How would you handle the transition from Republic to Empire?

I've always felt that ROTS's changing of the Galactic Republic into the Galactic Empire always felt too much like flipping a light switch. Sure there was political build-up, but on the whole I thought the events felt too forced and sudden.

Personally, my prequel re-write has the Republic dissolve several years before the formation of the Empire. After a clone fleet surprises Coruscant by bombarding the seat of government with orbital fire, the Republic fractures into my disorganized warlord factions.

Ostensibly the Republic remnant factions are allied with each other, but they have little trust for each other. For much of the Clone Wars, the clones rule the galaxy. It is only when the strong-man political leader and military officer Admiral Palpatine steps into the forefront that this rabble of fleets and armies is united into a galaxy-spanning Empire.

McFlabbergasty said:

I've always felt that ROTS's changing of the Galactic Republic into the Galactic Empire always felt too much like flipping a light switch. Sure there was political build-up, but on the whole I thought the events felt too forced and sudden.

Personally, my prequel re-write has the Republic dissolve several years before the formation of the Empire. After a clone fleet surprises Coruscant by bombarding the seat of government with orbital fire, the Republic fractures into my disorganized warlord factions.

Ostensibly the Republic remnant factions are allied with each other, but they have little trust for each other. For much of the Clone Wars, the clones rule the galaxy. It is only when the strong-man political leader and military officer Admiral Palpatine steps into the forefront that this rabble of fleets and armies is united into a galaxy-spanning Empire.

danaan said:

 

 I feel that the theme of "the path from democracy to dictatorship" is a very appealing one, and telling the story of how Palpatine went from Senator to Dictator is one that fits the fall of Anakin Skywalker very well, as a parallell. It's one I'd like to see told. So, my problem with the official version was the execution, rather than the theme.

I think the key to doing this is to take care and build a plausible political setting, which Lucas did not do. In other words, the Republic and the Senate need to function in a convincing fashion.

 

I think the main problem with Lucas' execution of the Republic's political unraveling was two-fold: 1) We never see how Palpatine's rule affected the common man on the street and 2) There was too much kriffing C-SPAN going on.

I tried to derive my version of pre-Empire events from interpreting what certain characters in the OT said about the time period. These are some assertions I gathered from all OT exposition of pre-Empire times...

1) Before "the dark times", Jedi Knights acted as galactic justice-keepers. It is never made clear how many Jedi Knights existed, but it is assumed to be more than the three Jedi seen in the OT (two if you don't bother to count Yoda). A traitorous apprentice of Kenobi's named Darth Vader helped the Empire eliminate all known Jedi Knights.

2) There is no mention of anything called a "Sith". I intend to keep it that way for my prequel re-write.

3) Lightsabers were weapons used by Jedi Knights in "more civilized times". They are, however, not the only weapon used by Jedi. Yoda and Vader are both shown to be gifted in telekinesis, and Palpatine can generate an arc lightning attack. 

4) Obi-Wan fought in the Clone Wars in the capacity of a Jedi Knight, alongside Luke's father. No-one in the trilogy ever says the Jedi held military leadership positions in the Clone Wars.

5) Owen did not hold to Luke's father's ideals, and believed he "should not have gotten involved". The exact meaning of this statement is rather murky, which means it's perfect material for exploration in a PT remake.

6) At no point in the OT is it said that the fall of the Republic coincided with the rise of the Empire.

7) Anakin was a gifted pilot and warrior. 

8) At an early point in her life, Leia saw her mother as "beautiful, but sad".

9) The Jedi named Anakin Skywalker gained a hatred for the Knights and resolved to hunt them down and kill all of them. Three more connected events happened in an unspecified order: 1) He fathered Luke and Leia, 2) The Empire was created, and 3) Anakin/Vader was burn and wounded to the point of relying on a bio-mechanical life-support suit; at least one of his arms is synthetic.

With all these assumptions being made, I devised a few constraints for a PT remake...

1) At the beginning of the Clone Wars, evil alien clones attack Coruscant and decapitate the Republic's leadership. This leads to a splintering effect that leaves the Republic in shambles and the clones in a position of supremacy across the galaxy. The war goes for four years before Palpatine reunites the factions and destroys the clones, but creating the Empire in the process.

2) The Jedi are far fewer in number than they were in Lucas' PT. I am thinking six or seven individuals at most. And not all of them use lightsabers.

3) Much of Episodes I and II is spent in the clone-dominated period  between the Republic's end and the Empire's beginning. Memories of this time is what leads to a xenophobic, militaristic mindset that allows the creation of an evil Empire.

4) Vader's red saber from the OT is used by a villain in this remake trilogy. The blade has a long and infamous history by the time it is vaporized in the second Death Star's explosion.

Point 4 is incorrect. Leia clearly addresses Obi-Wan as "General Kenobi", who "served her father" during the Clone Wars. Thus, 1) her father was obviously a real big shot, seeing as he was able to boss around a general, and 2) Kenobi held a very lofty rank within the same military organization her father did - probably the Republic.

Thanks, danaan. Pretty big oversight on my part. When Leia was talking about her father, was she referring to Bail Organa? It doesn't seem like she knew her father was Vader at that point.

McFlabbergasty said:

Thanks, danaan. Pretty big oversight on my part. When Leia was talking about her father, was she referring to Bail Organa? It doesn't seem like she knew her father was Vader at that point.

 

[quote=McFlabbergasty]

I think the main problem with Lucas' execution of the Republic's political unraveling was two-fold: 1) We never see how Palpatine's rule affected the common man on the street and 2) There was too much kriffing C-SPAN going on.

Trying to work the specifics out, but Palpatine and his rise in power are much more referred to and some hinted at at than making up a large portion of screen time. Its through some casual conversation, allusions, and often his scenes with Anakin that we get a real idea for what happened. 

Palpatine was a wealthy trade businessman/philanthropist who more or less was an initial non-entity in the Senate because he had no real allies or enemies. He got elected primarily because he had no contact with any of the squabbling factions in the Senate, and thus promised to be a Chancellor (President) free of the usual politics and bureaucracy, which had become a major problem with various former holders of the office resigning or serving only one term due to scandal or not being powerful enough against the factions.  

When the war is going badly, he nationalizes a select few of his former businesses (which include ships, weapons, and mercenaries, which earns some grumbling in the senate about conflicting interests and supposed corruption, but the citizens in the Republic are so desperate for some ground they fully agree to it. The nationalized businesses end up being crucial in the second film as part of a distraction of the Mandalorian coalition forces, while a select group of Jedi and Republic forces destroy their biggest clone facility. 

By the third film, Palpatine is openly beloved by many citizens for helping to save the Republic from invasion, with the cynical members of the senate figuring that he'll likely re-privatize his old companies with interest money from the war, and retire from public office even richer. Except pretty much no one realized the full scope of Palpatine's plans. It turns out that he had much more ownership of the nationalized companies than realized, and his continuing monetary influence spread so far wide across the armed forces during the war, that the vast majority are loyal largely to him and his agents rather than to the Senate.  

Palpatine makes a public address to the Republic that due to the fragility of the peace, the tragic loss of the Jedi due a Mandalorian (actually Palpatine aligned forces) sneak attack, and to avoid any potentially dangerous governmental lethargy during another possible invasion, he will remain Chancellor (President) for life. Across the Republic, this news plays to cheering crowds. In the crowded Senate hall, there is only dead silence as the full weight of his words sets in.  

In the second to last scene of the film (with Lars/Kenobi with Luke on Tatooine and Bail/Darelda on Alderaan with Leia following) Palpatine makes his formal address to the Senate, announcing that while he will remain in his position for life, he makes assurances that Republic will still thrive, the Senate will continue, and that the remaining criminals of the war (seemingly Mandalorians) will not go unpunished. While this speech goes on the audience sees various scenes: the creation of vast amounts of stormtrooper uniforms, various Jedi on scattered planets being hunted down, Anakin's placement in a suit, and a green laser being tested on a small asteroid with great success. Palpatine ends his speech with:

The rewards we have earned at this moment can not and will not be forgotten. Members of the senate, citizens across the galaxy, and soldiers of this great Republic, it is the ingenuity and sacrifice of so many that allows us to stand in a glorious era. It is a period of new peace, of new prosperity, and of new order... for all time.

After the debacle that was the Battle of Coruscant, the remnants of the Republic's military and citizenry separated themselves into two distinct groups: the "Alliance to Restore the Republic" and the "Galactic Empire".

Yes. The Rebels are in all six films. The Empire isn't seen until Episode II, though. It was formed some time between when the first film and the second film take place (25 BBY and 21 BBY, respectively).

For four fiery years these factions worked together to crush the clone menace, even while holding starkly-differing views on what the post-War galaxy should look like.

The Alliance wanted a constitutional, representative government composed of equal parts all known sentient species. The Empire demanded Human supremacy and loyalty to its supreme leader, Palpatine, above all else. 

How the Empire won, at least until the events of the OT, is one of the major stories I am trying to tell in my prequels.

McFlabbergasty said:

After the debacle that was the Battle of Coruscant, the remnants of the Republic's military and citizenry separated themselves into two distinct groups: the "Alliance to Restore the Republic" and the "Galactic Empire".

Yes. The Rebels are in all six films. The Empire isn't seen until Episode II, though. It was formed some time between when the first film and the second film take place (25 BBY and 21 BBY, respectively).

For four fiery years these factions worked together to crush the clone menace, even while holding starkly-differing views on what the post-War galaxy should look like.

The Alliance wanted a constitutional, representative government composed of equal parts all known sentient species. The Empire demanded Human supremacy and loyalty to its supreme leader, Palpatine, above all else. 

How the Empire won, at least until the events of the OT, is one of the major stories I am trying to tell in my prequels.

@danaan:

I envision the Battle of Coruscant as taking place near the beginning of Episode I. 

For a time after its first appearance in Episode II, the Empire works with the Alliance to defeat the clone menace.

There is a loose parallel to the cooperation between the Western Europeans and Americans with the Soviets in the fight against the Third Reich. Two ideologically contrasting entities in a temporary alliance against a more pressing threat (IRL the Nazis, in this series the clones)

In Episode III, the Clone Wars are over, but the Alliance has become a Rebel Alliance, due to the Empire having turned on its previous agreement and overtaken many of the Alliance's star systems.

Episode I is about surviving to fight the clones another day and taking the first steps towards being a Jedi Knight.

Episode II is about finding out who the real enemy is. I'm thinking of titling it in reference to a line delivered by McGuiness in ANH...Star Wars Episode II: The Dark Times Begin.

Episode III can be summarized perfectly by, "If you strike me down I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."

I'm aiming for a bittersweet ending, because the protagonist, Anakin's apprentice Ben, has to die for a cause that won't see victory for another twenty years. But the twins are safe and sound...

Out of remembrance, Obi-Wan adopts Ben's name as an alias during his exile on Tattooine.

I'm still skecthing mine out, but essentially it goes something like this.

In Episode 1, we see Palpatine behind a manufactured crisis, much like in the official canon. Only in my case it's a coup d'etat on Alderaan, which draws Bail Organa in and creates a scandal between isolationists and federalists in the Republic Senate. Palpatine can use this to get elected chancellor.

In Episode 2, the isolationists turn into the Separatists and attack the Republic, starting the Clone War (though it's not known by that name at the time). The Republic is under heavy assault, and has an outdated military organization. Bail Organa redesigns the organizational structure, replacing the old fractured one with something more centralized. As a result, the Republic lives to fight another day, and Palpatine can use the success to win a second term.

In Episode 3, the war has dragged on, scarring the Republic. Important resources are being rationed and there is increased xenophobia and suspicion, seeing as the Separatists and mostly non-humans. Martial law is instituted and the Chancellors office gets transformed into the office of the Emperor.

And that's the real conundrum for me. Why would he choose that name for the new offiice? As mentioned, the name "Empire" probably comes across as something negative. The administration will want people to think of the name as something positive. So, there must be something that makes Palpatine suggest changing the name from Chancellor to Emperor as a symbol of the good things to come. Not sure what that is yet.

----
Obi-Wan says he hasn't gone by the name of "Obi-Wan" since "oh, before you were born."

I definitely think showing an outright turn from Republic to Empire is excessive. Its why my current treatment just has Palpatine declaring himself Chancellor for life, and nothing else. The implication of what he's going to do, and how the institution was perverted and corrupted into despotism, works much better in the audience's imagination. then anything shown on screen. In ANH the size of the star destroyer, the stormtrooper's assault, the appearance of Vader; all of that completely tells you what's happened to the galaxy in the 20 years since, all without literally saying anything. Ideally the reaction of going from the third prequel to A New Hope should be one of shock and horror at how bad things have gotten, particularly when we see what happens to Beru and Owen. 

CWBorne said:

I definitely think showing an outright turn from Republic to Empire is excessive. Its why my current treatment just has Palpatine declaring himself Chancellor for life, and nothing else. The implication of what he's going to do, and how the institution was perverted and corrupted into despotism, works much better in the audience's imagination. then anything shown on screen. In ANH the size of the star destroyer, the stormtrooper's assault, the appearance of Vader; all of that completely tells you what's happened to the galaxy in the 20 years since, all without literally saying anything. Ideally the reaction of going from the third prequel to A New Hope should be one of shock and horror at how bad things have gotten, particularly when we see what happens to Beru and Owen. 

McFlabbergasty said:

Going by your interpretation, it seems Bail Organa inadvertently got the whole military-police-state ball rolling, but regretted that later seeing as he is Rebel-aligned in ANH. He was killed by the monster he helped create.


This adds an interesting layer of complexity to his character!

McFlabbergasty said:

By not showing *precisely* how everyone got to the physical locations they were in when we first saw them in the OT, I hope to avoid Lucas' mistake of treating the audience like a bunch of idiots.


Hell, I'm even thinking of scrapping Yoda's lone appearance and not showing Vader donning his black suit. Those kinds of scenes would serve no purpose in my treatment, other than pointless wanking.

danaan said:

 

Vader with some scars, and some machine-augmentations...

 

Has someone been playing Deus Ex lately? 
I certainly have.

But in all seriousness: that's a rather neat approach to the politics-centered transformation. It's starting to feel a bit more like a real social system. Not "oh look Ian MacDiarmid is suddenly more powerful than anybody in the Republic, what are we gonna do now".

Having Bail Organa play an important role makes it feel more like the Empire was a malevolent tumor that sprang forth when the conditions were just right for it to come into being, not a neatly baked cake with a nice, straightforward recipe courtesy of the Order of Sith Lords.

In my draft, I try to cut to the chase as quickly as possible. 

You want to see the end of the Old Republic? *kaboom* It's gone in Episode I.
You want clones? Episode I.
Palpatine and the Empire? Episode II.
Last-ditch effort to rescue the mother of the twins? That's the majority of Episode III's plot.

One of the main differences between this draft and all of my others is that the "Old Republic Era" hardly overlaps with the Clone Wars time period. Technically the Republic existed during the Clone Wars, but that was for literally one battle at the start of the war. After the clones destroyed the seat of government on Coruscant, the Republic, as one contiguous entity, was history.

McFlabbergasty, in terms of comparing all the various variations I've read of Episodes I-III I think it all comes down to the context and tone one is going for in their particular interpretation of the prequels. For yours, you're creating a larger war narrative, almost suggesting a cold war like tension between the Empire and Republic that falls apart once the external threat is gone. Indeed you get right to the punch as far as really shattering the old Republic and demonstrating both sides A bit like telling of how the Nationalists and Communists in China reluctantly aligned against the Japanese in the late 30s and early 40s only to eventually war with each other. Certain a fascinating concept and likely one worth telling. 

For me though, the whole series must be played as a grander tragedy. Not of Anakin Skywalker overtly (though he is symbolic of many elements), but of the Republic itself. I can't rush to civil war (or have a civil war at all) because mine is designed to demonstrate the Republic's legitimate strengths and virtues. The audience has to see and care about how good it was and be disheartened by it's slow degradation via war. Specifically a largely external war against an invading foe, a conflict that would seemingly distract so many from the growing problems in the Republic, yet ironically serve to exacerbate them. 

In my telling Palpatine can not and should not be a Machiavellian planner who manipulated the whole galaxy in order to rule it. It pushes him over the top and renders him a cartoonoish supervillain rather than a brilliant antagonist (yeah I know I'm basically talking about a despotic evil wizard here, but stay with me). The Empire and the Emperor's terror can better resonate with audiences if there's a degree of acknowledgement and fear that things like them can and have existed to us. 

The version of Star Wars I see in my stories suggests that Palpatine drafting a complex scheme to become Emperor, involving creating an entire intergalactic conflict and gaining greatly expanded powers seemingly overnight leaves him unreal and the forces of good as either ignorant or impotent.

Yet one who was simply cunning, seeing a contemporary conflict, and utilizing it to his advantage? One who rather than being intelligently proactive, is brilliantly reactive; turning so many incidents out of his initial control into advantages for himself whether its attacks on Coruscant or subtly influencing one troubled Jedi he had met? Terrifying, if for no other reason that it makes one realize that men like that, either in the Star Wars or in the real world don't need complicated plans; all that's necessary for them to flourish is things to go wrong, and that's a terror that resonates with anyone. 

Finally that whole matter points back to what I said about the the importance of tragedy as a major theme. Those in the Republic, whether citizens, many in the Senate, and the Jedi all did what they thought was right, saving the Republic from a dangerous invasion, only to realize too late that the worst danger came from within. All the decisions and acts done in order to defeat the enemy, to end the war as soon as possible, to bring peace the galaxy, yet so many of those would bring about doom for so much. That which served to save the Republic from conquest, would ultimately serve to damn it to tyranny, and that's something I just don't think a civil war story can as well as an external attack.

(Sorry about the length, I'm not always this long winded)  

As implied above, I think one important element here is to throw Palpatine some curve balls. He has plans, and, while he will come out victorious (obviously), even he needs to be foiled every once in a while. Through opposites doeth the path proceed. I'm thinking of tensions between him and Darth Vader's predecessor might be one good way to go, but also just having the Senate or others refuse his will here and there, just to show that his ambition does run into obstacles and barriers that he needs to overcome. This is something I'm thinking of particularly for Ep 2, where he has a much more central role to play, being the Chancellor.

So Palpatine's pre-Vader apprentice has a personality of his/her own? It sounds better than Lucas' tripe already.

My draft has the leader of the clones revealed to be a Jedi who turned against the order two years before the events of Episode I. On her way out, she fought Anakin and his apprentice. The two Jedi battled her with tenacity but ultimately the traitor bested them both by killing the apprentice and slicing off Anakin's hand.

Anakin's drive for vengeance is a key factor in his dark side conversion process. This dark Jedi becomes Anakin's white whale. But in killing his white whale, Anakin becomes the monster he tried to destroy. 

McFlabbergasty said:

So Palpatine's pre-Vader apprentice has a personality of his/her own? It sounds better than Lucas' tripe already.

danaan, I'm at the first scene of The Old Order; there's a nice Star Warsy, swashbuckling feel to it. 

Episode II is proving to be a real pain to write. It's the most complex of my three film ideas; as of now it contains Anakin's conversion, the rise of the Empire, the endgame of the Clone Wars, and some big character revelations that cast the OT in a different light.

I'm trying to mold Episode II in a manner similar to ESB: love story at the center of the plot, big reveal at the climax, the audience learns some new things about the Force, the protagonist desperately limps towards a cliffhanger ending...and the Empire plays Tom to the Alliance's Jerry.

Also: tonally speaking, the feeling for the end of the trilogy that I am going for can be aptly summarized by the section of the ESB finale track that runs from 00:59 to 02:23. In fact, it would be a dream come true if I could include that track in the final cut of the film!

McFlabbergasty said:

danaan, I'm at the first scene of The Old Order; there's a nice Star Warsy, swashbuckling feel to it. 

McFlabbergasty said:

Episode II is proving to be a real pain to write. It's the most complex of my three film ideas; as of now it contains Anakin's conversion, the rise of the Empire, the endgame of the Clone Wars, and some big character revelations that cast the OT in a different light.

I'm trying to mold Episode II in a manner similar to ESB: love story at the center of the plot, big reveal at the climax, the audience learns some new things about the Force, the protagonist desperately limps towards a cliffhanger ending...and the Empire plays Tom to the Alliance's Jerry.

Also: tonally speaking, the feeling for the end of the trilogy that I am going for can be aptly summarized by the section of the <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOOmeaNBPwI&feature=related" target="_self">ESB finale track</a> that runs from 00:59 to 02:23. In fact, it would be a dream come true if I could include that track in the final cut of the film!

"There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt." John Adams, 1826

Civilizations have historically fallen by the same formula: politicians and bankers conspire to form a central bank, which prints money and artificially expands the monetary supply. Politicians benefit from the arrangement, because they receive funds for their campaigns and the ability to distribute funds to their voting or any other favored constituency. The bankers benefit from the arrangement, because their counterfeiting scheme (the monetization of debt; a monopoly on money) is politically protected. The banks are thus permitted to make loans to domestic and foreign governments, collecting indefinite interest, because everyone (the bankers and politicians) knows these loans will never be repaid. Repaying means raising taxes, and politicians can only raise taxes so high before they're thrown out of office.

Inflation results as a consequence of monetary expansion. The more finite a material is, the more value it retains. Thus, value declines as the monetary supply expands. Therefore, inflation is nothing more the devaluation of the monetary unit. At this stage, the mother country enters an imperialistic phase, conquering other nations to transfer wealth back to the mother country and (temporarily) offset the devaluation of its currency.

So how does this apply to The Old Republic and the Clone Wars?

Bankers make loans to developing governments in the Mid Rim, knowing these loans will never be repaid and thus permitting bankers to collect indefinite interest. A form of perpetual slavery is created on these remote worlds... the governments can only raise taxes so high, so only the interest can be paid on these loans. And because the people are continually being taxed, money cannot be saved and invested in proper economic development. 

Eventually, the Mid Rim people wise up to governmental corruption and revolts begin. If these revolts prove successful, the bankers will lose their perpetual income when the Mid Rim territories declare bankruptcy, liquidate debt, and start a new. The bankers have all the motivation in the world to aid the foreign governments against the revolutionaries.

The bankers attack the situation two ways. The first plan involves lending money to more of the Mid Rim governments, only for the purpose of creating clone armies. As a condition of the loan, the clone armies must invade the Mid Rim planets in revolt and establish a military occupation. The establishment of military bases guarantees interest payments for the bankers and a continuation of their fiscal scheme. 

The bankers' second plan is to infiltrate the government of the Old Republic by funding corrupt political candidates. After obtaining office, these candidates approve various and incremental policies of foreign aggression and domestic protectionism. As the Republic grows corrupt, the Jedi condemn military intervention - an act of aggression born from fear and anger - and refuse to participate. Many Jedi colonize new worlds, which are meant to exemplify civilization and productivity. They are to be a stark contrast to the corrupting influences that have seized the Republic. Hopefully, other Republic worlds will grow to mimic the Jedi colonies. 

As the first imperial wars erupt, other solar systems want clone armies for their own protection. An arms race begins where the armies tend to be used for foreign aggression as opposed to domestic defense. 

While numerous solar systems within the Republic have nullified attempts to raise a clone army, they have failed to prevent the bankers from controlling the monetary supply. Such control has led not only to the Clone Wars, but to monetary devaluation in the Republic. Governments are in extreme debt.

When the bankers succeed in creating a central bank for the Republic, under the guise of banking reform, numerous planets secede from the Republic, threatened by perpetual debt. The hope is to decentralize the federal government and restore local autonomy, which has gradually been eroded by the centralist bankers and politicians. The bankers and politicians, hoping to retain power, claim false charges against the secessionists - that clones have infiltrated the secessionist governments and are trying to destroy the Republic. At this point, the Republic is a euphemism for the Galactic Empire.