’d have to go back and watch it again and note down them, but a couple i remember is that they said that George was refused the rights to Flash Gordon because Dino De Laurentiis beat him to it, which we know is completely false. The other one was that they were talking about shooting at Elstree studios but all the footage they were showing was of the Yavin Hangar scenes , which were shot at Shepperton Studios. In fact they never even mentioned Shepperton , just claiming it was all shot at Elstree.

After seeing the second episode, they have basically cut Gary Kurtz. The only brief times they mention him it’s negative. NO mention of the fact that he took over the second unit to direct many scenes in order to get the film finished on time before the studio pulled the plug. They just portray him as this “looming” figure who couldn’t control anything. Yet people who actually worked on the film have said the opposite and have been quite unhappy with the way he was portrayed in the first episode. God knows how they will feel after this second one.

We do now know about the different cuts of the film . It is said in this doc that the Biggs/ Luke scenes were cut very early on and BEFORE the rough screening George did for his friends ( De Palma, Spielberg etc) AND long BEFRORE ANY PUBLIC SCREENING. It seems that , for the one and only public screening prior to release, the only difference was the opening crawl. So all those people that have been claiming they saw a cut in the cinema that contained these scenes, are either flat out lying or completely misremembering.

It’s been interesting hearing just how much influence Marcia had on this film, finally. The fact that George let De Palmas comments about the force get to him and George started re-cutting the film to eliminate much of the force , with marcia going behind his back and adding them all back in. George worshippers won’t be happy with this doc though.

A good thing about this is that they are showing footage of the original cut of the film and not special edition. I could be mistaken, but I’m pretty sure they are using Despecialised for the footage in this doc.

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Wait…how did you see the 2nd episode already?

Have there been any public comments about Kurtz after the first episode?

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adywan said:

It’s been interesting hearing just how much influence Marcia had on this film, finally. The fact that George let De Palmas comments about the force get to him and George started re-cutting the film to eliminate much of the force , with marcia going behind his back and adding them all back in. George worshippers won’t be happy with this doc though.

I think this takes the cake for the most ridiculous, laughable, and unbelievably stupid anti-Lucas conspiracy theory I’ve ever heard in my life

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adywan said:

After seeing the second episode, they have basically cut Gary Kurtz. The only brief times they mention him it’s negative. NO mention of the fact that he took over the second unit to direct many scenes in order to get the film finished on time before the studio pulled the plug. They just portray him as this “looming” figure who couldn’t control anything. Yet people who actually worked on the film have said the opposite and have been quite unhappy with the way he was portrayed in the first episode. God knows how they will feel after this second one.

Well that sucks.

We do now know about the different cuts of the film . It is said in this doc that the Biggs/ Luke scenes were cut very early on and BEFORE the rough screening George did for his friends ( De Palma, Spielberg etc) AND long BEFRORE ANY PUBLIC SCREENING. It seems that , for the one and only public screening prior to release, the only difference was the opening crawl. So all those people that have been claiming they saw a cut in the cinema that contained these scenes, are either flat out lying or completely misremembering.

Like, I fully expected some lying and exaggeration in Dark Side of the Ring. The wrestlers interviewed were all some variety of carny, guys who try to tell exciting and questionable stories for a living. Many are also pretty brain-damaged from concussions, so it makes sense they’d misremember.

I guess there’s not much of a difference between network-produced documentaries and carnie entertainment.

It’s been interesting hearing just how much influence Marcia had on this film, finally. The fact that George let De Palmas comments about the force get to him and George started re-cutting the film to eliminate much of the force , with marcia going behind his back and adding them all back in. George worshippers won’t be happy with this doc though.

Part of me thinks this was a condition that Marcia had for agreeing to do the documentary. It had to paint her in as favorable a light as possible for it to work.

This isn’t entirely uncommon in documentary filmmaking. Look at Vice’s own “Last of the Von Erichs” or FMW episode of Dark Side of the Ring if you want a thorough display of interviewee-influenced misinterpretation.

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BedeHistory731 said:

Part of me thinks this was a condition that Marcia had for agreeing to do the documentary. It had to paint her in as favorable a light as possible for it to work.

I mean…let’s be realistic: that’s a big reason why any of us are watching. Everyone else has been interviewed to death. She’s the newbie.

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G&G-Fan said:

adywan said:

It’s been interesting hearing just how much influence Marcia had on this film, finally. The fact that George let De Palmas comments about the force get to him and George started re-cutting the film to eliminate much of the force , with marcia going behind his back and adding them all back in. George worshippers won’t be happy with this doc though.

I think this takes the cake for the most ridiculous, laughable, and unbelievably stupid anti-Lucas conspiracy theory I’ve ever heard in my life

How is it an anti Lucas conspiracy theory when it comes direct from the mouth of Marcia Lucas. You know, the person who was married to him and actually worked on the film as an editor? God, Lucas worshippers really don’t like facts that go against him being some sort of infallible god, do they. 😉

I’m sorry that you don’t like the fact that i posted about a section that is in a documentary. I didn’t even post anything other than what is mentioned in this documentary, yet you felt it necessary to reply to what i wrote like that? Jeez

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BedeHistory731 said:

Part of me thinks this was a condition that Marcia had for agreeing to do the documentary. It had to paint her in as favorable a light as possible for it to work.

This isn’t entirely uncommon in documentary filmmaking. Look at Vice’s own “Last of the Von Erichs” or FMW episode of Dark Side of the Ring if you want a thorough display of interviewee-influenced misinterpretation.

Even though they claim this is the first interview Marcia has done for years, she did do on screen interviews for the ILM anniversary screening . Much of what she is saying in this doc only seems to back up “whispers” about what really went on with the production in star wars compared to the “Official George Version”. It’s more likely that she just finally wanted to be able to tell her story, warts and all, but we’ll see how they deal with them splitting up during ROTj. It does touch on the subject in the previews and how george “erased” her, which we know to be true

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adywan said:

Even though they claim this is the first interview Marcia has done for years, she did do on screen interviews for the ILM anniversary screening.

Yeah but who saw that? That wasn’t public and it wasn’t part of something mass-market…unless it aired or is able to be viewed somewhere publicly.

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adywan said:

How is it an anti Lucas conspiracy theory when it comes direct from the mouth of Marcia Lucas. You know, the person who was married to him and actually worked on the film as an editor? God, Lucas worshippers really don’t like facts that go against him being some sort of infallible god, do they. 😉

I’m sorry that you don’t like the fact that i posted about a section that is in a documentary. I didn’t even post anything other than what is mentioned in this documentary, yet you felt it necessary to reply to what i wrote like that? Jeez

Because you know it’s impossible for people to lie. Or for documentaries to be faulty. As shown with one of the most beautiful, informative, and factual documentaries of all time, Ancient Aliens.

You do realize Paul Hersch literally wrote a book basically saying crediting himself for every important editing choice even contradicting a ton of other people’s accounts (even taking credit for things that were supposedly Marcia)? But nooooooooooooooooooo, Hersch said it, so it’s fact. It’s almost like it makes sense that someone who was involved with an incredibly popular movie would want to claim that many iconic things came from them even if it’s not true. They want the credit for themselves. It’s almost like it also makes sense for someone to be bitter towards their ex who chose movies over them.

You say it out loud and it sounds ridiculous. It doesn’t make any sense. First of all Lucas was very passionate about the force as a concept. DePalma just criticized anything that wasn’t realistic (also having said “Where’s the blood when they shoot people?”) so of course George didn’t listen to him. Otherwise why wasn’t he scrambling to add blood to all the shooting scenes? And second, how tf could she add things back he deleted behind his back without him knowing? Like what, when Lucas saw it in theaters was he like “OMG who added the references to the force back?! What happened?! Oh no how did my movie end up this way?!”. How would that even be possible? He would’ve watched it several times before it released, and he would make sure everything was according to how he wanted it. He was an editor for the film himself. He supervised the editing for the film every step of the way. You can’t say, “If George wanted Greedo to shoot first he would’ve done it then” only to say “George accidentally let his wife keep something in the movie that he wanted out and it somehow got into theaters and that’s how we got the force”. That makes no sense whatsoever. If George didn’t want it in the movie it wouldn’t have ended up in theaters.

It makes no sense if you think about it for three seconds, but sure, credit Marcia Lucas for the force instead of George.

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G&G-Fan said:

adywan said:

How is it an anti Lucas conspiracy theory when it comes direct from the mouth of Marcia Lucas. You know, the person who was married to him and actually worked on the film as an editor? God, Lucas worshippers really don’t like facts that go against him being some sort of infallible god, do they. 😉

I’m sorry that you don’t like the fact that i posted about a section that is in a documentary. I didn’t even post anything other than what is mentioned in this documentary, yet you felt it necessary to reply to what i wrote like that? Jeez

Because you know it’s impossible for people to lie. Or for documentaries to be faulty. As shown with one of the most beautiful, informative, and factual documentaries of all time, Ancient Aliens.

You do realize Paul Hersch literally wrote a book basically saying crediting himself for every important editing choice even contradicting a ton of other people’s accounts (even taking credit for things that were supposedly Marcia)? But nooooooooooooooooooo, Hersch said it, so it’s fact. It’s almost like it makes sense that someone who was involved with an incredibly popular movie would want to claim that many iconic things came from them even if it’s not true. They want the credit for themselves. It’s almost like it also makes sense for someone to be bitter towards their ex who chose movies over them.

You say it out loud and it sounds ridiculous. It doesn’t make any sense. First of all Lucas was very passionate about the force as a concept. DePalma just criticized anything that wasn’t realistic (also having said “Where’s the blood when they shoot people?”) so of course George didn’t listen to him. Otherwise why wasn’t he scrambling to add blood to all the shooting scenes? And second, how tf could she add things back he deleted behind his back without him knowing? Like what, when Lucas saw it in theaters was he like “OMG who added the references to the force back?! What happened?! Oh no how did my movie end up this way?!”. How would that even be possible? He would’ve watched it several times before it released, and he would make sure everything was according to how he wanted it. He was an editor for the film himself. He supervised the editing for the film every step of the way. You can’t say, “If George wanted Greedo to shoot first he would’ve done it then” only to say “George accidentally let his wife keep something in the movie that he wanted out and it somehow got into theaters and that’s how we got the force”. That makes no sense whatsoever. If George didn’t want it in the movie it wouldn’t have ended up in theaters.

It makes no sense if you think about it for three seconds, but sure, credit Marcia Lucas for the force instead of George.

FFS, nowhere did i say that Marcia put the footage back in and George didn’t notice and not once did i credit marcia with the force. I just watched the doc again and it’s not actually Marcia that says george Started taking some mentions of the force out of the movie, most notably when Han tells Luke " May the force be with you" in the Yavin hangar, it’s Howard Kazanjian. Marcia says that when she saw the next screening , she noticed he had cut the force out in a couple of places, and then its said by Howard that she added these cuts back in. George got cold feet and worried after what his friend, who he respected, had told him after the screening. He had a wobble, nothing more. It’s not some great conspiracy theory against George. He respected Marcia’s opinion on things. He listened. They were a great team.

And using "Ancient Aliens " as an example of inaccurate docs? Really?

I didn’t bother with Paul’s book because of the amount of inaccuracies in it. Things that were widely know through various multiple sources and not just from one man.

You know full well George has changed his story throughout the years on the making of these films that contradict what actual proof we have an also from multiple accounts from the people who worked on the films, but you seem to only want to believe things that come out of George’s mouth and consider anyone’s accounts that don’t tow the "George " line as nothing more than people wanting to take credit for George’s work and from bitter people.

I’m done with this argument. I don’t see why you felt the need to be so rude toward what i said when i was just repeating what was relayed in this documentary episode. But you kind of proved my original jokey point when i said that Lucas Worshipers wouldn’t be happy with this doc. I only talk about one small section of the second episode and you blow up toward me for no reason.

digitalfreaknyc said:

adywan said:

Even though they claim this is the first interview Marcia has done for years, she did do on screen interviews for the ILM anniversary screening.

Yeah but who saw that? That wasn’t public and it wasn’t part of something mass-market…unless it aired or is able to be viewed somewhere publicly.

There were many interviews done for this event and they were all posted online right after the event took place. A few sites picked up on the interviews after they were released

https://vimeo.com/224132896

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adywan said:

There were many interviews done for this event and they were all posted online right after the event took place. A few sites picked up on the interviews after they were released

https://vimeo.com/224132896

Absolutely. I remember those. But they weren’t a part of a big documentary series or something that the general public was aware of. Now, that’s also not to say that the general public is aware of this doc either but…I digress. 😃

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adywan said:

FFS, nowhere did i say that Marcia put the footage back in and George didn’t notice and not once did i credit marcia with the force. I just watched the doc again and it’s not actually Marcia that says george Started taking some mentions of the force out of the movie, most notably when Han tells Luke " May the force be with you" in the Yavin hangar, it’s Howard Kazanjian. Marcia says that when she saw the next screening , she noticed he had cut the force out in a couple of places, and then its said by Howard that she added these cuts back in. George got cold feet and worried after what his friend, who he respected, had told him after the screening. He had a wobble, nothing more. It’s not some great conspiracy theory against George. He respected Marcia’s opinion on things. He listened. They were a great team.

And using "Ancient Aliens " as an example of inaccurate docs? Really?

I didn’t bother with Paul’s book because of the amount of inaccuracies in it. Things that were widely know through various multiple sources and not just from one man.

You know full well George has changed his story throughout the years on the making of these films that contradict what actual proof we have an also from multiple accounts from the people who worked on the films, but you seem to only want to believe things that come out of George’s mouth and consider anyone’s accounts that don’t tow the "George " line as nothing more than people wanting to take credit for George’s work and from bitter people.

I’m done with this argument. I don’t see why you felt the need to be so rude toward what i said when i was just repeating what was relayed in this documentary episode. But you kind of proved my original jokey point when i said that Lucas Worshipers wouldn’t be happy with this doc. I only talk about one small section of the second episode and you blow up toward me for no reason.

Ooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ok, that makes a lot more sense. I apologize, truly. The way you worded it saying she added it “behind Lucas’ back” made me think that was the implication. But it was wrong of me to jump on you like that.

I don’t think George Lucas is perfect. The prequels have their flaws and I do understand that it wasn’t all him that made the original trilogy. Richard, Marcia and Paul contributed a great deal (even if Paul hyped himself up to a ridiculous degree). But I also think people shouldn’t attack George by saying things that imply that A New Hope or the original trilogy in general being good had nothing to do with him, that Star Wars was garbage until it was edited by his wife. Whether you like the prequels or not, he was an integral part to the original trilogy.

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G&G-Fan said:

adywan said:

FFS, nowhere did i say that Marcia put the footage back in and George didn’t notice and not once did i credit marcia with the force. I just watched the doc again and it’s not actually Marcia that says george Started taking some mentions of the force out of the movie, most notably when Han tells Luke " May the force be with you" in the Yavin hangar, it’s Howard Kazanjian. Marcia says that when she saw the next screening , she noticed he had cut the force out in a couple of places, and then its said by Howard that she added these cuts back in. George got cold feet and worried after what his friend, who he respected, had told him after the screening. He had a wobble, nothing more. It’s not some great conspiracy theory against George. He respected Marcia’s opinion on things. He listened. They were a great team.

And using "Ancient Aliens " as an example of inaccurate docs? Really?

I didn’t bother with Paul’s book because of the amount of inaccuracies in it. Things that were widely know through various multiple sources and not just from one man.

You know full well George has changed his story throughout the years on the making of these films that contradict what actual proof we have an also from multiple accounts from the people who worked on the films, but you seem to only want to believe things that come out of George’s mouth and consider anyone’s accounts that don’t tow the "George " line as nothing more than people wanting to take credit for George’s work and from bitter people.

I’m done with this argument. I don’t see why you felt the need to be so rude toward what i said when i was just repeating what was relayed in this documentary episode. But you kind of proved my original jokey point when i said that Lucas Worshipers wouldn’t be happy with this doc. I only talk about one small section of the second episode and you blow up toward me for no reason.

Ooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ok, that makes a lot more sense. I apologize, truly. The way you worded it saying she added it “behind Lucas’ back” made me think that was the implication. But it was wrong of me to jump on you like that.

I don’t think George Lucas is perfect. The prequels have their flaws and I do understand that it wasn’t all him that made the original trilogy. Richard, Marcia and Paul contributed a great deal (even if Paul hyped himself up to a ridiculous degree). But I also think people shouldn’t attack George by saying things that imply that A New Hope or the original trilogy in general being good had nothing to do with him, that Star Wars was garbage until it was edited by his wife. Whether you like the prequels or not, he was an integral part to the original trilogy.

Hey, no worries. It’s difficult at times to gauge what someone is actually meaning through a post in a forum. I’m not great at portraying what i want to say in forum posts. I hear in my head what i want to write and it doesn’t always come across how i intend it to , which is why i shy away from posting lot of time time lately. So, as Vader said, “Apology accepted…” 😉 I need to apologise too for being a bit snappy toward you. I’m working on my edit at the moment, stuck in a room in front of the PC while its bloody baking here in the UK at the moment, and no air conditioning, so i got a little short tempered, Again, sorry.

I’m not one of those in the camp that think that everyone else was the reason why the OT was so great. Everyone played their part in it’s long lasting success. It was a team effort.

Funny you say about ANH sucking before Marcia/ Paul and Richard got their hands on it in the editing suite because, by all accounts, it did. But that was down to the original editor not understanding what Star Wars was about and him ignoring George and editing it into a more of a comedy , which is touched on in this doc. Using takes that swayed more towards the comedic than any sort of real emotion. It was thanks to seeing Jympson’s edits that got the Fox execs nervous and wanting to shut production down and pile all the pressure on George.

Sadly, over the years, the marketing machine has distorted so much of the truths behind these films productions. Older interviews were so much better before all the " it was planned out all along/ it was always the story of Darth Vader" spiel. It seems so many have had their roles downgraded or even erased by the marketing machine and sadly George became what he fought against so hard when he was younger. He became the Empire and you can sadly see how, in later years, it changed him.

But Star Wars WAS saved in the edit. All films are made or broken by the edit. If the studio had forced George to go with Jympson’s edit, it’s highly doubtful we would be here today talking about Star Wars so passionately. But to see articles and videos claiming that Star Wars was saved in the edit because of George lack of involvement, is just ridiculous.

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adywan said:
I didn’t bother with Paul’s book because of the amount of inaccuracies in it. Things that were widely know through various multiple sources and not just from one man.

What were some of these inaccuracies? Just curious