Sign In

I don't think Revenge Of The Sith is as good as everyone says it is. — Page 2

Author
Time

Great thread to discuss it. I find it really interesting how ROTS has become more and more popular over the years, and I regularly see people acting like it’s hands-down the best Star Wars film. It’s such a contrast to even a few years ago.

I’ve been saying it’s one of if not the best for as long as I can remember. People used to laugh at me, now they laugh with me.

In pretty much every fan community (except possibly here), Quite a few people consider the movie to be one of their favorites

You can cross out those parentheses.

At least until a couple years ago most people here would tell you ROTS is either dead last or second to last in a “Best To Worst” list

No, it’s always been widely (albeit not universally) considered the best of the Prequels.

I think both TPM and ROTS get bad reps for being connected to the shitstorm that is AOTC.

I agree that AotC is miles worse than the other two.

What makes ROTS worse for me is that it’s “good” mainly for events that would have happened regardless of the movie they were delivered in.

Those events are a big part of what makes it great for me, regardless how well they handle them.

Prequel fans are taking the criticisms that fans of the Originals heaped upon the Prequels and passing those same complaints along to the Sequels.

The criticisms are completely different, though. It’s like the OT got split Dark Crystal style between the PT and ST and each one got half of its strengths and half of its weaknesses.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

I echo the general sentiment that the actual events in the movie are compelling, but the execution, especially the dialogue, doesn’t do justice to the dramatic tragedy the movie is supposed to be depicting. My hot take is that TCW actually makes ROTS worse though.

TCW shows us a far more compelling characterisation of Anakin, fleshes out his grievances with the Jedi, makes him sympathetic and likeable - and even in the final episodes, it goes out of its way to build tension around Anakin’s fall via Ahsoka’s disbelief and Maul’s fear. Then you watch ROTS and enjoy lines like “I would certainly like to!” and “I will discover the truth of all this… 😃” as a lobotomised Anakin fails to have any strong emotional response whatsoever to finding out one of his father figures orchestrated the war he’s been fighting - and has lost many friends in - for essentially his entire adult life. Anakin and Obi-Wan’s legendary TCW bromance concludes with… Obi-Wan shouting about democracy and a robotic Anakin forgetting exactly why he sided with Palpatine in the first place.

By making the audience more engaged in Anakin’s story, TCW makes ROTS all the more disappointing and frustrating as a botched execution of the most pivotal moment in the franchise’s story. I almost feel as if the overall Star Wars saga would be stronger if ROTS was left implied, and you just skip from the Siege of Mandalore to ANH.

Author
Time

J0E said:

I agree, but I disagree with it being the best of the prequels.

It has highs as high as Jedi, but the lows are lower than Clones. There’s a lot more lows than highs. There’s good fan edits of the film. Add few extended/deleted scenes, cut a lot of the filler and it’s a solid 6/10. The official edits though are like 4/10. Most of my problems with the movie are it’s pacing and it’s tonal inconsistency. I also really don’t like how everything is wrapped up at the end to lead right into Star Wars. It’s lazy.

I still maintain that The (theatrical cut of the) Phantom Menace has aged the best out of the prequels. It’s pacing, it’s tonal consistency mixed with using actual sets, miniatures, costumes, etc. It’s sound design is absolutely fantastic. It’s a competently made movie that’s bogged down by cringe slapstick and bad writing. Overall though, it’s a 5.5/10.

Good post.

Dek Rollins said:

Handman said:

Phantom Menace is the best prequel. It’s the closest to an actual movie.

This.

And ROTS is the absolute worst of the prequels.

Absolutely agree.

Author
Time

Rodney-2187 said:

Prequel fans are taking the criticisms that fans of the Originals heaped upon the Prequels and passing those same complaints along to the Sequels. It’s a new Star Wars tradition it would seem. Everyone overlooks the flaws in the things they enjoy, but are entirely intolerant of similar flaws in other things.

Sure, movies made in different eras by different people have their own unique qualities and therefore certain unique flaws, but all the Star Wars movies (including the Originals) have a lot more in common regarding flaws than some seem willing to admit.

I feel fairly certain we will eventually see Sequel fans and Skywalker Saga fans saying the same things about whatever comes next, though I think the majority of people have a very positive outlook on the Star Wars franchise as a whole.

Is Revenge of the Sith any good? It’s as good or as bad as any other Star Wars movie.
“Your focus determines your reality.” - Qui-Gon Jinn

+1

Author
Time

Rodney-2187 said:

Is Revenge of the Sith any good? It’s as good or as bad as any other Star Wars movie.

Sure the movies all have flaws, but there’s gotta be a bounds of reason here, right? Why even have a discussion if AOTC or the 2003 Clone Wars movie is on the same level as SW or ESB?

Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change? - oojason
Episode 9 Rewrite THE SHATTERED SWORD (Complete!)
The Force Awakens Restructured (V3 Released!) and The Starlight Project (WORKPRINT RELEASED!)

Author
Time

NeverarGreat said:

Rodney-2187 said:

Is Revenge of the Sith any good? It’s as good or as bad as any other Star Wars movie.

Sure the movies all have flaws, but there’s gotta be a bounds of reason here, right? Why even have a discussion if AOTC or the 2003 Clone Wars movie is on the same level as SW or ESB?

Hey, the 2003 Clone Wars movie was great! 😉

But I agree that there are bounds of reason. The idea that all Star Wars movies are the same level of quality just doesn’t make any sense to me.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

NeverarGreat said:

Sure the movies all have flaws, but there’s gotta be a bounds of reason here, right? Why even have a discussion if AOTC or the 2003 Clone Wars movie is on the same level as SW or ESB?

StarkillerAG said:

Hey, the 2003 Clone Wars movie was great! 😉

But I agree that there are bounds of reason. The idea that all Star Wars movies are the same level of quality just doesn’t make any sense to me.

That’s not exactly what I was trying to say. All Star Wars movies are not created equally. Also, entirely different people are bound to have entirely different opinions. I certainly didn’t mean to imply otherwise. Art is subjective, but yes, there are definitely objective statements that can be made regarding quality.

I just think it’s funny when fans of one set of Star Wars movies will defend against criticism, but then level the exact same criticism on another set of Star Wars movies. Then fans of those particular movies use the exact same counter arguments as before.

I’m talking about critiques like poor dialogue, wooden actors, and plot holes. Or when people chalk everything up to nostalgia or the lack of it, and how old you were when you first saw it. It’s like poetry, it rhymes versus something being unoriginal. There’s a long list.

It’s like a game of Mad Libs. If you erased the names of movies and and characters, lots of criticisms as well as the rebuttals would fit more than one Star Wars movie from more than one era.

I didn’t mean to say all movies are equal, just that people are more forgiving of flaws in the movies they like, for whatever reason, but more critical of similar flaws in another they may not be a fan of, for whatever reason.

Author
Time

Revenge of the Sith had a good enough last act to make people remember it more fondly than it probably should be. It’s very much like “Jurassic World” in that sense: It’s probably not THAT good a movie, but it hits that last half-hour so hard that you’re not against watching it again if given the chance.

The Siege of Mandalore arc on Clone Wars is a better Revenge of the Sith than Revenge of the Sith was. I don’t think that’s exaggeration, either - it does the things that movie wants to do, but does them better. Which is probably why people took on the task of trying to cut the two together despite the fact even the best attempts at it would come off like that weird, ungainly “Watchmen Ultimate Cut”

Author
Time

Jurassic World was crap, and I say that as someone who liked JPII and JPIII.

Author
Time

Rodney-2187 said:

NeverarGreat said:

Sure the movies all have flaws, but there’s gotta be a bounds of reason here, right? Why even have a discussion if AOTC or the 2003 Clone Wars movie is on the same level as SW or ESB?

StarkillerAG said:

Hey, the 2003 Clone Wars movie was great! 😉

But I agree that there are bounds of reason. The idea that all Star Wars movies are the same level of quality just doesn’t make any sense to me.

people are more forgiving of flaws in the movies they like, for whatever reason, but more critical of similar flaws in another they may not be a fan of, for whatever reason.

Everyone’s opinions on media are valid, but I fully believe that the reasons people give for it are usually dumb, and often not the real reason someone likes or dislikes something.

Like, for example, 90% of all plot holes that people talk about aren’t real. They’re often just something people bring up to make a critique of some media deeper than it otherwise would be.

Death of the Author

Author
Time
 (Edited)

J0E said:

I still maintain that The (theatrical cut of the) Phantom Menace has aged the best out of the prequels. It’s pacing, it’s tonal consistency mixed with using actual sets, miniatures, costumes, etc. It’s sound design is absolutely fantastic. It’s a competently made movie that’s bogged down by cringe slapstick and bad writing. Overall though, it’s a 5.5/10.

I concur. Visual design, sound design and soundtrack, great sets and props, and that overall feel of a wonderous, new universe are strong point of TPM and this makes it the best prequel movie for me. I find it to be more of a boring than a bad movie. And one that can be salvaged by a good fan edit. I wonder if Deepfake will soon be advanced and easy enough to use by someone to attempt to “hack” AotC’s 19 year old Anakin into TPM as a more rogue-ish hotshot pilot wannabe Jedi in place of 9 year old Jake Lloyd. That, and a suitable replacement for Jar Jar plus some dialogue changes and minor restructuring might actually turn it into a solid, good movie.

The less said about AotC, the better. There are a few good things about it - I liked some of the vehicle designs, Across the Stars, Geonosis as a locale and Jango vs Obi-Wan on Kamino was a refresher from lightsaber duels - but overall it is just a bad, boring movie. I see it best serving as a source for fan edits of TPM and RotS as a duology.

RotS is a mess. It has frequent tonal shifts that completely take you out of the moment, such as the jarring switches between serious (and great) and terribly badly written, acted and directed segments of the Battle of Coruscant. The movie does have some, few, high points. Padme’s ruminations scene comes to mind. But its lows are really, truly bad. People sitting on sofas and talking Yes, RLM was right about this one and it definitely has not aged well. With some exceptions, them being parts the space battle and the duel on Mustafar, the CGI has aged very badly. The climactic duels were too drawn out and over the top, Order 66 was a boring montage, Grevious was awful and Dooku died way too early. Anakin’s fall was just atrocious.

Someone very talented with a decent budget could cut AotC and RotS into a decent, watchable movie. But for me, RotS has never been a favourite and in fact, has aged quite poorly

Apologies for typos, writing from mobile.