How many 'Bad' Star Wars movies could you take before you check out? — Page 2

TV’s Frink said:

jollyreaper said:

They’d be quite happy churning out Michael Bay-style lucrative garbage until the end of time.

Lol I can’t tell if you haven’t seen any of the new Star Wars movies, or you haven’t seen any Michael Bay movies, or both.

Well, your mileage may vary. I don’t see much difference, quality-wise, between Bayformers and TFA/TLJ. There’s equal amounts of narrative incoherence and illogical, inexplicable bits that get glossed over.

This.

The Disney Star Wars films are not akin to Michael Bay. Michael Bay movies are not only popcorn spectacle movies, but they stretch suspension of disbelief to its breaking point and beyond.

For example, in the Transformers:Dark Side of the Moon film, Leonard Nimoy’s robot character literally gives dialogue lifted straight out of Star Trek II: Wrath of Khan (“The needs of the many…”). Plus the main character, Sam, does video-game-style base-sliding under the entire width of a car; and similarly has God Mode turned on so as to survive jumping through an unbroken skyscraper window without a scratch and being violently slung around by a steel tether attached to his wrist without injuring his shoulder whatsoever.

It’s not at all the same. Disney’s Star Wars films are not popcorn movies.

Well, it’s a matter of opinion. If we stick to TLJ, there’s plenty of bad physics to go around. I know that Star Wars isn’t trying to be hard SF but it violates its own sensibilities. The horizontal bombers from the beginning make no sense since it was clearly established they already had guided weapons that could deliver strikes on targets. REDACTED

There’s the whole REDACTED

And there’s the question of how Rey goes from nobody to Force badass with zero training? I mean sure, Luke had like twenty minutes in ANH before he potted the Death Star but he was presumably doing more on his own between ANH and TESB and even if he had a few weeks on Dagobah with Yoda, he was still practicing on his own until ROTJ. Rey has come as far as she has in…what, maybe five days? It’s hard to tell how much time has passed in the two films.

SUPER REDACTED

You’re free to disagree with me and free to like TLJ but I found it to be about as problematic as a Transformer film in terms of plot holes and head scratchers.

chyron8472 said:

Spoiler tag that please. There are TLJ spoilers galore in that post.

I’m not seeing the spoiler tag option in the markdown demo? http://markdown-it.github.io I’ll put the whole thing in tags to be safe.

And we’ve already discussed many of those points at length in the TLJ discussion threads about why they do actually make sense. But you don’t have to like the film, so if you don’t want to have them makes sense then you don’t have to.

It’s not a matter of me wanting something to make sense or not but it is subjective. You see supports to make you believe that there is a factual basis for believing X. I see a lack of such supports which is why I don’t believe X. Everyone else is free to say they believe it or not or it’s not even important to them. But to characterize a difference of opinion as a willful obstinance is a bit much.

yhwx said:

jollyreaper said:

chyron8472 said:

Spoiler tag that please. There are TLJ spoilers galore in that post.

I’m not seeing the spoiler tag option in the markdown demo? http://markdown-it.github.io I’ll put the whole thing in tags to be safe.

Add this to the beginning of each paragraph of the text:

Spoilers

Spoilers testing testing Snoke is Rey’s mom’s college roommate’s hair dresser’s dog walker testing

Spoilers testing testing the death star shot first

Ok, clearly I’m tagging this wrong. How am I supposed to do it?

Double quote.

Like this.

Quote me to see how.

“I’m on a diplomatic mission to Alderaan.”
“Princess, please. I literally just saw you fly away from the battle on this very ship like ten minutes ago.”

"You are part of the Rebel Alliance and a traitor!"
same same.

So far as we knew in ANH he had a strong suspicion. It’s a bit more of that now with the context of RO.

TV’s Frink said:

Double quote.

Like this.

Quote me to see how.

Ah, ok.

spoilers

these are not the spoilers you’re looking for.

jollyreaper said:

Anakin Starkiller said:

jollyreaper said:

The three Disney films all share the same flaws. Rogue One had a decent third act but that didn’t redeem the first two acts. They should have avoided EU-style tie-in stories and simply done a separate Rogue Squadron film. That’s what I’ve been dying for since ROTJ, more adventures set in the Galactic Civil War era but separate from the OT heroes.

That’s exactly what RO is. Yes, it does tie in to ANH, but it still stars entirely new characters.

Not exactly. It is an EU-style tie-in by which I mean it’s taking a story from the OT and telling the other side of it in a way that feels redundant. It also introduces serious head-scratcher with Vader seeing Leia’s ship escape and then confronting her in ANH.

“I’m on a diplomatic mission to Alderaan.”
“Princess, please. I literally just saw you fly away from the battle on this very ship like ten minutes ago.”

While I have some sympathy towards wanting to explain how the Empire could have a flaw in their superweapon so great that a team of engineers with like an hour to look over the plans could spot it, the way they executed the plot point was awkward. Making it be protagonist’s father and having him on mountainous rain world and circumstances conspiring for him to have a final talk with her before dying in her arms and then the plans being in a robotic tape archive and all that. It felt cumbersome and like video game logic.

What’s interesting is that there’s actual canon explanations for what that first battle to get the plans was like. It’s in the radio drama and was elaborated on a little bit more with input from Lucasfilm. I think they did reference some of this when writing RO since there’s a battle to get the plans on the ground and everyone in the raid is killed after transmitting the plans into space which are intercepted by the Tantive IV.

I just felt the first two acts had too many characters, not enough focus and tried to hang on cool visuals rather than plot beats that made sense. But that’s just me.

My point is it’s technically what you asked for, even if it isn’t necessarily what you wanted.

CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

jollyreaper said:

“Princess, please. I literally just saw you fly away from the battle on this very ship like ten minutes ago.”

how does his response, “you’re a member of the Rebel Alliance and a traitor,” conflict with anything in RO?

What I meant was that, watching ANH for the first time, you could imagine that she might still have a bluff worth playing here, that Vader might suspect but not have proof. The whole “holding her is dangerous” thing. They were at the point where they were ready to kick away the last supports of the old republic ideals, the last means of legal resistance against the New Order within the system. That sort of talk never came up subsequently.

I just feel that there’s a difference in context between ANH as originally seen where Vader is pretty sure he’s got her number and the context of RO where he clearly saw this ship fly away and there’s no denying it. It’s the difference between having suspicious charges on your spouse’s credit card and them keeping late hours “at the office” but nobody answers when you call and seeing them come out of an hourly hotel kissing someone goodbye. There’s “I suspect you are having an affair” and “‘Honey, it’s not what you think?’ You’re really going to run with that?”

Either this is the way it strikes you or it doesn’t.

CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

jollyreaper said:

“I’m on a diplomatic mission to Alderaan.”
“Princess, please. I literally just saw you fly away from the battle on this very ship like ten minutes ago.”

"You are part of the Rebel Alliance and a traitor!"
same same.

So far as we knew in ANH he had a strong suspicion. It’s a bit more of that now with the context of RO.

So? Why does he have to explain everything to his prisoner?

I think the language would have been different. I’m not sure how long the trip to Tatooine would be but I’m assuming that Vader’s navigator saw the course they took and then plotted out the habitable systems along that vector. Given how short the hyperspace transit times are, the gap between the end of RO and ANH is at best hours if not minutes.

I mean it’s either going to seem weird or not. Like in the old EU Han Solo was involved in a bid to capture the Death Star plans which means he’s already had ties with the Rebel Alliance which seems to be contraindicated by ANH. Given how he values keeping his neck safe, after already getting sucked into an adventure with the Rebels before he’d be saying no no no I’m not doing this the next time it came up. This is why I generally dislike EU-style tie-ins that try to make everything too connected. Oh, Yoda knew Chewbacca? Yeah, I know, prequel canon but it feels like EU. Either it works for you or it doesn’t.

Well, hyperspace tracking only became a thing in TLJ. I think that’d make RO and ANH a few days apart. Not only that, but Vader never knew if Leia was on board or not.

On the Original Topic:
I really don’t know how many. I want to say after TLJ, I’m out. But part of me knows I’ll see Episode 9.
TLJ felt like a punch to the stomach.
How many times can you tell me you hate me before I believe it?
Am I in an abusive relationship with Star Wars?
I’ll probably see EpIX because I’m a glutton for punishment.
But who knows, JJ could redeem it all!

ExNihilo said:

How many times can you tell me you hate me before I believe it?
Am I in an abusive relationship with Star Wars?

I have two things to say to you.

1. Star Wars doesn’t hate you, that’s your subjective perception.
2. Please don’t use the phrase “abusive relationship” to describe something as trivial as a movie.

chyron8472 said:

TV’s Frink said:

ExNihilo said:

How many times can you tell me you hate me before I believe it?
Am I in an abusive relationship with Star Wars?

1. Star Wars doesn’t hate you, that’s your subjective perception.

Yes. And perception of reality is not unimportant. One’s perception informs their feelings and decisions, which can affect actual objective events.

2. Please don’t use the phrase “abusive relationship” to describe something as trivial as a movie.

I’m certain that was tongue in cheek. And it’s not just a movie, it’s an experience. To relegate the experience, the entity that is Star Wars as “just a movie” is to cheapen people’s feelings or desires for it.

chyron8472, if my tongue were any further into my cheek it would rip a hole in it. I just don’t want to put /s

Frink, Apologies for offending you. But did you need to belittle me and my “subjective perception”? It was blatant enough for others to chime in before I could even defend myself.

I admit, I was being hyperbolic. I did, however come away from TLJ (after 3 viewings to try to see what others in this forum saw, including my current detractors!) feeling more than just disappointed, like it was almost physical. I dunno, I’m not smart enough to describe it I guess.

If anyone else was offended by my poor attempt at sarcasm, I’ll retract. I’m here for SW, not a forum battle.

ExNihilo said:

On the Original Topic:
I really don’t know how many. I want to say after TLJ, I’m out. But part of me knows I’ll see Episode 9.
TLJ felt like a punch to the stomach.
How many times can you tell me you hate me before I believe it?
Am I in an abusive relationship with Star Wars?
I’ll probably see EpIX because I’m a glutton for punishment.
But who knows, JJ could redeem it all!

When TPM came out, it didn’t bother me that is was terrible because it was just a movie, and it didn’t make me enjoy the previous movies any less. My reaction to TLJ surprised me. It actually made me mad. I had to remind myself it was just a movie and it didn’t matter.

I’ll probably see IX. I’ll see it in theater if either my kids or my wife want to go. I’ve actually seen TLJ twice because my wife didn’t go with us the first time, and she wanted to see it. But I’m not expecting IX to redeem anything. Hopefully it will be great, but TLJ will still stink if it is.

I wish everyone could enjoy Star Wars the way they enjoy Star Trek. No one ever worries about the bad ones spoiling the whole Star Trek series. The bad ones are just the bad ones.