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I don't care one bit about the fate of prequel characters — Page 2

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i liked it better when Vader's Origin was Vague.. now he kinda looks like a freaking insure wimp and not a killing machine cyborg... who happens to find the goodness within at the end...
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Originally posted by: Kaal-Jhyy
Well, I'm not sure of that.

Of course, he doesn't have the talent he had during the OT anymore (I'm just talking about his "talent" concerning SW, not future non-SW projects, we'll see for that...), and the magic that was in the OT doesn't work in the PT, ok.

But, sorry, I really think that he believes hard (and work hard) in his movies. The term "lazy" is really not appropriate, especially when we see the amount of work in the making of a SW movie...

Concerning the term "bastard", well, I'm really sorry to hear so many people having no respect. Hey, GL doesn't owe you anything, he makes his movies as he want to. That is. If you don't like it, ok, it's you're right, but please stop with insults...
The 2004 DVD set was an insult from Lucas to his fans/customers. But you are correct - bastard may be a bit hard - I'll take that back and call him a lazy liar then.

You are also right he worked hard - to modernize the process of filmmaking, but he most certainly didn't spend much time about the actors, the story and the fans. Something he already had quarrels about during the production of "Empire strikes Back". He doesn't believe in spending heartblood for something he considers a commercial product.

When it comes down to that 'respect' thing: George Lucas never seemed to have any kind of respect for his fans/customers. If that would be different this site would never have come into existence.
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"The point of this story is that people love good movies, young or old."

Sure, sure. How come Never Ending Story did so well??? Let's not even mention Pearl Harbour.
VADER: Let me look on you with my own eyes...

LUKE: Dad, where are your eyebrows?

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=WO_S6UgkQk0
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Originally posted by: Kaal-Jhyy
Well, that's all the point. I've always though that hardcore (OT) fans take Star Wars really too seriously... just my opinion...
I take it serious when someone lies to the public. I take it serious when someone deliberately makes the decision to sell an inferior product and claims it represents the best he could do, when it's pretty obvious it is not. It's not really about StarWars itself, but the attitude the man (and the companies he founded) developed towards the fans of his creation (this includes the fans of the prequels). That's what I'm pissed about.

On another notice: We are all hardcore fans - hence our presence here. So I would welcome it, if you wouldn't take yourself out of the line of fire here.
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Originally posted by: Zebonka
"The point of this story is that people love good movies, young or old."

Sure, sure. How come Never Ending Story did so well??? Let's not even mention Pearl Harbour.
Well, here in germany only the first two NES films did well (and the second only did well because people thought it would be like the first film, I remember a lot of disappointed faces _after_ the screening), the third film flopped. When it comes down to pearl harbour, I suppose it was mostly because there wasn't any decent film dealing with that topic - when you compare it to the older pearl harbour themed films, it's still the 'best' (as far as I remember) although I myself wouldn't watch it a second time.

But you do have a point. There are 'bad' movies that do well in the box office nonetheless.
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Originally posted by: Kaal-Jhyy
Originally posted by: battlewars
lucas just doesnt take star wars as seriously as his fans do, which sucks


Well, that's all the point. I've always though that hardcore (OT) fans take Star Wars really too seriously... just my opinion...


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I think the seriousness or hatred toward Lucas is directly linked to the frustration of not releasing the originals. Sure people take it too far in calling Lucas several names that are inappropriate, but it's the internet. By Lucas not releasing the originals he has done two things to the fanbase.

1. He has split them generationally now after completing the PT. Before you could argue which is better Star Wars or ESB? ESB or ROTJ? Now it is utter hatred toward the other side, as Anakin said in ROTS, "Either you're with me, or your my enemy!" Many younger fans blindly follow Lucas in anything he says or does, and many older fans totally disdain the guy now, and you literally have SW web pages made for OT lovers, where PT lovers are in the minority, and vice versa. Even Lucas acknowledges there is a over 25 fanbase and an under 25 fanbase.

2. By not releasing the O-OT, the older fan feels disrespected, and that has fueled more hatred toward Lucas. For 20 years older fans bought every action figure, every VHS release and re-release box set, and probably have 3 or 4 versions of it, but we can't get one stinkin DVD set of the O-OT? And it isn't even the 1997 version, it is SE OT 3.0 version of 2004, where you have Hayden as a force ghost in ROTJ now. Lucas says statements that , "Sorry you fell in love with a 25% completed film" when talking about the original and "If you wan't the O-OT go buy the VHS, I am not putting money to re-do them." Older fans here that and Lucas is just giving us the finger, and doesn't care because he has such a huge base now, he can do whatever he wants.

I guarantee you if he released the O-OT, the debates of Han shooting first, and Hayden as a force ghost will fall by the waste side, cause we will have the movies we grew up with, and if Lucas changes them, who really cares anymore? That would also temper the hatred for the PT too, as people would identify with the O-OT again, and try to put the PT in the past, as saying, "Either take it or leave it."

For me, if I get the O-OT on DVD, you will never hear from me about SW again, that will be closure, and the future of SW and what Lucas does will not concern me one bit. But as long as I keep coming to this site everyday, and there isn't an announcement on the O-OT on DVD, my frustration toward Lucas will never die, and I can take them out in these forums here.

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Originally posted by: Adamwankenobi
I mean, it made me cry the first time I saw it in the theater.
LOL!!!!!

War does not make one great.

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Originally posted by: sikkbones
i liked it better when Vader's Origin was Vague.. now he kinda looks like a freaking insure wimp and not a killing machine cyborg... who happens to find the goodness within at the end...


I think that was the point.
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Originally posted by: Yoda Is Your Father
Originally posted by: Adamwankenobi
I mean, it made me cry the first time I saw it in the theater.
LOL!!!!!


I don't find that humorous. The PT has been a big part of my life and means to me what the OT has meant to you.
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Ok, but there's one important thing you don't understand.
Star Wars is Lucas' creation, and for him, every new "enhanced" version is some sort of update, not an alternate version. From his point of view, it's normal that he doesn't want to release the O-OT on DVD.
But don't misunderstand me, I'd love to have the O-OT on an official DVD too!

And you're claiming that Lucas considers Star Wars a commercial product and "he fully depended on the commercial momentum the OT still had". If it was the case, don't you think that he would already have released every movie in several versions (I'm talking about DVDs)? From a purely commercial point of view, it would be very fructuous to release the original versions of the movies (including TPM and AOTC), as well as the "final" versions, and maybe the OT SE. In this case, many fans would have bough 2 or 3 different versions of the same movies -> pretty commercial, isn't it?
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Originally posted by: Kaal-Jhyy
Ok, but there's one important thing you don't understand. Star Wars is Lucas' creation, and for him, every new "enhanced" version is some sort of update, not an alternate version. From his point of view, it's normal that he doesn't want to release the O-OT on DVD. I know that, but since StarWars became a phenomenom of modern culture StarWars isn't about George Lucas alone anymore - and that's what he fails to see.

And you're claiming that Lucas considers Star Wars a commercial product and "he fully depended on the commercial momentum the OT still had". If it was the case, don't you think that he would already have released every movie in several versions (I'm talking about DVDs)? From a purely commercial point of view, it would be very fructuous to release the original versions of the movies (including TPM and AOTC), as well as the "final" versions, and maybe the OT SE. In this case, many fans would have bough 2 or 3 different versions of the same movies -> pretty commercial, isn't it?
They did. Just look back how often StarWars was sold to us. And he can't sell to us what doesn't exist by his own rational (which you re-elaborated above). On top of that, he openly stated that he doesn't consider a re-release of the original cuts to be a commercially viable option.
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Originally posted by: Adamwankenobi
Originally posted by: Yoda Is Your Father
Originally posted by: Adamwankenobi
I mean, it made me cry the first time I saw it in the theater.
LOL!!!!!


I don't find that humorous. The PT has been a big part of my life and means to me what the OT has meant to you.
I concur. Pulling cheap jokes off of other peoples' honesty is hardly honorable. Eventhough I know AWK's old track record of insults, I think he earns some respect for his efforts to lead a serious discussion. I'm a bit disappointed that Jay's decision to give him another chance earns so much disrespect.

AWK, I know a lot of people were emotionally touched by Anakin's (ROTS) death scene the first time they saw it in the theatre (myself included, and I'm of older age). So don't let yourself be fooled about that. I also think that the problem was not that that special scene was screwed up, but that (as was illustrated above) the movies didn't do a very good job as to attach the audience to the main characters of the story. If you felt attached to the characters nonetheless, it's something people should (and probably do) envy you for.

I had these emotional moments with the original trilogy as a kid, so I'm not too bitter about having missed out on that in the prequels. I'm just bitter about Lucas & company lying around like we're all some kind of idiots for being hooked onto StarWars.
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Originally posted by: Kaal-Jhyy
Ok, but there's one important thing you don't understand.
Star Wars is Lucas' creation, and for him, every new "enhanced" version is some sort of update, not an alternate version. From his point of view, it's normal that he doesn't want to release the O-OT on DVD.
But don't misunderstand me, I'd love to have the O-OT on an official DVD too!

And you're claiming that Lucas considers Star Wars a commercial product and "he fully depended on the commercial momentum the OT still had". If it was the case, don't you think that he would already have released every movie in several versions (I'm talking about DVDs)? From a purely commercial point of view, it would be very fructuous to release the original versions of the movies (including TPM and AOTC), as well as the "final" versions, and maybe the OT SE. In this case, many fans would have bough 2 or 3 different versions of the same movies -> pretty commercial, isn't it?


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There are two ways of looking at Lucas not releasing the O-OT on DVD:

1. He is totally flipped his lid, and will keep making changes upon changes in every new release and it is to the point of being laughable.

2. He is making the public wait for the O-OT on purpose, if we got a seamless branching DVD in 2004 with SE & O-OT, they would be no demand for them anymore. Alot of older fans would be done with buying SW. But if Lucas releases the 6 box set in 2007 this time with all 6 movies, and then a seamless branching O-OT with it, then he could milk everyone of us who don't love the PT to buy this huge box set where we only like half the movies. So anyone who bought the 2004 SE will definitely have to rebuy the O-OT.

Either Lucas is genius if he does this, or he is gone totally bonkers and doesn't care. We'll wait and see........
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OK, fair points all round - sorry.
Personally, I responded to Anakin's death scene by saying 'shit, I can't believe how graphic that was' and then a little laugh at the totally forced 'You're my brother I love you' because it was very, very good, but sadly nothing had happened previously to back it up, which made it feel like it was just chucked in there to mske you say 'oh, they're such good friends, how sad it came to this'.

Basically what I'm saying as this - a great scene, or even a number of great scenes, don't make a good film if the rest of the meterial isn'y up to par.

Anyway, whatever - I wasn't pulling a 'cheap joke'. AWK's post about crying really did make me lagh out loud. I jsut can't see how anyone bought Anakin's fall or his friendship with Obi-wan. Evidently some did, and I'm happy for them and wish I was one of them, but I'm not. The prequels done nothing for me.

War does not make one great.

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Originally posted by: Yoda Is Your Father

Anyway, whatever - I wasn't pulling a 'cheap joke'. AWK's post about crying really did make me lagh out loud. I jsut can't see how anyone bought Anakin's fall or his friendship with Obi-wan. Evidently some did, and I'm happy for them and wish I was one of them, but I'm not. The prequels done nothing for me.


It wasn't really the way in which it was pulled off by Hayden and Natalie that affected me, but more of what the point of those parts were. And the music helped a great deal to flesh out the meaning of the scenes. When I saw AOTC on May 16, 2002, I wasn't concerned about the acting, I was concerned about the story. And to me, AOTC delivered more than I had expected story-wise. Yeah, I know, that may sound odd to some, but that's how I've always felt about AOTC.
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Originally posted by: Yoda Is Your Father
Basically what I'm saying as this - a great scene, or even a number of great scenes, don't make a good film if the rest of the meterial isn'y up to par. Yes, that's one of the main gripes I have with the prequels - especially with ROTS. Lots of wasted potential.

Anyway, whatever - I wasn't pulling a 'cheap joke'. AWK's post about crying really did make me lagh out loud.
Well, even though your allergic reactions to AWK in other threads shed a different light on that "LOL!!!", I take your word for it. I'm just happy for every discussion that doesn't derail into a flamefest because of unnecessary misunderstandings.

I jsut can't see how anyone bought Anakin's fall or his friendship with Obi-wan. Evidently some did, and I'm happy for them and wish I was one of them, but I'm not. The prequels done nothing for me.
I can partially relate to that. I expected much more from George Lucas and I am still convinced that he would have been capable to deliver a much better 'product'.

It may be sad, but the original trilogy may have gotten as good as it is, because the actors and production teams didn't take George Lucas and the whole StarWars thing all too serious. "Fear will keep the local production teams in line. Fear of this multimillion dollar franchise." "The more you tighten your grip, the more creativity will slip through your fingers..."
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Originally posted by: Yoda Is Your Father
Anyway, whatever - I wasn't pulling a 'cheap joke'. AWK's post about crying really did make me lagh out loud. I jsut can't see how anyone bought Anakin's fall or his friendship with Obi-wan. Evidently some did, and I'm happy for them and wish I was one of them, but I'm not. The prequels done nothing for me.


Well, I didn't cry when I watched it in the theater, although the Order 66-scene was quite gut-wrenching. However, when I watched it for the first time after getting the DVD, I did shed a single tear. Perhaps it was a combination of the scene and my frustrations over the fact that my DVD player sucked and that I had to watch it on my laptop. Who knows? But fact is, GL is now responsible for two of my movie-crying moments (the other one is Vader's death in ROTJ). The man does have a certain amount of talent if he can attach me enough to his characters to make me cry when they die.
"The things that stick in my mind and make me laugh were, like, memos worried about whether or not the Wookie should have pants. They're looking at this thing and saying, "Couldn't he have some lederhosen?" This is great. Of all the things to worry about, the Wookie has no pants." -Mark Hamill
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Originally posted by: Adamwankenobi

It wasn't really the way in which it was pulled off by Hayden and Natalie that affected me, but more of what the point of those parts were. And the music helped a great deal to flesh out the meaning of the scenes. When I saw AOTC on May 16, 2002, I wasn't concerned about the acting, I was concerned about the story. And to me, AOTC delivered more than I had expected story-wise. Yeah, I know, that may sound odd to some, but that's how I've always felt about AOTC.


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I don't begrudge anyone for crying at the end of ROTS, cause the way ROTS plays out, we should cry, it is just sad that more of us didn't cry. (No Pun Intended) I put the blame on Lucas for that one, cause those characters didn't grip us enough to care in the end. I'm sure many SW fans cried and thought it was a tragic scene, and probably many just sat there and said to Anakin and Padme as they met their fates, "See ya, wouldn't wanna be ya!"

In the end, everyone likes different movies for different reasons, so laughing at someone for crying at a certain scene is pointless, but the fact that we are all SW fans, and alot of us didn't care about the PT characters really shows how Lucas really dropped the ball on this trilogy. He created such lovable characters in the OT, and for three movies you follow them, and that was the glue to the OT, the effects, the action, and the mythology were just gravy.

But for the PT, you have 2 movies of Hayden, 1 movie of Jake, 2 movies of McGregor as the main character and 1 as a minor character, 1 movie of Neeson, the only one who truly had a major role in all 3 movies is Portman, and when she dies, not many here really cared? It is another PT problem where everything is all over the place. If Lucas gave us 3 solid movies of Portman, McGregor, and Christenson as the leads in each movie, just like Ford, Fisher, and Hammill, they may have not been loved as much as the OT characters, but I guarantee it would have worked a hell of alot better than we feel now.
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The only person I cared about was Obi-Wan. That was it. And a tear did roll down my cheek the first time I saw ROTS

reason #1 - I knew that this was the ONLY time in my life that I would cry at that scene, so I just said "To hell with it, I'll let myself cry, because Lord knows I'll be walking out of this theater pissed."

reason #2 - Obi-Wan's dialogue. His words were what made me sad. Not seeing Anakin burst into flames (I was more like, "oh, so that is how he got all scarred. Makes sense."

I couldn't care less about Anakin. I really couldn't. Most of the time, I just wanted to kick him. Obi-Wan was the only, ONLY rediemable character. He is the only freakin' character I gave a flying rat's ass about.

The rest of the PT cast...*shrug* Who were they again?

In the words of my father when he saw the movie, "In 1977, Star Wars was a jaw dropping movie that left me stunned. This time, I just kept looking at my watch wondering when it was going to be over."
"I am altering the movies. Pray I don't alter them any further." -Darth Lucas
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Yeah, you're right about the cast. I think the main problem is that it must be terribly difficult to run around on a green soundstage and imagine you're on a dangerous lava planet. Ewan is a kick-ass actor - not only is he believable as a younger Alec Guiness, but he's also one of the few actors in the PT that interacts with the CG enviroment in a way that makes it real. Hayden was better in ROTS than he was in AOTC, but still not on par with Mark Hammill. I blame Lucas' direction - Hayden was told to always have a dark undercurrant. That made him seem like an angry teenager with identity problems rather than the good friend Obi-Wan was talking about in ANH. However, I've yet to watch Clone Wars. Are they closer to being friends there?
"The things that stick in my mind and make me laugh were, like, memos worried about whether or not the Wookie should have pants. They're looking at this thing and saying, "Couldn't he have some lederhosen?" This is great. Of all the things to worry about, the Wookie has no pants." -Mark Hamill
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Originally posted by: olzen
However, I've yet to watch Clone Wars. Are they closer to being friends there?


Yeah. You should probably read Labyrinth of Evil or watch the Clone Wars series. In both, their relationship is portrayed in an OT-esque kind of way.
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Originally posted by: Adamwankenobi
Originally posted by: olzen
However, I've yet to watch Clone Wars. Are they closer to being friends there?


Yeah. You should probably read Labyrinth of Evil or watch the Clone Wars series. In both, their relationship is portrayed in an OT-esque kind of way.



It's a shame that we have to read 2 or 3 books and rent additional video footage from blockbuster to understand their relationship, when it should have been obvious from the movies themselves.
"I am altering the movies. Pray I don't alter them any further." -Darth Lucas
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Well, it is like it is, and that book and show are very entertaining. Just making a suggestion.
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i just wonder why lucas felt they had to be sniping all the time at each other in the first place