I strongly dislike the American National Anthem — Page 3

xhonzi said:

Nanner Split said:

I nominate this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kf4eu5y0418

Fine, I nominate this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fvWgJz6ees

What, do you get royalties every time we click that link?

Still haven't listened, btw.

Nanner Split said:

Warbler said:

Nope, you just have to be anti-American, or a pacifist, or and extreme leftist. 

Buzzwords and labels. There's nothing wrong with being critical of leadership, especially shitty leadership.

hairy_hen's statement was more than a criticism of leadership.    I never said there was anything wrong with criticizing leadership.   

xhonzi said:

Warbler said:

I guarantee you that is not going to happen.  It's not my kind of music.

What kind of guarantee is this?

a 100% guarantee, a million dollar guarantee(in US currency).

xhonzi said:

Nanner Split said:

I nominate this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kf4eu5y0418

Fine, I nominate this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fvWgJz6ees

 

I like the Star Wars spoof, but I reject both nominations. 

Warbler said:

Nope, you just have to be anti-American, or a pacifist, or and extreme leftist. 

What's wrong with being a pacifist or an extreme leftist?  I'd go so far as to say what's wrong with being Anti-American, but then again, I don't have the same idea of "patriotism" as most.  Why should I have to be "pro-American" just because I was born here?

Nanner Split said:

ChainsawAsh, I think we're the same person.

So I take it I finally get the time machine to work?  How long does it take?

No, wait, don't answer.  I shouldn't know too much about my own future, yadda yadda, et cetera.

*sigh* where are the conservatives when I need them?    You have every right to be anti-American, a pacifist, and/or extreme leftist if you want.   But is not for me.    I think being extremely left is as bad as extremely right.   Neither side is right all the time.   I disagree with pacifism because I don't believe that every single problem can be solved without the use of violence.   As for being anti-American,   I just happen to like living here in freedom.   So I am pro-American.    I think a lot of people become anti-American for the wrong reasons.    They do it to get back at their pro-American parents that they do not like.    They do it as a means of rebelling,  teenagers like to rebel.   Comedians do it because America is an easy punch line.  Finally some become anti-American because its a cool thing to do. "look at me, I'm going against America! I'm not deceived like everyone else, I'm cool".   Lots people from other countries are anti-American as a way to make themselves and their country feel superior.  No, you don't have to be pro-American just because you were born here, but it would be nice of you to appreciate the fact that you have the freedom to be anti-American.   Not every country around world lets you be anti-that-country.   It would also be nice of you to respect the fact that alot of people have sacrificed their lives to give you that freedom.     One can be anti-war, anti-Iraq war, anti-war in Afghanistan, anti-Bush, or anti-Obama without being anti-American

btw, when I say I am pro-America, I don't mean that I am pro every leader this nation has had and has right now, or am pro every decision this nation made and every war we've fought.    I am pro-American, cause I am pro-freedom, pro-democracy, etc.  that sort thing.  

Warbler said:

...

btw, when I say I am pro-America, I don't mean that I am pro every leader this nation has had and has right now, or am pro every decision this nation made and every war we've fought.    I am pro-American, cause I am pro-freedom, pro-democracy, etc.  that sort thing.  

This is about how I feel.  I strongly disagree with a lot of government actions but I don't think this should negate my feelings of pride for the good that my country has done in the world.   I am more upset at the things my country hasn't done (like deposing corrupt African dictators who massacre their own people) than the wrongs (perceived or other wise) that have been done.

My opinion.

Warbler said:

I think being extremely left is as bad as extremely right.   Neither side is right all the time....

...I think a lot of people become anti-American for the wrong reasons.    They do it to get back at their pro-American parents that they do not like.    They do it as a means of rebelling,  teenagers like to rebel.   Comedians do it because America is an easy punch line.  Finally some become anti-American because its a cool thing to do. "look at me, I'm going against America! I'm not deceived like everyone else, I'm cool"....

...No, you don't have to be pro-American just because you were born here, but it would be nice of you to appreciate the fact that you have the freedom to be anti-American.   Not every country around world lets you be anti-that-country....

You raise some very valid points here.  I agree with most of this, especially the extreme-leftism often being just as bad as extreme-rightism.  (That one doesn't sound quite right, for some reason ... rightism?)

I also agree that many people who would describe themselves as "anti-America" are only doing it to rebel, or to seem "cool."

I would like to point out that I'm not "anti-America," per se.  Rather, I just really, really hate the path I see this country taking, and I also don't see any way to reverse it.  And it really bothers me that a lot of the self-described "conservatives" that I interact with on a daily basis have the attitude that anyone who is anti-America should be shot (not as big an exaggeration as you might think).

It also bugs me quite a bit that these same "conservatives" who said bashing the President was un-American back when GWB was in office are now saying that supporting Obama is un-American, simply because they disagree.

Anyway, this is all getting into a lot of issues that I don't particularly like to discuss, as it's inevitably a heated discussion with a lot of passion on all sides, and it's almost impossible to look at another's point of view objectively.  So this will (probably) be my last word on the subject.

Oh, and Warb:

Thanks for being calm and rational about all of this - if only we had more conservatives like you in this country.

Nanner Split said:

ChainsawAsh, I think I love you.  *kissy face*

Ah, I see.  My mistake.

I really hope nobody thought the 'bigger dick' thing was meant to be taken literally.  It's a figure of speech, a deliberate exaggeration for the sake of pointing out what is psychologically unsound about having a warlike point of view.  But if I have to explain the joke . . .

Also, despite referencing Carlin, I wasn't talking only about America--the basic description applies equally to every group in history that has ever thought itself superior to another while simultaneously fearing it, and used platitudes as an excuse to invade or otherwise subjugate their enemies.  Terrorists, communists, Nazis, crusaders, European imperialists, 'Manifest Destiny', the Inquisition--the list goes on and on, and the difference is only a matter of degree.  It's quite true that attitudes and tolerances of 'civilised' cultures have improved quite a lot recently, and I'm all manner of grateful for that, don't mistake me.  But that's often a moot point because our weapons have simultaneously become that much more deadly, so from an objective point of view getting worked up over nationalistic notions doesn't distinguish one from one's enemies in any meaningful way.

Everyone thinks they're the heroes and the good guys.  Somebody has to be wrong.  Could it be . . . everybody?

xhonzi said:

Wow, well said, Warb.  Maybe without my fellow conservatives getting you all riled up all of the time, the conservative side of Warbler will appear and fight on our side from time to time.

I would bet on it happening too often,  but perhaps now you see a little of why I don't consider myself a liberal.

 

And that's all I'm going to say about that.  Wait, no it's not.

If you live here and are anti-American, try spending some time outside of the US every now and then.  Man, does that always make me grateful to be an American.  And grateful towards all of those that have sacrificed to create and preserve my freedoms.

Now I'm done.  Wait, still not yet.  I shall show my patriotism (let my flag fly, so to speak) by singing the new national anthem:

Well I'm not paralyzed but I seem to be struck by you
I wanna make you move because you're standin' still
If your body matches what your eyes can do
You'll probably move right through me on my way to you

 

You'll probably move right through me on my way to you!

*hits Xhonzi over the head with a baseball bat*

ChainsawAsh said:

Oh, and Warb:

Thanks for being calm and rational about all of this - if only we had more conservatives like you in this country.

:o :o :o  *faints* 

Nanner Split said:

xhonzi said:

If you live here and are anti-American, try spending some time outside of the US every now and then.  Man, does that always make me grateful to be an American. 

I went to Germany over the summer and it was wonderful. I'd gladly move there if I could afford it. Were you merely referring to non-first-world countries outside of America? 

I think my journeys through the airports of those respective countries really helped summarize the attitudes of those countries as a whole. When I arrived in the airport in Frankfurt, we just stood in line for some guy to stamp our passports. When I arrived in Atlanta, we had to go through customs lines for over an hour, have our baggage checked AGAIN before we could board our transfer flights, and were just generally made to feel like sheep being herded through a big line. Welcoming, indeed. It was nice to go to a country that isn't crippled with fear for a change.

well maybe if German went through a 911,  things might change there too.

hairy_hen said:

I really hope nobody thought the 'bigger dick' thing was meant to be taken literally.  It's a figure of speech, a deliberate exaggeration for the sake of pointing out what is psychologically unsound about having a warlike point of view.  But if I have to explain the joke . . .

warlike point of view? 

hairy_hen said:

Also, despite referencing Carlin, I wasn't talking only about America--the basic description applies equally to every group in history that has ever thought itself superior to another while simultaneously fearing it, and used platitudes as an excuse to invade or otherwise subjugate their enemies.  Terrorists, communists, Nazis, crusaders, European imperialists, 'Manifest Destiny', the Inquisition--the list goes on and on, and the difference is only a matter of degree.  It's quite true that attitudes and tolerances of 'civilised' cultures have improved quite a lot recently, and I'm all manner of grateful for that, don't mistake me.  But that's often a moot point because our weapons have simultaneously become that much more deadly, so from an objective point of view getting worked up over nationalistic notions doesn't distinguish one from one's enemies in any meaningful way.

there is a BIG difference between the kind of nationlism involved with the nazis and my idea of patriotism.   It also doesn't involve  invading another county just because I feel superior towards and fear it.   I only approve of invading when I feel another nation poses a threat to mine and there is no other way of ending the threat.   War is a terrible thing, but sometimes its the only answer.   WWII is a good example of this.  

hairy_hen said:

Everyone thinks they're the heroes and the good guys.  Somebody has to be wrong.  Could it be . . . everybody?

everyone is wrong part of the time and right other times.   That's the way of humanity.