Sign In

I THINK I FIGURED IT OUT — Page 3

Author
Time
Quote

Originally posted by: Luke Skywalker
.

however what im saying is... it would have been easier to make the prequel trilogy tie in with the OT rather than the other way around... dont you think?
i mean now he's going back and replacing things that he could have just done in the PT to begin with...


I agree completely. here are some more plot holes:

1 when the Jedi counsel at first decide not to train Anakin. They say he is too old. Yoda trained a much older Luke with relative ease.

2 At the end of the TPM the Jed cousel change their minds and decide to train Anakin. No reason is given for this change of heart.

3 the Jedi counsel decide Obiwan should train Anakin. Does this make any sense? You're sooo afraid that Anakin will turn to the Dark Side that at first you decide not to have him trained then you change your mind and decide to have him trained by someone who just became a Jedi Knight himself and has zero experience at training Jedi. There was no other experienced Jedi Master available to train him. What was Yoda doing? I know at the end he was still against Anakin being trained. But surely someone as intelligent as Yoda would be able to reason that since Anakin is going to be trained he at least should be trained by an experienced Jedi Master and not a rookie.

4 the Jedi can't realise the Senator Palpatine is Darth Sidious. In ANH when Darth Vader was chasing Luke in his fighter he realizes that "the force is strong with this one". You're going to tell me that the whole Jedi councel while standing next to Senator Palpatine can't realize that the dark side of the force is strong with him. come on!

5 Why did Darth Didious send Darth Maul to attack the Queen on Tat? If the Queen had been killed she would not have been able to go to Coruscant to declare a vote of no confidence in the President.

6 What kind of Senate has the leaders of worlds declaring votes of no confidence on the senate floor? Its the Senate! isn't that the job of senators?

I could go on but that is all I have the time for now.


E!-A!-G!-L!-E!-S! EAGLES!!!
SUPERBOWL LII CHAMPS!!!

Author
Time
I'm too lazy to read anything else but the first two thingies in Warbler's post, but I will add my two cents worth to this thread.

Quote

1 when the Jedi counsel at first decide not to train Anakin. They say he is too old. Yoda trained a much older Luke with relative ease.

Ok, Luke was the only hope Yoda had. What harm could it do to attempt to aid the Rebellion, even w/ the risk of having him go to the dark side. The rebels didn't have a chance neway.
I just hate stupid people.

GO JETS!!!!

Petition signer # 34,865
Author
Time
the only argument that they kinda explain is this one...

Quote

4 the Jedi can't realise the Senator Palpatine is Darth Sidious. In ANH when Darth Vader was chasing Luke in his fighter he realizes that "the force is strong with this one". You're going to tell me that the whole Jedi councel while standing next to Senator Palpatine can't realize that the dark side of the force is strong with him. come on!


they say the Dark Side has clouded their ability to use the force...

however i agree that the Jedi were pretty stupid in letting Obi Wan (fairly new to the whole jedi order) train Anakin as a Jedi...
cant the Jedi Council force Obi Wan not too...
i mean the prequels really ruin Yoda's whole character...
it makes him seem so weak.....
"Never. I'll never turn to the darkside. You've failed your highness. I am a jedi, like my father before me."
Author
Time
I think it would have made more sense to have still have Yoda and the councel deny permission to train Anakin and have Obiwan decide to train Anakin in secret. That would work much better with what OBiwan said in ROTJ "I took it apon myself to train him as a Jedi. I thought I could I train jedis just as well as Yoda could. I was wrong."

here is another thing that has always bothered me. In ESB Obi says that Yoda was " The jedi master who instucted me ". In TPM we find out it was really Quigon who trained Obiwan. I guess Lucas will have reedit the ESB so it fits his "original vision" right.


E!-A!-G!-L!-E!-S! EAGLES!!!
SUPERBOWL LII CHAMPS!!!

Author
Time
ok to answer a couple of them.

Quote

2 At the end of the TPM the Jed cousel change their minds and decide to train Anakin. No reason is given for this change of heart.

ok i realize that this is not told but this is probably the reason. the jedi knwe the sith existed they found out when maul died. since anakin had bee discovered the sith would know about him already, so they may have wanted to keep him close i think that they were afraid that the new sith master would search out anakin if they sent him back to tatooien. now a dark anakin from the begining would have been worst then the anakin we have now. I do not know why yoda didnt train anakin?


Quote

5 Why did Darth Didious send Darth Maul to attack the Queen on Tat? If the Queen had been killed she would not have been able to go to Coruscant to declare a vote of no confidence in the President.

maul was not sent to kill her, he was sent to capture her.

Quote

6 What kind of Senate has the leaders of worlds declaring votes of no confidence on the senate floor? Its the Senate! isn't that the job of senators?

what kind of senate, well the SW senate does. that is not a plot hole warbler, jsut complaining. policticals systems are different everywhere you go. the canadian senate is much different then the US senate.
Author
Time
Quote

Originally posted by: Shimraa
ok to answer a couple of them.

Quote

2 At the end of the TPM the Jed cousel change their minds and decide to train Anakin. No reason is given for this change of heart.

ok i realize that this is not told but this is probably the reason. the jedi knwe the sith existed they found out when maul died. since anakin had bee discovered the sith would know about him already, so they may have wanted to keep him close i think that they were afraid that the new sith master would search out anakin if they sent him back to tatooien. now a dark anakin from the begining would have been worst then the anakin we have now. I do not know why yoda didnt train anakin?


Quote

5 Why did Darth Didious send Darth Maul to attack the Queen on Tat? If the Queen had been killed she would not have been able to go to Coruscant to declare a vote of no confidence in the President.

maul was not sent to kill her, he was sent to capture her.

Quote

6 What kind of Senate has the leaders of worlds declaring votes of no confidence on the senate floor? Its the Senate! isn't that the job of senators?

what kind of senate, well the SW senate does. that is not a plot hole warbler, jsut complaining. policticals systems are different everywhere you go. the canadian senate is much different then the US senate.



Quote

here is another thing that has always bothered me. In ESB Obi says that Yoda was " The jedi master who instucted me ". In TPM we find out it was really Quigon who trained Obiwan. I guess Lucas will have reedit the ESB so it fits his "original vision" right.

yodda teachs all the padawans, remeber in AOTCs you see him with the class. and we know that yoda trained obiwan for awhile cus in TPM he says yoda always told me to be mindfull of my thoughts. suggesting tutorage.
Author
Time
Quote

Originally posted by: Shimraa

maul was not sent to kill her, he was sent to capture her.



but why do that? She was going to Coruscant anyway. Isn't that exactly what Palpatine wanted?

Quote

Originally posted by: Shimraa

what kind of senate, well the SW senate does. that is not a plot hole warbler, jsut complaining. policticals systems are different everywhere you go. the canadian senate is much different then the US senate.


yeah, now that I thought it over, I must agree with you.

Quote

Originally posted by: Shimraa
o
yodda teachs all the padawans, remeber in AOTCs you see him with the class. and we know that yoda trained obiwan for awhile cus in TPM he says yoda always told me to be mindfull of my thoughts. suggesting tutorage.


could be.......just one problem in ESB Obiwan says "The Jedi Master who instructed me" he didn't say "one of the Jedi Masters who instructed me" he said "THE Jedi Master who instructed me" implying that Yoda is the one and only Jedi Master who trained him.


E!-A!-G!-L!-E!-S! EAGLES!!!
SUPERBOWL LII CHAMPS!!!

Author
Time
" ....just one problem in ESB Obiwan says "The Jedi Master who instructed me" he didn't say "one of the Jedi Masters who instructed me" he said "THE Jedi Master who instructed me" implying that Yoda is the one and only Jedi Master who trained him. "

Perhaps Qui Gonn wasn't considered to be a Jedi Master? just a Jedi Knight?
Author
Time
Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4 the Jedi can't realise the Senator Palpatine is Darth Sidious. In ANH when Darth Vader was chasing Luke in his fighter he realizes that "the force is strong with this one". You're going to tell me that the whole Jedi councel while standing next to Senator Palpatine can't realize that the dark side of the force is strong with him. come on!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've been thinking about this one, and I've come up with a bit of a theory,
What if in fact Palpatine was actually a clone of Darth Sidious (created without force powers, to be the 'public face') of Darth Sidious, that way Palpatine assisted by Sidious could rise in power in the senate without being detected by the jedi,

this could lead credence to the connection between the link between Sifo Diyas and Darth Sidious (the names being so similar as to also be an anagram of themselves .

In AOTC it is known that (according to the Caminoan's ) Jedi Master Sifo Dias ordered the creation of a clone army 10 years beforehand (probably based on the disastrous performance by the battle droids in the battle of Naboo) which coincidentally happened around the same time. so we've established a link between Sifo Dias having contact with the Caminoan's and their cloning technology.

secondly when Obi Wan is relaying this information to Yoda in AOTC, although the details are sketchy
Obi wan seems to vaguely remember that Master Sifo Dias was killed earlier than the Caminoans claim, obviously before Obi-wans time.

Now what if this Jedi Master Sifo Dias was once a high ranked member of the Jedi Council about ten or more years before The Phantom Menace, and in a similar way that Anakin Skywalker died and became Vader, Sifo Dias (believed dead) turned to the darkside , ( one of the 'Lost Twenty Jedi' referred to in some cut scenes involving the Jedi Librarian and Obi Wan from AOTC, this way Sifo Dias could have easily removed all record of Camino's Existance from the Jedi Archives.

so Sifo Dias/Darth Sidious gets a clone of himself (Palpatine) and after a bit of rapid growth acceleration Palpatine is somehow placed on the start of his political career, with Darth Sidious (and his apprentice Dath Maul) manipulating events in the background to accelerate Palpatines Rise to power. Palpatine becomes supreme chancellor at the end of TPM.

Happy with the work of his clone, Darth Sidious/ Sifo Dias orders the caminoans to create an army of clones knowing that the first 200,000 soldiers will take ten years to be ready, another million troops ready for battle five years later,

At the same time he manages to lure a disenchanted Count Dooku away from the Jedi order and over to the dark side as his new apprentice, he keeps Dooku in the dark about Palpatines true identity and the existense of the clone armies, and orders Dooku to take charge of the separatist's forces and raise an army to threaten the public, and the clone wars begin!!

now at some stage of the Clone wars the tide is gonna change against the Jedi and the clones will be forced to turn against their Jedi counterparts, so what if the second larger batch of 1 million clones are
programmed to fight against the jedi and the original wave of clones (thus giving us true Clone wars!)
In the confusion that follows the Seperatists reach a treaty with the republic forces (thanks to Palpatine) and the Jedi become the enemy and are hunted to extinction, and Darth Sidious does the old Switcheroo with Palpatine his clone, and becomes the Emperor.

it's just a theory and probably proves I have way too much spare time on my hands. but Hey, it made sense to me at the time!
Author
Time
lol

its a great theory buddy & 1 that i have spent a long time discussing with my RL friends (since Ep2 came out) unfortunately.....1 problem

if Sifo Dyas WAS Palpatine.....surely the surving Jedi Council might notice a slight similarity between this supposed Dead jedi & the now leader of the Republic
Evil dude: "You do not no pain, you do not know fear. You will taste MAN FLESH"

Evil ugly dudes: "YIPPEEEEEEEEE!!!!"
Author
Time
good point, and just when i thought i might have worked it out DOH!

it would of course depend on how far back he dissapeared, and who was still on the Jedi council from back then, it might explain why Yoda is so distrustful of Palpatine, perhaps Sifo Dias was a lot older than his clone and more resembled the Emperor as he appears in ROTJ?

I guess we won't know until next May, but I still think I'm on the right track,

As there hasn't been any major revelations in this new trilogy to match the magnitude of Vader being Luke as well as Leia's father , I'm beginning to think that Darth Sidious's Identity may turn out to be a big surpise to everyone, the sidious/palpatine connection might just be a little too obvious to be true.
Author
Time
but we all know that Senator Palpatine becomes Emperor Palpatine. And its pretty obvious that the same actor is playing both Senator Palpatine and Darth Sidious.


E!-A!-G!-L!-E!-S! EAGLES!!!
SUPERBOWL LII CHAMPS!!!

Author
Time
I wasn't for a moment suggesting they weren't the same person (or at least a clone of the same person) . I'm just speculating on how Palpatine may have been able to hide his powers from the Jedi for so long, and how he has been able to train two sith apprentices on Coruscant whilst holding on to a very public position in office, and how has managed to keep his true identity hidden from Count Dooku his own apprentice? ,and I think there may be a little more to Darth Sidious' identity than just Palpatine in a dark hood.

and considering we are yet to have any groundbreaking surprises revealed in the trilogy, this may be it, It's not uncommon for a character to use a decoy in this trilogy Padme/Amidala has been using her handmaidens as decoys on many occasions
Author
Time
yeah buddy as i was saying I've often thought along those lines until the problem with Sifo Dyas only dying 10 years before aOTC (so just after or before TPM) the Jedi Council is pretty much the same (a few differences but nothing life threatening) in TPM as it is in AOTC so I kinda ruled that out.

the one plot revelation I had been toying with is a much larger grander aspect of who Palpatine really is but rather..........

Could he be Anakins father? Could that be the surprise revelation? Could the whole creation of Anakin been part of Sidious's master plan to take over the Galaxy & turn the republic into the evil Galactic Empire with him at the head & Vader by his side?
Evil dude: "You do not no pain, you do not know fear. You will taste MAN FLESH"

Evil ugly dudes: "YIPPEEEEEEEEE!!!!"
Author
Time
die-jarjar-die - your idea certainly fits in with GL's liking for symmetry, and could well be the big surprise for the coming film...
originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here?
And say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

Author
Time
interesting djjd.
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent."
Qui-Gon Jinn (R.I.P.)
Author
Time
Palpatine being Vaders father? I really hope George doesn't go there, it's just too cheesey for words, although I wouldn't put it past him.

Does this mean he'd have to alter Return of the Jedi yet again, just imagine Vader saying to Luke "I am your father!" and then the Emperor adding "and I'm your Grandfather!.... now quickly , Kill your father (i.e. my son) and take your rightful place by your Gran-daddy's side!

Does this also mean that in 20 years time we'll get to see Palpatine as a young boy, romancing a young Schmi, going into politics and turning Evil in the Prequal-Prequal Trilogy , please say it ain't so!!!!!

and maybe we find out that Palpatine built R2-D2?
Author
Time
But wasn't Anakin conceived by the Force itself ("There was no father" - TPM) ?

I hope GL doesn't go for any big shock moments in ROTS. I don't think I could bear the OT being undermined once and for all.

Creator of Star Wars Begins, Building Empire and Returning to Jedi
Follow me on twitter @jamieSWB. Please support me at - http://www.patreon.com/jamiebenning/

Author
Time
Quote

Originally posted by: Jambe Davdar
But wasn't Anakin conceived by the Force itself ("There was no father" - TPM) ?



From a certain point of view...

(Paply got Schmi drunk, had his way - she refuses to acknowledge the event and refuses him access to the kid - this sends him a little overboard and he unhatches a fiendish plot to get to know his son)

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here?
And say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

Author
Time
Quote

Originally posted by: oojason
Quote

Originally posted by: Jambe Davdar
But wasn't Anakin conceived by the Force itself ("There was no father" - TPM) ?



From a certain point of view...

(Paply got Schmi drunk, had his way - she refuses to acknowledge the event and refuses him access to the kid - this sends him a little overboard and he unhatches a fiendish plot to get to know his son)


Jamieiso - Falls off his chair and screams (silently)!!!

Creator of Star Wars Begins, Building Empire and Returning to Jedi
Follow me on twitter @jamieSWB. Please support me at - http://www.patreon.com/jamiebenning/

Author
Time
well I think GL has shown that some things in the SW saga are true "from a certain point of veiw"

To elaborate on my outlandish (& i too hope GL doesnt go there, it was just one of those random thoughts you have at work & then discuss) concept:

What if Palpatine KNEW the prophecy?

We know Palpy is immensly strong in the Dark side of the Force, so in laymans terms he has Force ability (im not getting into the light versus dark im basically suggesting that having Force powers is enough).

Now if he knows the Prophecy of the one Jedi (I'm assuming we're meant to assume that the Prophecy is that one Jedi will eradicate the Sith once & for all), whats to stop him from bastardising (for want of a better word) this myth by ensuring that the Prophecy is fulfilled, from a certain point of view. I'm not suggesting that Anakin is a clone of Palpatine or anything BUT in our own society the ability is there to produce an embryo outside of the womb & then impregnate the foetus inside the mother-to-be at a later date. Perhaps Anakins "immaculate conception" could have followed a similar line?

In ROTJ Palpatine says on a couple of occasions "Everything is proceeding as I have forseen".

It is this line in particular that I have based my argument around. What if Palpy had forseen the coming of Anakin so many years before TPM & that upon discovery by the Jedi, Anakin would be seen as the Jedi's greatest hope against the Sith.

Instead of growing powerful in the light side of the Force, Anakin would already be tainted with the Dark Side (hence Yoda's apprehension) & his downfall wouldn't be so tragic, but a forgone conclusion.

The Jedi would be destroyed by the very individual that had been sent to save them (a perversion on the Saviour theme, very Sith ) & all of these events would have occured as Palpatine had forseen.

This would then link in well with Palpatine's failure to fully forsee his own fate at the hands of Vader & the link that existed between Father & Son, the sons love & pity for his Father, returning Anakin from the Dark side & allowing Anakin to fulfill the Prophecy & become the Chosen One.

Ok so thats quite out there I didnt mean to suggest that Palpatine would be Father in the clinical sense of the word but in a more abstract sense I guess. Ok feel free to shoot me down but my theory does fit in with the recurring themes & motifs that Lucas likes to use & does incorporate the themes of religion that Lucas also likes to slip in there........................
Evil dude: "You do not no pain, you do not know fear. You will taste MAN FLESH"

Evil ugly dudes: "YIPPEEEEEEEEE!!!!"