How would YOU re-do the prequels? — Page 4

I would have changed EVERYTHING. First off, I would have made Anakin and Obi-Wan be about the same age, since Sebastian Shaw and Alec Guinness were around the same age, as well. I would have put the Clone Wars as ending much earlier - old EU sources established the Clone Wars ending 35 years before ANH - plenty of time for the Jedi to fall into myth.

The Clone Wars themselves I would change. When I was younger, I always assumed that the Clone Wars were fought over the sensitive issue of cloning, while the Thrawn Trilogy by Timothy Zahn suggested that the clones were an outside menace that the Republic and the Jedi fought against. Also, the Mandalorians were established as the "bad guys" in the Clone Wars as well, in early EU material (and in the ESB novelization). The Republic doesn't need a clone army...just recruit like ten guys from each of the 1 million planets in the Republic and whammo, you've instantly got 10 million soldiers. It would be easy to make an even bigger army the same way, almost instantly.

And I would most CERTAINLY get rid of the "Boba Fett is a clone" thing. Of all the stupid shit from the prequels, that was the most offensive thing to me, especially since Fett's backstory in "The Last One Standing" was so f*cking cool.

As for the storyline itself...when you watch ANH, when Obi-Wan talks about the past you get the feeling he found a young MAN named Anakin during his adventures in the Clone Wars. Who knows what brought Kenobi to Tatooine, but that's where he would have met Anakin. Maybe Anakin really DID do work as a navigator on a spice freighter originally, but he obviously lived on Tatooine and was a great pilot.

Maybe Obi-Wan met Anakin at the Mos Eisley cantina - how else would Kenobi know that the cantina is a great place to find talented pilots?

Befriending Anakin, he fills his head with tales of glory, and war, and the wonder of the Force, all of which eclipsed the monotony of his safe, boring little life. Against the wishes of his brother, Owen, Anakin leaves the family farm and all of its mundane responsibilities to fight in the Clone Wars, "on some damn fool idealistic crusade" and hopefully return as a Jedi.

But he never does return. Instead, Obi-Wan comes back with a baby, a tragic story and an empty apology. The baby being all that's left of his brother, Owen raises him, hoping never to send him along to share his father's fate.

When Obi-Wan returns, lightsaber in hand, to "Begin the young lad's training" Owen realizes the old wizard thinks himself a warrior and exile, and views the child as a weapon he's forging for a future continued battle.

Dead set against continuing this cycle of exploitation, Owen banishes Ben from his home. But the old man waits, knowing the call to action will come.

Promus said:

 I would have put the Clone Wars as ending much earlier - old EU sources established the Clone Wars ending 35 years before ANH - plenty of time for the Jedi to fall into myth.

1st- welcome to the sub forum.  You sound like you have a good head on your shoulders and it's always fun to see some new ideas.

2nd- on the timeline... I used to fancy a different timeline than what I'm working with now- and it's because it was full of inconsistencies that I just hadn't realized yet.  I wanted my PT to be 30-35 years prior to the OT, not 15-20.  However, I realized that Luke and Leia are no more than 18 in ANH, which means they were conceived (assuming human reproduction) no more than 19 years before ANH.  I assume Anakin sired the twins before turning to the Dark Side...  So this means his turn is within 19 years of ANH.  Depending on how your clone wars story related to Anakin's turn... you may have a math problem on your hands.

One solution that was borne on these boards, I believe, was the "multiple clone wars" thing.  That way, the plural of "war" makes more sense (though this is not required) but it also allows you to create a more epic scope of the wars in general and if you show the last clone war, you can imply whatever you want about the previous ones.

Thanks for the welcome! :)

Yeah, the timeline thing is tricky, but it apparently didn't really bother people in the past, before AOTC came out. I'm not really on board with the whole "multiple Clone Wars" thing, because the Clone Wars and the rise of the Empire don't have to be the same event, or directly related. I can accept that there was the Clone Wars, which was fought during the waning glory days of the Old Republic, and afterwards came some other stuff that caused the downfall of the Jedi and the establishment of the Empire.

OR...and I just thought of this now...the Empire COULD rise directly out of the Clone Wars, and the Empire could declare the Jedi as enemies of the state (either publicly or in secret). Now, it would take a long time to kill everyone involved in an order like the Jedi (especially with a lack of "Order 66" nonsense), which would give the Jedi enough time to form their own resistance or underground. Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Anakin's wife would be part of this underground - Anakin being one of the Jedi, of course, and Anakin's wife being a sympathizer. This underground could also be the start of the Rebellion, which would explain why the Rebellion always seemed more "religious" (saying "May the Force be with you" to its pilots, in an era when most people seemed to think the Force was "just a bunch of simple tricks and nonsense"). Eventually, the Empire has been around for a while, the majority of the galaxy doesn't believe in the Force due to the Emperor's influence (he seemed paranoid in ESB about another Force user rising up to destroy him, so if nobody believed in the Force, they wouldn't train themselves in it...which is why I think he wanted people to think the Force was just a myth).

Anakin, for some reason or another, is "seduced" (NOT tricked) by the Dark Side and betrays his fellow Jedi (at around 19 BBY). Obi-Wan goes to take him out himself, in order to stop Anakin from destroying their entire underground, and of course he is only partially successful.

What do you think of that idea? I'd also like to hear yours! :)

Promus said:

Thanks for the welcome! :)

Yeah, the timeline thing is tricky, but it apparently didn't really bother people in the past, before AOTC came out. I'm not really on board with the whole "multiple Clone Wars" thing, because the Clone Wars and the rise of the Empire don't have to be the same event, or directly related. I can accept that there was the Clone Wars, which was fought during the waning glory days of the Old Republic, and afterwards came some other stuff that caused the downfall of the Jedi and the establishment of the Empire.

It's all down to how well your ideas are executed, but I think it's a bit of a mistep to ignore the Clone Wars expectation for the PT.  Perhaps you're saying that the Empire will rise sometime "in the gap" and that your version of the PT will still cover the Clone Wars, and not the rise of the Empire... But I infer the reverse from your post.

OR...and I just thought of this now...the Empire COULD rise directly out of the Clone Wars, and the Empire could declare the Jedi as enemies of the state (either publicly or in secret). Now, it would take a long time to kill everyone involved in an order like the Jedi (especially with a lack of "Order 66" nonsense), which would give the Jedi enough time to form their own resistance or underground. Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Anakin's wife would be part of this underground - Anakin being one of the Jedi, of course, and Anakin's wife being a sympathizer. This underground could also be the start of the Rebellion, which would explain why the Rebellion always seemed more "religious" (saying "May the Force be with you" to its pilots, in an era when most people seemed to think the Force was "just a bunch of simple tricks and nonsense"). Eventually, the Empire has been around for a while, the majority of the galaxy doesn't believe in the Force due to the Emperor's influence (he seemed paranoid in ESB about another Force user rising up to destroy him, so if nobody believed in the Force, they wouldn't train themselves in it...which is why I think he wanted people to think the Force was just a myth).

Anakin, for some reason or another, is "seduced" (NOT tricked) by the Dark Side and betrays his fellow Jedi (at around 19 BBY). Obi-Wan goes to take him out himself, in order to stop Anakin from destroying their entire underground, and of course he is only partially successful.

What do you think of that idea? I'd also like to hear yours! :)

 I think non-OT Star Wars suffers from one of two things:

1) A reluctance/inability to get away from the Rebellion/Empire scenario.

2) Something so far from the Rebellion/Empire scenario that it doesn't feel like Star Wars anymore.

I would have to say your idea of proto-Rebellion fighting against an early Empire sounds like it would be treading a too familiar territory.  But that is just my opinion.

Promus said:

The Republic doesn't need a clone army...just recruit like ten guys from each of the 1 million planets in the Republic and whammo, you've instantly got 10 million soldiers. It would be easy to make an even bigger army the same way, almost instantly.

Welcome also.

Something I've been wondering is how many planetary members of the Republic are there? Star Wars wikis aren't real clear, I found one suggesting there are 'over 2,000' members (planets, trade guilds, etc). In real terms, scientists say there are billions of planets in our galaxy (granted most cannot sustain life). To me, it just gets too over the top if there are many thousands of planets in the Republic. For story purposes, I would probably prefer only a few hundred planets. And certainly there are many inhabitable planets that are simply not part of the Republic because they're not civilized or are very remote. Still easy to raise a sizable army, of course. I'm just wondering your thoughts on the nature of the Republic.

Who knows what brought Kenobi to Tatooine, but that's where he would have met Anakin. Maybe Anakin really DID do work as a navigator on a spice freighter originally, but he obviously lived on Tatooine and was a great pilot.

This is a story element I want to make sure is solid. Some hate the idea of being on Tatooine again. But that is clearly where Anakin was from. Owen thought Anakin should have stayed "here." And the link with Owen (who apparently has it in his bones to be a moisture farmer) makes it almost impossible to not have Anakin come from Tatooine.

Maybe Obi-Wan met Anakin at the Mos Eisley cantina - how else would Kenobi know that the cantina is a great place to find talented pilots?

I like this idea...but I also don't want to take away from the fun of seeing the cantina for the first time in ANH. The whole point of panning across the aliens in ANH was to show how exotic it was. If we already know, then the ANH experience can fall flat.

Befriending Anakin, he fills his head with tales of glory, and war, and the wonder of the Force, all of which eclipsed the monotony of his safe, boring little life. Against the wishes of his brother, Owen, Anakin leaves the family farm and all of its mundane responsibilities to fight in the Clone Wars, "on some damn fool idealistic crusade" and hopefully return as a Jedi.

I'm mostly on board with the rest of your ideas, with a few extra twists and turns involved.

It's SO MUCH FUN to brainstorm with other people! Especially when it comes to Star Wars. :D

I'm not really sure how many star systems are in the Republic, either; I think I remembered reading the "one million" amount somewhere, and that's what I've used. Personally I think that's a little bit TOO big, and I would prefer a number somewhere in the lower thousands, myself. And like you said, it would still make it easy for the Republic to create an army out of all the member worlds in a very short amount of time.

And yes, Anakin HAS to be from Tatooine. I don't think it would hurt things too much; it would make Tatooine's appearence in ANH less "random" if we've seen it before, essentially. That was one of the things that the PT actually did get right - but executed EXTREMELY poorly.

Plus, things can change on Tatooine a lot, ESPECIALLY if you make the gap between conflicts wider. We can first see Tatooine circa 35 BBY, when Anakin meets Obi-Wan, and it can seem a lot different from years later. Then we'd only see it again briefly in the third episode, when Obi-Wan drops off Luke and goes off into the desert, so we wouldn't really see how much it's changed until ANH. The cantina scene can still have a "wow factor," but of a different sort. Instead of "ooh this place is exotic and cool!" upon seeing it in ANH (after seeing it in our theoretical prequels), the audience might think "ooh, look how much this place has changed!"

What do you guys think of that? Let's toss some more ideas around!

WheresBlackhawk said:

Greetings.

Just to chime in on the Tatooine thing...

I was never a fan of Tatooine being in the PT.  It all depends on what lines in Star Wars you want to give your attention to. 

You are focusing on Ben's line about Anakin "should have stayed here," and taking it literally.  What if it's figurative or he was actually quoting Owen?  "Here" meaning WITH his family not necessarily a defined place.  Otherwise, think of Ben's line in ROTJ: "To protect you both from the Emperor, you were hidden from your father when you were born."  With your father's name?  On his home planet? To paraphrase Comicboook Guy from the Simpsons: WORST HIDING PLACE EVER!

Getting rid of Tatooine gives you two opportunities:

1. To not retread old ground.  According to Luke, If there is a bright center to the galaxy, Tatooine is the planet that is the farthest from it, yet it is in FIVE of the six movies.

2. To create more variety of environments.  I always like that the OT had such a great variety of settings: ANH- dessert and high-tech station.  ESB- snow, jungle and cloud city.  ROTJ- dessert and lush forest.  What new setting can be introduced in NPT?

Its a great big galaxy. Where else can we tell your story?

But aside from that one line, it was clear that Owen had an emotional attachment to Anakin in that he didn't want him involved in Obi Wan's nonsense and then adopted his kid. Beru suggested Owen has moisture farming in his blood (by way of contrasting with Luke, "he's not a farmer, Owen [unlike you, and by farming I clearly mean moisture farming]." Owen doesn't come across as much of a spacefarer who relocated to another planet with moisture farming. So no matter where "here" was, in order for Anakin to know Owen, Tatooine should have been involved.  We could stretch other lines to simply mean Owen knows Obi Wan well enough that he wouldn't trust him with a stray cat. But still, the lines and relationships show a greater connection between Owen and Anakin. Owen anchors us to Tatooine. Maybe we can make up more convoluted reasons to escape Tatooine but to me it's not worth it.

Being on Tatooine isn't a bad hiding spot if almost nobody in the galaxy knows Anakin Skywalker is Vader let alone formerly a great Jedi. And it's not like Vader is going to pop in and say hello. Owen is his former friend but for all intents and purposes Anakin is dead. Unless somebody knows to look there and knows what the name Skywalker means and finds out that Luke is the son of Anakin and not some other Skywalker, etc.

What was supremely stupid was Leia being given the middle name Amidala (according to sw wiki) and being a prominent member of royalty and involved in government business. That should have raised a non-digitally removed eyebrow. Or at least caused crippling anguish to Vader every time he encountered her.

Tatooine can be shown in new and exciting ways. In my mind, Tatooine only need be in one of the PT. And I personally like the idea of Luke and Leia being children of Tatooine and Alderaan (that's where their mother is from in my version).

Mrebo said:

That should have raised a non-digitally removed eyebrow.

Haha, nice reference! The eyebrow removal thing bugged me. I mean, I've singed off my arm hair on the grill, and it grows back...eyebrows and body hair are persistant buggers! And they went to the trouble of removing the eyebrows, but not giving him the stupid scar from the prequels (the scar that they shouldn't have given him anyway, considering that ROTJ Vader didn't have it)? Ugh. Anyway, back on topic...

I think Tatooine SHOULD make an appearance, but I agree that it should only show up in the first establishing movie, and then only briefly, for the meet-up sequence. The fact that it's in the middle of nowhere makes it a good hiding spot; maybe the evil clones had set up a secret base there during the Clone Wars, and Obi-Wan was checking it out when he came across Anakin. As for hiding Luke there, even though his father is from that world...well, some people say that the best hiding spot is the most obvious place to look.

I like the idea of Luke and Leia's mom being from Alderaan! Seems kind of obvious now that I think about it, especially since Naboo has a lot of similarities to Alderaan (so why did they bother creating Naboo anyway when they could have just used Alderaan?).

Hey, now THAT'S a cool idea!! Show Tatooine as basically being almost a different planet entirely than what we see in ANH; a planet full of hope and possibility, and then we can see the ravages of war (and the Empire) on Tatooine by seeing how much it's deteriorated. Maybe Mos Eisley wasn't always a "wretched hive of scum and villainy," maybe it used to be really nice and classy (same with the cantina).

And after all, the Sahara wasn't always a desert. You could have vegetation and real farms on old Tatooine.

WheresBlackhawk said:

Greetings.

Just to chime in on the Tatooine thing...

I was never a fan of Tatooine being in the PT.  It all depends on what lines in Star Wars you want to give your attention to. 

You are focusing on Ben's line about Anakin "should have stayed here," and taking it literally.  What if it's figurative or he was actually quoting Owen?  "Here" meaning WITH his family not necessarily a defined place.  Otherwise, think of Ben's line in ROTJ: "To protect you both from the Emperor, you were hidden from your father when you were born."  With your father's name?  On his home planet? To paraphrase Comicboook Guy from the Simpsons: WORST HIDING PLACE EVER!

And with his real Uncle?  Yeah, I have to say that's a bad idea.  I'm actually very comfortable with no back story for Owen Lars.  Pretty much evertything else he's told Luke about his father is so much cabbage that I don't think any of his other lines should be taken as truth.  He was hiding Luke.  He was trying to convince Luke to stay in hiding.

The idea that Owen had a relationship with Anakin rings false to me.  I think he probably had a relationship with Obi-Wan.  Owen is probably projecting his feelings about Obi-Wan onto Anakin.  He should have stayed here.  Crazy ideas of destiny, etc...  And when Obi-Wan says his bit about damn fool idealistic crusade, again, I think he's projecting his own leaving home- however that affected Owen.

Getting rid of Tatooine gives you two opportunities:

1. To not retread old ground.  According to Luke, If there is a bright center to the galaxy, Tatooine is the planet that is the farthest from it, yet it is in FIVE of the six movies.

2. To create more variety of environments.  I always like that the OT had such a great variety of settings: ANH- dessert and high-tech station.  ESB- snow, jungle and cloud city.  ROTJ- dessert and lush forest.  What new setting can be introduced in NPT?

Its a great big galaxy. Where else can we tell your story?

 And I agree with you here as well.  Except that I think Dagobah is more swamp than jungle, and you forgot the jungle in ANH.

Anywho- count me down for no Tatooine in the PT.  I don't even see a real need for it even at the end of E3.  I think audiences can figure it out just fine.

So wait...are you saying that Obi-Wan and Owen should be linked somehow, instead of Anakin and Owen?

Promus said:

So wait...are you saying that Obi-Wan and Owen should be linked somehow, instead of Anakin and Owen?

"Originally" (in the novelization) Obi Wan and Owen were brothers.

What do you think of that idea, Mrebo? I don't really like it myself, and I don't think it meshes with the "final" version.

Mrebo said:

Promus said:

So wait...are you saying that Obi-Wan and Owen should be linked somehow, instead of Anakin and Owen?

"Originally" (in the novelization) Obi Wan and Owen were brothers.

Whether they're brothers or not- I don't care.

But if you're going to hide a kid from a friend, or from friends of a friend?  Do you take that kid to that friend's family (or friends), or do you take him to someone you know you can trust, who knows of the friend and the danger of the kid being found, but has no direct ties to the friend?

Probably due to the novelization, but also due to this logic- I never expected Owen to be his actual uncle.  Within the scope of the original Star Wars, where Vader and Anakin weren't the same guy, Owen was probably Luke's biological Uncle....  But I think since the "I am your father!" reveal, you can't consider him the real uncle any more.  I'm not sure if the stuff in the RotJ novel was also in the Kasdan screenplay- and just cut from the film for time/flow... but whoever wrote it was obviously trying to save the whole "how could Owen have been his real Uncle?" problem.

At any rate- no Owen in the PT means you don't have to explain any of this and people can continue to assume whatever they want to assume...  The pre-PT 'canon' of Owen being Obi-Wan's brother... or the pre-ESB/post-PT 'canon' of Owen being Anakin's brother.

Hmm....  OB1...  O1... is there a clue in there somewhere?  Maybe they were brothers in the... serial number... sense of the word.

Based on my "pitch" for the prequels, how would you fit Owen into that particular interpretation/imagining of the events?

Also, in WHICH novelization was it said that Obi-Wan and Owen were brothers? And what's the "stuff in the RotJ novel" that you're referring to?

Sorry if I seem somewhat noobish, but no matter how much you know about something, there's always more that you DON'T know...

Didn't the ROTJ novelization have the Emperor make a reference to Yoda? I thought I heard that somewhere...

As for Owen being Obi-Wan's brother, I could actually accept that almost, now that I think about it. Owen never refers to Anakin as his brother, or anything like that...Owen and Beru always refer to Anakin only as Luke's father, not in any relation to them. "Uncle" could simply be an honorary title...that's pretty common.

Huh, now my whole prequel pitch might need to be changed around...but I like the idea of seeing a pre-Empire pre-end-of-the-Clone-Wars Tatooine that's a lot nicer than the dump we see in ANH.

CWBorne said:

You could probably in a sense present three variations of Tatooine: the one with burgeoning development and some authority in the first prequel, one with abandoned buildings and clear decay in Obi-Wan/Owen scene via the last prequel, and finally the craphole we see in A New Hope.  

That's exactly what I'd love to see in our theoretical prequels, but that doesn't help me figure out how to work Owen into it (if at all), OR Anakin. Or Obi-Wan finding him there...now I'm all confused!