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I have a bad feeling about this...

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Ok I don't, but I have some questions that some hardcore fans might be able to answer. I just watched Episode IV for the first time since seeing EpIII, and now watching them in order it just seems even more wonderful. It always was, but it means so much more! Anyway, because of the new three there were a few things in EpIV which didn't make sense now we know of what happened before, so if you know the answer or have an idea, please answer!

1) Firstly I was wondering about their ages. I think Padme was supposed to be 13 when she was queen, and I guess Anakin was about 6 or 7. In EpII it was 10 years later so she would have been 23 and he 17, then EpIV I'm not sure if there was any indication of how long after it was, maybe 3 years or so. However, we have no indication of how old Obi-Wan is at any point, anyone have any clue? Also how old were Luke and Leia supposed to be in EpIV (this is also obviously howlong would have passed inbetween EpIII and EpIV).

2) In EpIV when Luke meets Obi-Wan, aka Ben, Kenobi there are a few things which didn't make sense. When Luke says hes looking for someone called Obi-Wan Kenobi, Ben says smething like "I haven't heard that name for a long time [..] I haven't gone by Obi-Wan since oh before you were born". However when Luke and Leia were born he was still known as Obi-Wan.

3) Ben also says he doesn't seem to remember owning a droid. How could he forget R2D2?! I though it was because R2 and C3PO were written into the recent ones afterwards, but then if R2 says Obi-Wan was his former master obviously GL already had decided R2 and C3PO were in I,II and III.

4) When talking about Lukes father in Bens home, Ben says Uncle Owen was against what his father did, that he didn't think he should get involved. But the only time Anakin ever met Owen was when he went looking for his mother. And even if their paths crossed after, I doubt Owen cared much for what Anakin did, and certainly didn't tell him not to get involved. I always imagined from EpV that Owen knew Anakin better.

5) When Ben gives Luke Anakins lightsabre he says "your father wanted me to give this to you". Well I seem to remember Obi-Wan picking it up after chopping Anakins legs off! Maybe he meant "would have wanted"

Ok those are the questions - I know they are picky and the fact IV, V and VI were made first is probably the reason that not everything fits, still I am a perfectionist and so like it all to fit smoothly, hence the reason I am trying to convince myself of a possible answer to these. I also think GL made so many small, unimportant things fit that I can't see why he would overlook these obvious things.


I also wanted to ask if you agree on the following

7) In EpIV when Leia gives away the rebel location, she says Dantowin, which turns out to be an old rebel base. I was wondering if this might be the one we see at the end of EpIII where Luke and Leia are born, as this is hidden away and I can imagine it becming deserted.

8) Yoda says to Obi-Wan that on Tatooine he will be able to contact an old friend, Qui-Gon. Why is this? Obviously we never see Qui-Gon in EpV so I wondered why GL even bothered adding this. I thought that maybe its because in Ep IV, V and VI we see and hear Obi-Wan, Yoda etc after they're dead and this was just GLs way of suggesting how this is possible.


Anyway, sorry this is so long, if you have opinions on any of this I would like to hear it!
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Most, if not all of these have been 'answered' (explained is probably a better word) in various other threads. Ill try to some up the major points but i suggest you read some of the previous posts for much more information.

1) Episode I its 14 (Padme), 9 (Anakin) I think Obi-Wan is around 20. Ep II is 10 years later. then im not totally sure on time from II to III but its probalby only a couple years max (if not shorter). Then its 20 years to Ep IV. Obi-Wan is (iirc) in his late 50's (I have an interview at home in a SW insider that says his ages)

2) This is basically an inconsistancy introduced by the PT. but not a major one really, it would have been a short time after their birth that he stopped going by obi-wan

3) he never owned R2. R2 saying that Obi-Wan was his former master was just because of the mission Leia gave him.

4) only time Anakin meet owen on screen. And if i remember the line its 'he thought you'r father should have stayed out of it' or something along those lines. nothing about telling Anakin not to get involved. Maybe he expressed that thought to Obi-Wan when he dropped off Luke (as thats also the first time that we know of that Obi-Wan and Owen meet). I think most people thought Owen knew Anakin better and vice versa. but thats your thoughts from seeing before the PT was made, thats not how it is.

5) because 'I took this from your father after I cut him in half and left him for dead, and am now giving it to you so i can train you as a Jedi to kill your father' sounds so much better and why wouldnt Luke follow him after that kind of honesty. I really fail to see why Ben's 'lies' are such an issue. He gives Luke enough information (sometimes from a certain point of view) that he will be able to handle but gives him what he needs to know at the time.

Yes Lucas could have (should have) made everything fit alot smoother, but he didnt. Some issues couse bigger problems than others. Some are essentially non existant if your not so anal (not saying that your being anal, just a generic comment to people that complain about every little aspect of it) Like Ben's 'lying' he 'lied' throught the OT, now because comments he made in the PT make stuff seem as 'bigger lies' or add in 'new lies' its a big deal?

6) i was just wondering what happened to this as you went from 5 to 7 yet call yourself a perfectionist and state that your comments are picky

7) possibly, I know some of that time was on the Tantive IV (the blockade runner from the start of Episode IV) but I believe there was a base shown. but in 20 years anything can become deserted. and as seen in ESB the rebels moved/deserted bases all the time to avoid being detected (that happens in an underground war). Plus, the rebellion really wasnt formed at that point.

8) yes, thats exactly why he did it. you answered your own question. Mine is did he do this because fan's wanted/needed an explanation or he felt that the audience did. I personally never really questioned it. and if someone did bring it up, it didnt bother me cause i was able to make complete sense out of it (at least for myself)

-Darth Simon
Why Anakin really turned to the dark side:
"Anakin, You're father I am" - Yoda
"No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!" - Anakin

0100111001101001011011100110101001100001

*touchy people disclaimer*
some or all of the above comments are partially exaggerated to convey a point, none of the comments are meant as personal attacks on anyone mentioned or reference in the above post
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First of all, welcome to the boards! It seems you have been stymied by OT>PT continuity errors. Don't worry. So is almost everyone else here. Let's see if I can answer some of these questions for you!

1. Actually, if I recall correctly, Padme was 14, and Anakin was 9, which would make them 24 and 19, respectively, in Attack of the Clones. I can't remember Ben's age, though. Luke and Leia were early 20s, again, I don't remember the exact age they were supposed to be. Sorry.

2. Yup, you are correct. Just chalk it up to Lucas not paying attention when he wrote Revenge of the Sith.

3. Actually, R2 never says he's searching for his former master. It is Luke who suggests this to Ben ("I think he's searching for his former master, but I've never seen such devotion in a droid before.") Due to Revenge of the Sith, we are supposed to believe that, since only 3PO received a mind wipe, that R2 does remember Obi-Wan, and that's the reason he's so eager to complete his mission. And I suppose we're also supposed to assume that Ben is just covering up, but I really don't buy it. It seems kind of weak to me. Your first guess was right. The droids were just put in there for fandom's sake, but it seems a heavy price to pay. They never really seemed to fit in, did they?

4. Yeah, I always pictured it that way, too, before the prequels, but I suppose I can accept this one without too much struggle. This is all part of Ben's attempt to cover up Luke's father's origins "from a certain point of view."

5. Once again, this is just for Luke's benefit. I can't remember who said it here, but it really amused me. It was something like, "What did you want him to tell Luke? 'I nearly killed him and then took his lightsaber from his dying body'?!" There are some people, however, who would consider this a continuity error. I think that's taking it a bit far.

After 5. 6, I suppose, since you had no 6. Yeah, I wish it had all fit too, as I am also a perfectionist. And there are many here who feel the same way, but there really is just no way to reconcile everything that was done in the PT to the OT. It's sad.

7. Hmm, you got me there. There are many people who have read the script/novel, who can answer that one for you.

8. Yes, the point was (although it came across quite unclear in the movie, unless you already knew what Yoda was talking about) Qui-Gon had become the first Jedi to learn how to become one with the Force (ie. become a Force ghost). In a deleted scene or a scene that wasn't shot (I can't remember which), Qui-Gon appears to Yoda and teaches him how to do it, and that's why he tells Obi-Wan to seek him out on Tatooine to also learn this ability. That's why Vader seems so surprised when he kills Obi-Wan because it's something that hasn't happened in recorded history.

Well, I hope this answers your questions, and I hope you have a good time on these boards!

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Aww, Darth Simon. You got there one minute before me!

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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hehe, sorry

btw, just like to add to your answer for number 3, that I beleive C-3PO says 'He claims to be the property of some Obi-Wan Kenobi, a resident of these parts. I personally dont know what he's talking about, our last master was Captain Antillies'

and also, for number five, it as me that said that in another thread damn, wish i could find that thread as I didnt save the exact text.

*edit, sweet i found it.

Think about how Luke would react if Ben responded like this when Luke said that R2 'claims to be the property of some Obi-Wan Kenobi, do you know whats hes talking about?"

Ben: "Oh, R2. Hows it going, long time no see. Yeah, Luke, this droid actually belonged to your father before he turned to the Dark Side and became Darth Vader. He actually built the protocol droid R2 hangs out with too. But after he turned and his wife, your mom, died. Oh that was in child birth by the way, we gave the droids to Captain Antillies and had C-3PO's memory wiped. that was at the same time we sent you here to live with your uncle, and we sent your twin sister...oh, forgot, yeah, you have a twin sister who we seperated from you at birth and whos identity we kept hidden from you. Shes the one in the message, so get those nasty thoughts out of your head boy. Oh, before i forget, heres your Dad's lightsaber. I took it after i cut him in half and left him for dead on a volcanic planet. he was in pretty bad shape, but the emperor fixed him up with the mechanical body he has now...you know, maybe leaving him there wasnt the best idea in retrospect...oh well. Anyway, go pack your bags, you gotta learn the ways of the force and come with me so you can defeat your father."


-Darth Simon
Why Anakin really turned to the dark side:
"Anakin, You're father I am" - Yoda
"No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!" - Anakin

0100111001101001011011100110101001100001

*touchy people disclaimer*
some or all of the above comments are partially exaggerated to convey a point, none of the comments are meant as personal attacks on anyone mentioned or reference in the above post
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Originally posted by: Darth Simon
Most, if not all of these have been 'answered' (explained is probably a better word) in various other threads. Ill try to some up the major points but i suggest you read some of the previous posts for much more information.

I was too lazy to trawl through all the previous posts sorry! I will have a look as I love reading what other people have asked and their opinion,s but first of all wanted to get my Qs out of the way (they were all swimming round in my head having watched the OT for the first time in ages today)


Thanks both for your answers, and well done for spotting there was no 6, I wondered if anyone would notice Its good to see others have also thought on these things. I didn't mean to come accross as "anal" though I can see exactly why you'd think that! I think a lot of these things were there because it was hard to find a way to fit everything into the PT, but what I hoped for was other ppl who had given it some thought and could convince me that it was supposed to be like that and why, so that when you watch them you don't feel there are any errors there, if you get my meaning (sir). Now they all fit so well, when I watched ANH today it meant so much more, I always loved it of course but all those little things like Vador and Obi-Wan meeting, so much more meaning and depth





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The planet seen at the end of RotS where Baby Leia is taken is Alderaan, which the Death Star destroys in ANH.

Dantooine is on the other side of the Galaxy from Tatooine; it's a grassland planet where an ancient Jedi Enclave once served as a Rebel Base, but it was deserted for "Some time" before ANH.

4

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Thanks, Simon, you're absolutely right about R2 saying that. I forgot. I still think it would make more sense if that was simply part of Leia's programming, but it does seem that Lucas at least tried to make that make sense. Seems a little bit forced in my opinion, but there are many more major things to complain about. I still find it hard to believe that R2 would have kept quiet about that for 20 years and think that both droids should have been wiped, but it makes a little more sense now in terms of story, but I don't see why they wouldn't. R2 can only communicate in beeps and whistles, but he can still communicate with other droids, and there are programs to decipher his speech, so if they were trying to get rid of information, they should have wiped R2 as well.

Hehe, thanks, great quote. I don't think it would have hurt, though, to simply say he used to know R2 and leave it at that. Once again, I think that could have been handled better. But I'm glad you're around to catch my mistakes. ^_~

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
The planet seen at the end of RotS where Baby Leia is taken is Alderaan, which the Death Star destroys in ANH.

Dantooine is on the other side of the Galaxy from Tatooine; it's a grassland planet where an ancient Jedi Enclave once served as a Rebel Base, but it was deserted for "Some time" before ANH.


I believe he was refering to the moon-like planet that they show right before the scene where Yoda tells Obi-Wan about Qui-Gon. But yeah, if Dantooine is a grassland planet (is this in the novel or EU?) then it wouldnt have been the planet he's refering to.

-Darth Simon
Why Anakin really turned to the dark side:
"Anakin, You're father I am" - Yoda
"No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!" - Anakin

0100111001101001011011100110101001100001

*touchy people disclaimer*
some or all of the above comments are partially exaggerated to convey a point, none of the comments are meant as personal attacks on anyone mentioned or reference in the above post
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Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
The planet seen at the end of RotS where Baby Leia is taken is Alderaan, which the Death Star destroys in ANH.

Dantooine is on the other side of the Galaxy from Tatooine; it's a grassland planet where an ancient Jedi Enclave once served as a Rebel Base, but it was deserted for "Some time" before ANH.


That's what I thought he was talking about too, Chaltab, but he's referring to the location where Padme gives bith and dies.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Dangit, you beat me again, Simon!

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Oops, sorry. I guess it's the Luke avatar that makes us think you're a male. I should know better, since I have a Leia avatar, and I'm male.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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When I was younger I used to fancy the pants off Luke, hence the choice of avator!
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And yes I did mean the moon-type planet and not Alderaan
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Well, I still "fancy the pants"... er, slave costume ^_~ off of Leia. Plus, I wanted my avatar to fit my name.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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BY the way, was it just me or did EpI and II end in the same way as IV and V respectively (I/IV celebrations and awards after winning the battle, II/V Anakin & Padme/Luke & Leia gazing out together in uncertainty at what was coming) Maybe this is an obvious thing that everyone knows, but you have to understand none of my friends really like SW so thats why I'm asking so many Qs on here!
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my apologies as well (Gaffer you beat me this time )

Gaffer, I agree that the Obi-Wan thing should have been part of R2's programming from Leia as well. and thats actually how I always saw it. Im just trying to offer explanations on how it fits into the story with the PT. And to take that a step further (the programming thing that is) I guess I may have always saw it as R2 just saying that on his own. For the following reasoning.

Leia 'programs' him to find ben and deliver 'this' message to him. Leia records the message and uploads the plans. Now, the droids obviously have some pretty decent AI so did she physically program R2 or did she just simply 'ask' him to bring the message to Ben. Remember when they go to Jabba's Palace to deliver the message, it didnt appear that they were programmed to do so, more that Luke 'told' them (well artoo at least ) the plan and Artoo followed it. So now when R2 says that he's looking for his master its basically as a way to maybe even get whoever finds him to bring him to Obi-Wan (R2 doesnt know that Obi-Wan now goes by Ben, though he does seem to have a general idea where to look for him). But Artoo is always (ok, generally) on his game and knows whats up and what to do (ill give ya that power socket/computer terminal mix up, but it was kinda threepio's fault )

Does that make sense? I hope so, though it may just be babble.

-Darth Simon

mmm, Slave outfit...so hot, want to touch the hiney
Why Anakin really turned to the dark side:
"Anakin, You're father I am" - Yoda
"No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!" - Anakin

0100111001101001011011100110101001100001

*touchy people disclaimer*
some or all of the above comments are partially exaggerated to convey a point, none of the comments are meant as personal attacks on anyone mentioned or reference in the above post
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"Guys, he is a she!"

Prove it!

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Originally posted by: Rarchy
BY the way, was it just me or did EpI and II end in the same way as IV and V respectively (I/IV celebrations and awards after winning the battle, II/V Anakin & Padme/Luke & Leia gazing out together in uncertainty at what was coming) Maybe this is an obvious thing that everyone knows, but you have to understand none of my friends really like SW so thats why I'm asking so many Qs on here!


yeah, i think it pretty much does, ive seen the parallels before myself. But honestly i have a problem with it. When ANH ended, it had the possibility of being the only one. Due to its success Lucas was able to go ahead and make ESB and ROTJ, and they flow as one story, even though ESB ends everything isnt wrapped up all nicely.

In TPM Lucas does this same thing, with ending it, its all pretty much wrapped up. But he knew that there would be an Episode II and III so why did he make it have a 'stand alone' ending. I think he should have went more with a LOTR type story for these and have all 3 movies tell one continuous story (the rise and fall of Anakin). basically give them all endings like ESB, so its not 'ok, thats 2 hours, cut the film here everything after it will be the next movie' but so they all continue together and if watched back to back would be one 6+ hour long movie

-Darth Simon
Why Anakin really turned to the dark side:
"Anakin, You're father I am" - Yoda
"No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!" - Anakin

0100111001101001011011100110101001100001

*touchy people disclaimer*
some or all of the above comments are partially exaggerated to convey a point, none of the comments are meant as personal attacks on anyone mentioned or reference in the above post
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thats risky thou, you remember how much PJ was yelled at by critiques and the public for do that.
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I see what you mean. The ending of EpI almost suggests that the battle is won and everythings fine and dandy -although were there problems with the senate? (or whatever it was called then, to be honest I have problems understanding the politics of the PT, is there a site anywhere which explains it all?!)

Also, you say that ANH had a possibility of just being a one off, I presume this is only because Lucas didn't know whether it would be successful or not as he'd already written all of them and obviously he wouldn't make Vadors ship get away if there wasn't going to be follow ups.

By the way, does anyone know if he wrote all 6 before any of them were films, or just the middle 3. Or is it 9? Or is this something which is argued a lot
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i think he wrote the plot outlines for 12, then he fleshed out 4 through 6 because he didnt think that the story of 1-3 would catch peoples attention.
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my understanding (someone correct me if im wrong) is that he at least claims something similar to what Shimraa said... that the basic story was written (i thought it was 9 movies) and he choose that middle section to tell. And yes, from what ive heard he didnt know if the movie would be successful and if he would be able to actually make IV and VI so he made IV so that it could stand alone. Hence the reason why when it was first released it didnt have the Episode IV A New Hope in the crawl. (this change I dont mind, though some people seem to, I like the fact that some of the LD->DVD transfers (EditDroid) have included both crawls because i think its neat to see that, but i do feel that this was part of his original plan for the OT, that is to have it as Episode IV)

as far as getting 'yelled at' by critics and the public, I say those critics and pubic that did the yelling dont know what their talking about and need to remove their heads from their anus. The LOTR books which PJ based the movies on didnt wrap up all nicely after each book. Its just like people that said he was trying to capitalize off the title 'The Two Towers'. someone should put people like that out of my misery.

but anyway, i digress.
Rarchy after reading your post Im second guessing what I said, I think it could/does work with the ending of TPM being 'happy' If you look at it from a not knowing the story in the OT point of view, as far as you know everything was made all better, Palpatine appears to be a good guy who is just trying to get the republic back on track and that is accomplished (for the most part) at the end. there are some hints of more to come from Qui-Gons funeral scene and Yoda/Mace's convo. I guess I thought the celebration parade was just a bit too much

-Darth Simon
Why Anakin really turned to the dark side:
"Anakin, You're father I am" - Yoda
"No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!" - Anakin

0100111001101001011011100110101001100001

*touchy people disclaimer*
some or all of the above comments are partially exaggerated to convey a point, none of the comments are meant as personal attacks on anyone mentioned or reference in the above post
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You know what I think would be neat- if someone made a trilogy set with the original '77 crawl for SW and new crawls for TESB and ROTJ that said "Episode II" and "Episode III", respectively.

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition