I will refuse to buy STAR WARS on bluray! — Page 2

captainsolo said:

DTS can be beneficial for some films due to the higher bitrate, but I usually prefer to watch films in their original release format. If it was a Dolby release then I stick with that track unless the other is a preferred option by the people involved etc.

The difference can be heard on some films: Tomorrow Never Dies was impressive in its Dolby mix. (like it was in the theater-okay movie, great sound mix) I switched over to the DTS just out of curiosity and was blown away.

Then again, I'm talking about standard and not HD or lossless.

The only way I can see DTS for Star Wars is using the 1997 DTS mix for the Special Edition and a brand new DTS 70mm mix (like the one created for the Vertigo restoration).

I saw that at in dts at screen 6 UCI Tower Park around December 1997 with a friend. He sat middle of the cinema while front and centre row for the wildest LCR stereo front imagining the further you move back the less and less the stereo width becomes.  

I found the film mix interesting with softer sounds like the shower scene after the helicopter took a plunge into street in ball of flames! Bond passing the soap, just don’t bend over Bond! LOL The sound of the bar of soap I think being picked up from stage left had me looking in that direction while water was covering them.

I’d have to re-listen to that scene again on DVD Dolby digital. My friend has my optical cable for the laserdisc player so I can’t play the dts laserdisc when I was less cynical about dts as whole.

SilverWook said:

Since many early Blu Ray titles have nice uncompressed PCM tracks, all these dueling audio codecs seem unnecessary.  But they had to find a way to make my less than five year old receiver obsolete didn't they? ;)

I can hear the difference between Dolby Digital and DTS on DVD, but hearing any subtle differences on Blu hasn't happened for me yet.

Do you happen to have Star Trek Generations or Saving Private Ryan on special edition DVD?

I did a listening test of each channel one at time and noticed what seamed like some sly re-mixing in level of some frequencies. I got feed up with dts on both and used Dolby

Or has Han would say about dts LOL

“It’s all a lot of simple tricks nonsense.”

I’m still running an old AVR that supports Dolby digital /Pro-logic II and dts.

Even Pro-Logic II adds a bit more crosstalk on the surrounds while doing sod all difference to the LCR, fake stereo surrounds from monaural matrix okay not bad attempt I was hoping for something really impressive at the time of reading about Pro-Logic II wow took me only day to suss it out, I don’t even use Pro-Logic II on Dolby stereo matrix 4.2.4 down-mixing or if film comes with Dolby 4.2.4 I have to manually select Dolby Pro-Logic as the AVR always selects Pro-Logic II sigh.

Re-listening to region 2 special edition Saving Private Ryan (chapter 2, time 6m:06s where the boats near the beach on the surrounds (I’m monitoring only the surrounds) the whistle blowing left surround is some 4dbA to 5dbA less on dts with the SPL meter over Dolby digital. 

DOLBY wins! 

Also the framing on the bluray is cock-eyed out of place over the DVD edition sigh, why pay for less image on format that I thought was going to make a difference. 

The more things change. The more they stay the same. 

I’ve switched back to Dolby digital now. I heard this in DOLBY SR-D when it came out and the impact of LCR stage channels was might high in level but still lacked what you’d get in top dog THX cinema!

My x6 surrounds have lot of reverberation on the beach front assault I’m only listening to the surrounds at the moment. Some parts there is might pause in the sound while Cpt. Miller has lapse or goes blank faced with the onslaught of madness surrounding him.

Then all goes active again when snapping out of it “What do we do” as young solder yells out! Bullets wiz though the air and ricocheting off metal crosses stuck in the sand. Machinegun fire moves around left to right, shells hit the sand sending showers of sand all around my ears.

I’m surrounded with x6 surrounds on the sidewalls with x4 on the back wall and x2 placed overhead. I’m only running the normal surround layout at the moment and its immersive without the use of dipolar surrounds. The surrounds are spaced apart along the walls to create a naturally defused surround field just like the cinema, only in Length 15 by Width 10 by Height 8 foot room.

The surrounds can reach a comfortable 85dbc level as they are so near around the seating location at just under 7 feet and aimed downwards each have there on EQ all surrounds are wired in parallel.

Listen out for the sound effect in “Forest Gump” (1994) as Gump run out the hot zone for cover, one of the mortars impacting into the rice field is the same effect when Luke cuts a hole in the At-At walker to toss a bomb inside!

If you used a frequency spectrumlab to analyze the original STAR WARS over the DVD 2004 edition the graphs will not line up or mirror the soundtrack, that’s a fact!

Its best to keep the soundtrack traditional to the time when it was mixed for cinemas and some people are suckers or original not re-mixed to the point of driving us all blue in the face.

xhonzi said:

 

captainsolo:

Star Wars has always been Dolby-it has never been DTS (except for rare screenings of the 97 SE). There's no reason to change it now.

There's DTS and then there's DTS, same as there's Dolby, and then there's Dolby.

What I mean is, there isn't a strong analogue between DTS vs Dolby in theatres and DTS vs Dolby at home.  If something was Dolby in theatres, and Dolby Digital HD at home, that doesn't mean it's a more pristine transfer than if it was Dolby in theatres and DTS-HD at home.

doubleofive said:

I'm not a fan of this DTS thing, mostly because my receiver won't read it. But my cheap Walmart receiver can play any kind of Dolby. It's sad, if I want to watch Star Trek TOS, the new mix I have to switch to my Aux Stereo In (my BR player can output DTS in analog stereo), but if I want to listen to the original mono, I get it lossless straight through my coax input.

Of course, it could be that I just need to buy a new receiver...

Every DVD player and receiver sold in the last 10 years should support ALL DVD BASED Dolby and DTS codecs.  On Blu-Ray, however, you also get DolbyHD and DTS-HD codecs thrown into the mix.  Most if not all players can stream the data to the receiver, but it's been a mixed bag on what receivers can decode what codecs.

005, is your receiver old enough that it doesn't even support DVD based DTS?  And it seems that DTS on DVD died a silent death sometime before HDDVD came out.  I think the LotR EE discs were some of the last I bought that had DTS on them.

Case in point: Pirates otC 1 is in DTS 6.1 as well as DD5.1.  PotC 2 & 3 are just in DD5.1.

I do prefer DTS for DVDs, not because it's louder, but I do feel that the Signal to Noise Ratio is better.  But because it's usually designed with a nice home theatre set-up in mind.  The DD5.1 tracks have to be able to downmix cleanly to 2.0 stereo because sadly that is still how 90% of DVDs are listened to.  The DTS tracks usually don't compromise due to the fact that they aren't the "primary" track on the disc.  Also, it supports a discreet 6.1 track, unlike Dolby Digital on DVD.

I don't have a new-enough receiver to process either of the "HD" codecs, so I can't comment on them.  However, if they both sound as good or better than DTS6.1 generally does, I'm sure I can't be bothered to tell the difference between them.  My ears aren't that good. 

Read you post and it brings up a thing of the past where I had Millennium dts 2, 4, 6 decoder processor where it wouldn’t get a dts lock on the he DVD player that I was using?

I took it back to the shop where we being a testing of some 5 or so DVD players in random quick testing to get the dts lock light to display. Only one player worked out of some expensive DVD players around 2000 late or was it early 2001 when Gladiator came out? I brought the decoder around 1998.

Today it sits idle discounted as I use an AVR Kenwood KRF-X9050D THX select, yes its some 10 years old and still working.

I’ve had bad cases with Dolby digital where Pearl Harbor wouldn’t give a decent Dolby digital lock. It was random noise sounding like machinegun fire with the soundtrack underneath a heap of raw digital noise!

Same issue happened with special edition The Untouchables not bad some 1000 films on DVD and only two failed on my AVR.

Its to do with Motorola chip where some Dolby digital coding will get messed up! I took the DVD back and later bright a first edition of The Untouchables region 2 DVD, no issues what so ever perfect!

I later brought Pearl Harbor on bluray and I was fearing the same issue but knew this was different format and it would near impossible to happen again. Perfect sound playback in Dolby digital the slam kick and depth would wake the dead!

I did have to resort to analogue Dolby stereo 4.2.4 for Pearl Harbor on DVD once again last year as I borrowed it for one night only from a friend for waterfall frequency testing.

These stupid AVR we have don’t switch automatically when the digital track fails unlike professional Dolby digital decoders, not that it bothers me, leaning forwards to switch manually gets your ass off the seat for something called exercise! LOL

As for hearing try and take care of it and your sight as well! I  heard on podcast that the difference is some added frequencies with Dolby TRUE-HD and dtsHDMA what the blazes is that suppose to mean?

If its some tiny difference that is marginal really! If there is huge difference in several db yes the ear is going to notice it but can’t tell how many db down it is. That’s where an RTA or SPL db comes in.

Nice home theatre/cinema “in mind” and what would be the specification for the overpriced, “in mind” be? I’m sure most of us have a few spare grand hiding underneath a bed. LOL

Apollo 13 on dts THX laserdisc sounds like the dogs bollocks over the DVD and its within the same frequency response by one cycle difference due to PAL 4% speed-up the NTSC will have one cycle lower lows and less bright highs and Tom sounds like an old guy rather than something out of Big with a 4% PAL grip around his bollocks if, you get my meaning. LOL

Comparing the same DVD with other region 2 DVD there are some technical sound issues as one of the chapters the nightmare sequence where centre channel goes mute on the middle range to high and its all dull sounding, kinder like a 70mm mag print with loss off HF on a print of BATMAN that I heard many years later only lasted for brief time.

Well same thing for first edition region 2 Apollo 13 the issue lasted up the point the nightmare sequence ended.

Also there is some digital clipping on the surrounds only and only on the digital discrete track its not audible when down-mixed to Dolby stereo 4.2.4.

It’s the same issue on all digital versions NTSC and both region 2 DVD versions. It’s when the close p short of the engine bell blasts out lots and lots and lots of wallop for a couple of seconds. It’s a kind of crackle pop on the right surround only!

It sure stuck out amongst all the other channels that would normally mask it, but I backed-up a few seconds muted the LCR/LEF.1 and monitored the surrounds this was years ago some 10 or so years ago when I noticed it.

So don’t be fooled that bluray is new fresh this and that transfer bollocks is it! I haven’t bothered buying it because enough of the same film is enough! I have it on.

Signature Collection THX laserdisc

dts THX laserdisc

First edition region 2

Second edition region 2

Also the nightmare sequence sound issue is only isolated to the first edition R2 DVD so what wrong there I’d like to hear the excuse for that one.

I’ve also owned the first edition THX laserdisc that I later sold after I had brought the dts THX laserdisc.        

Like is  said in my facebook group which you hijacked (funnily enough most of the stuff you wrote here you just copied and pasted from there) it wouldn't matter one bit if they used DTS or DOLBY for the blu-ray releases because its probably going to be the special editions anyway and DTS was sued for their releases. Plus they won't even be the same mixes as the theatrical se versions anyway so whichever company they use for the audio doesn't really matter. As has been said, there isn't that much difference between DolbyHD & DTSHD-MA anyway due to less compression on the Dolby tracks compared to their DVD counterparts.

You accused me of being a DTS lover (which you still have in your first post which you copied and pasted from the ESB:R facebook group) because i defended the quality of some DTS tracks compared to Dolby digital on DVD. Nowhere did i say i'm a DTS lover. In fact i did say that sometimes dolby tracks have better mixes and other have better DTS mixes. I don't care what company is used as long as it is a good mix. most DTS DVD tracks i have listened to have a better dynamic range and clarity over the Dolby mix but they would never be a fair comparison unless it is guaranteed that the same master audio was used for the releases. Many times the dolby & DTS tracks have slightly different mixes.

The dolby digital track on the SE laserdiscs wins hands down over the abomination of the dolby DVD mixes.

There is good and bad from both camps but you seem to think that we should blindly agree with you that Dolby is better. Sorry but that is just an opinion and i have my own. I guess you'll just accuse me of being a DTS lover again but i personally don't care.

What i would want from the Blu-Ray release is the original theatrical versions with their original theatrical mixes, although Empire may be a little tricky because a few shots were added to the 35mm version and maybe a new 5.1 mix and it wouldn't matter which house does the audio, whether it be Dolby or DTS, as long as it was the best possible representation of the audio. But like it has been said it really doesn't matter now with Blu-Ray.

Lucasfilm seems to have stuck with Dolby as they never released Star Wars with the SE DTS mix and even their Indy4 Blu-Ray had Dolby HD so why do you think that they are going to go with DTS? There have been no rumours about the audio mix changing to DTS so why get so wound up about it?

There would have to be a special features disc with good content like deleted scenes for each movie of the OT, not just one bonus disc for all three while the PT get a bonus disc each, and the theatrical versions restored for me to fork out the price for the set.

Adywan

Is that duplicated word for word? I’m sure I’ve used re-mix version here LOL.

Yes I did and gladly say it again. You struck me, as guy that didn’t give hoot if Fox uses dtsHDMA. Well I'm glad you using Dolby on your re-mix versions.

I would have invited you to rant on my facebook. So I act the mad man who is bitterly disappointed and if it was something that each of one of you liked you’d be entitled to rant. It’s better to get it out of the system and vent the issue, in clam civilized manor.

I know it’s going to happen Fox have made up their minds and nothing can change that.

Okay unless STAR WARS got an independent release not though Fox chances are Lucasfilm will honour the films in Dolby as that was how they where created from birth to the cinema.

But I know its going with dtsHDMA how much do you want bet?

How about…1pence no lets make it £1pound then so, that’s about roughly $2 dollars if I lose the bet of course.

So I have no idea under closer listening squinty. I have to settle with the Dolby stereo 4.2.4 which was playing at the Odeon as the cinema didn’t installed a Dolby DA20 decoder at the time.

I only heard Empire in Dolby stereo 4.2.4 Odeon screen 1, and once again in dts at UCI Tower Park, screen 6.

Jedi at the Odeon same screen same Dolby 4.2.4, as the films where released weeks apart if I recall.

I think Star Wars looked neat on  the Odeon screen but sound wise they lacked force that was felt in the subtle parts of the mix. Luke moving the lightsaber around in carbon freezing chamber peaked fairly high for brief moment.

The snow battle attack and, wait a moment! I recall now! The Odeon had some lousy EQ done to the fronts or ether had the HF horns left and right laying on the floor besides the LF cabs as all the pans was dull sounding they didn’t have smooth timber matching it was all high end in the centre and the Tauntaun sounded like it had 1 year old sock stuffed in its mouth as its moaning grunting sound pans from centre to left front.

Fox is bragging the Alien box set will have 60 hours of extras wow that’s less than 3 days viewings! I could find most of those extras on youtube before its released.

STAR WARS needs to compile all the laserdisc edition extras including those patchy audio commentaries sigh.

They should produce a total definitive blutay edition with 2 weeks of extras to melt are minds! LOL I mean the films are 30 years old well Jedi only 27 years old.

Should they also included "the STAR WARS holiday special" he he with GCI Ewoks added? Noooooooo!

My Cat's breathe smells like cat food.

Oh...and I like Star Wars, too, I guess. ;)

Star Wars (Episode I) was the first DVD I ever bought...will it be the same for Blu-Ray?

Davnes007 said:

My Cat's breath smells like cat food.

I bent my Wookiee!

Jonno said:

adywan said:

DTS was sued for their releases.

Probably by Jedi Temple34.

ha ha. that will teach me to write things when i'm knackered.

Jonno said:

adywan said:

DTS was sued for their releases.

Probably by Jedi Temple34.

Wow what day, what day, huh.

So what’s this about suing then? 

They need liquating!

Down at HMV this afternoon looking though the bluray titles nearly 90% are all dtsHMDA conspiracy you bet. sigh

TV's Frink said:

Liquating?  Are you trying to say liquidating?

 Yeah it’s the same thing bankruptcy I hope they go into liquidation. I sick of seeing the dtsHDMA logo on all my favourite Dolby stereo films.

TV's Frink said:

Jedi Temple34 said:

TV's Frink said:

Liquating?  Are you trying to say liquidating?

 

Yeah it’s the same thing bankruptcy I hope they go into liquation.

I beg to differ.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquation" target="_blank" title="en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquation">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquation

By the way, you're starting to sound like that guy who wanted to sue George Lucas.

You got the wrong guy buster!

I think it was a woman who wanted to sue him.

A couple of points...

• DTS-HD Master Audio Suite costs £1,000
• Dolby Media Producer costs £7,000
• DTS-HD Master Audio Suite is Mac / PC
• Dolby Media Producer is Mac Only
• All Professional Blu-ray Authoring Software is PC Only
• Both Dolby TruHD and DTS-HD MA as lossless codecs, which compact the data more efficiently like a zip file.
• Because they are lossless they are VBR encodes, like video and only peak when required.
• DTS-HD has legacy DTS 'core' which is automatically decoded if the end user doesn't support DTS-HD MA.
• Dolby TruHD is two files - a .mlp and an ac3 file.
• Although 2 separate files, they are married on the disc into 1 stream, which then works like DTS-HD allegedly.  I've never done it, and I remember The Dark Knight defaulting to the lossy dolby ac3 file.
• I believe there used to be issues with Dolby TruHD and ScenaristBD authoring.  These have all been fixed now, but of course in the early days when everyone is making purchasing / house style decisions, it was a factor.  Looking back through emails, I can't find the specifics at present.

I don't give a flying wookie what a disc has on it, but as far as I'm aware what was shown in a cinema bears no relation to what is put on a home entertainment disc.

Don't forget that most titles get a different 'home entertainment' mix because the speaker configuration, size and distance is different to a multiplex. 

And do you know what they do once the mix is completed? They save out files (Broadcast Wavs, ProTools Sessions) or they lay the audio off to a DA-98 TASCAM tape, or if they want to put it with video, perhaps an HDCAM SR.  And then when the authoring house receives it, they capture it via SDI / AES.

Dolby and DTS are delivery products.

But the word is the films all films have there dynamic range reduced an (ex Dolby constant) guy told me this only a few weeks ago.

£1grand to £7grand I think Dolby is digging a hole for them self’s.

Issues I’ve heard that dts on bluray has issues with something called “bit bomb”? where the sound goes and raw digital sound suddenly bursts out the loudspeakers to wake the dead! No thanks I don’t fancy coming over a dodgy dts bluray.

Maybe I've drunk too much coffee today but your entire post makes no sense.

What did this ex Dolby Constant say - does he know Desmond from Lost?

What's your point about the cost of the encoders?

I've never heard of a "Bit Bomb".

You do realise that Theatre Dolby is different technology to Dolby TruHD right?

I'm going to refuse to buy Star Wars on Blu-ray because it's AVC encoded rather than 35mm film.

Please send your thoughts to Lucasfilm - if you're quick they might read them out at Celebration V for a laugh.

Now, how does this clueless muppet filter work again...