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How "original" do you think it is going to be...? (the 2006 GOUT DVD release) — Page 2

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The best example of all of this: the rancor scene for the 2004 DVD.

Since no one's brought it up, I felt I would - now I'll leave you to discuss it from there, I'm staying neutral in this.
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That's similar to what I've said. The 2004 DVDs were the first time I ever noticed the garbage mattes (which is a totally different from matte lines) because the picture had been "cleaned up" so much that now they were visible. I don't want them removed. I just want them at the same kind of imperceptable to the casual eye that they'd always been, if that makes any sense. And almost every model was done in space, so the matte lines (aside from the rancor and slightly on the snowspeeders) were rarely ever perceptable anyway. I worried in another thread (or maybe it was this one) that maybe they'd accentuate those things for the DVD just so the 2004s would look better in comparison. I don't want that, but I don't want them removed either because that would be a change. If I want to see a nice-looking rancor arm for two seconds, I can just pop in my 2004 DVDs, of which I'll have two copies come September. Otherwise, I'll take the line.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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I must admit that the Rancor scene is one of the few improvements I agreed with on the 2004 DVDs. It still didn't make up for Hayden's appearance in the finale, though.

Princess Leia: I happen to like nice men.
Han Solo: I'm a nice man.

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I'll take the line over the SE any day. I was really following on from speculation in another thread here about the likely source for the new DVDs. It's possible that that source could have been recomposited before the SE elements were added. If that is the case, it will still be the best available OOT DVD.
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What does the rancor scene look like in the '97 SE version? I haven't put that tape in for a while and don't remember well.

The lines around the rancor never bothered me (indeed, I barely took notice of them) until I saw just how good that scene could look from the 2004. Now I can't help but notice it, so I'd prefer it not be there. Ultimately it doesn't really matter to me much, because it's never been very bad to begin with, but being able to see Luke as actually being in the room with a monster is nice . . .

Hence my question about the '97 version. As it seems likely this new release will use the cleaned up and recomposited print that was the starting point for the special edition, I'm wondering if it was any better in that than originally. Matte lines aren't something I see easily to begin with so I'm not sure I could judge that on my own without a very close look. (Garbage boxes are a different matter; once seen they can never be unseen.)
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The main problem with the rancor scene is not the matte lines as much as the contrast ratios which are really different and really show it to be a composite. This is an easy fix with digital compositing. We don't know what the source is yet, of course. I don't even know if there is a cleaned up and recomposited interpositive that was used as a starting point for the SE. AFAIK, the new composites could have been added along with the new scenes and effects all in one step. However, if it exists, then the rancor scene will look like the '97 version, which is an improvement (technically, IMHO) on the original (did I really just say that?).
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How was the rancor scene improved at all for the '97 version? I thought it was exactly the same and a source of a lot of disbelief from fans since it was pointed out in the pre-Empire Strikes Back interview as an example of matte lines.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Hmm. I don't know if such a print exists either; that was what I gathered from things I'd read recently around here. I'm sure there was something saying that they had to recomposite all the effects because of the condition of the negative, so that made it sound like it was done before any CG alterations took place. But all I know is what I've heard. Who knows?

The rancor looked better on my old VHS than it does on the my TR47 set, perhaps in part because objectionable bits of the compositing were cut out of the frame by the pan and scan. I dunno. At least it looked better in my memory, anyway, I haven't checked the tape of that either.
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To be honest I haven't watched the '97 SE since '97 so I don't remember - I thought it was all recomposited - is it not?
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All I know is I haven't noticed any difference in it, although I haven't watched the '97 set since the '04 version came out.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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I don't have the '97 SE so I can't check - can you confirm that, Gaff?

You're probably right: I remember talk of recomping the snowspeeders, but then there are still garbage mattes in the space stuff on the '04 discs, right? So I guess the rancor could have been left bad for the '97 SE.
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I can't confirm until I go home this Saturday. So if anybody else can confirm before then, go ahead, or you can just wait a couple of days. (Only one more final to go!)

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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the matte lines are slightly smaller but still pretty heavy.
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That makes little sense. If they were able to remove some of the matte line at that point, why didn't they get rid of all of it?

EDIT: Sorry. I mean, why couldn't they get rid of all of it?

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Yeah, I always thought that was funny: In the making of the Special Edition documentaries on the VHS, they pointed to the Snowspeeder scene and the Rancor scenes as examples of how they removed matte lines and opacity problems--and then when you watched the films, there were still opacity problems and a thick line around the rancor.

as a matter of fact, I think in the 04 special edition of Empire, you can STILL see through a part of the cockpit. And I don't mean the windows
The Best Show You've Never Heard
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Okay, so I'm not holding my breath on the Rancor. I sincerely doubt they'll be recomping for this release - at best it will be the same as '97. I'd still like to hear a report on '83 vs '97, though, if anyone has both handy.
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Originally posted by: The Bizzle
Yeah, I always thought that was funny: In the making of the Special Edition documentaries on the VHS, they pointed to the Snowspeeder scene and the Rancor scenes as examples of how they removed matte lines and opacity problems--and then when you watched the films, there were still opacity problems and a thick line around the rancor.

as a matter of fact, I think in the 04 special edition of Empire, you can STILL see through a part of the cockpit. And I don't mean the windows


What I always thought was funny was how the pan and scan version of the original trilogy cropped the picture so that the transparent cockpits were never even an issue, but in the fullscreen version of the SE, they made sure to pan the image as far to the left as possible just so you could see the nontransparent cockpit!

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.