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How do you feel about Star Wars being re-titled A New Hope in 1981? — Page 2

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NeverarGreat said:

LIGHT OF THE KILLING MOON

Sounds like the title of a vampire romance novel.

My preferred saga experience:
TPM/AOTC/ROTS (Hal 9000), ANH/ESB/ROTJ (Despecialized), The Mandalorian,
TFA (Starlight), TLJ (Fallen Knight), TROS (Resurgence).
May the midichlorians be with you.

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AGAINST THE DEATH STAR might be a good title.

“That Darth Vader, man. Sure does love eating Jedi.”

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 (Edited)

‘Star Wars: Maclunkey!’

A film before its time 😉

No fate but what we make - apart from force dyads!

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ray_afraid said:

Dek Rollins said:

It’s still the same film.

Fair enough. In this instance, even the title change is enough for me to distinguish one as a stand alone & the other as part of a series.

I don’t think that logic applies to every situation. I watch the original version as part of a trilogy. Not the 1981 version. Yes, watching it as a standalone is simpler if you watch the original, but neither version functions only within such an exclusive setting. It’s just a movie, and it can be viewed under whatever lens the viewer chooses. The '81 version doesn’t have a “to be continued” added at the end, a la Back to the Future. 😉

I think it’s worth noting that people usually don’t say this sort of thing about other films that have “director’s cuts” that only change a couple of scenes. The DC of Star Trek II isn’t a different movie, it’s just a better version of the same movie. In the case of Star Wars, we’re talking about a release that had literally zero editing or content changes throughout the film, other than the opening shot being recomposited with a subtitle added. Again, Star Trek II didn’t have the “II” in the opening title on some prints, but nobody would argue this changes the film fundamentally.

I guess it has more to do with nerdy semantics than anything. : )

Of course. Semantics can always be discussed.

Army of Darkness: The Medieval Deadit | The Terminator - Color Regrade | The Wrong Trousers - Audio Preservation
SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.

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 (Edited)

^ Totally agree. That’s why I say it’s just my own nerdy semantics.
There’s nothing that makes the '77 & '81 cuts different enough, I just like thinking of SW’77 & ANH as separate films.
This is a personal fan thing. I’d never argue that Star Wars & A New Hope are different movies. Even if the 97 & on versions feel like a totally different film to me.

Ray’s Lounge
Biggs in ANH edit idea
ROTJ opening edit idea
Broom Kid agrees with me.

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Yeah that’s fine. I definitely understand what you’re talking about. Even regarding the difference between the original and '81 crawl, I think the bad formatting and the tilt missing the music cue makes it a different (and worse) experience than the original. And much of the SE certainly feels like a different movie.

Army of Darkness: The Medieval Deadit | The Terminator - Color Regrade | The Wrong Trousers - Audio Preservation
SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.

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Time
 (Edited)

Dek Rollins said:

I think the bad formatting and the tilt missing the music cue makes it a different (and worse) experience than the original.

Funny to note that even the earliest changes were poorly implemented.
Like the title change or hate it, it can’t be denied that the text no longer matches the music.
Ady fixed it, which proves that it was just sloppily done, like all the changes to follow…

Ray’s Lounge
Biggs in ANH edit idea
ROTJ opening edit idea
Broom Kid agrees with me.

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Tantive3+1 said:

According to GL he always originally intended for the episode title to be added to the SW opening crawl back in '77 but the studio wouldn’t let him.

I wouldn’t put my faith into anything he says, especially concerning retroactive changes. Because his narrative is always “I wanted to make this change before, but I just couldn’t do it. Now, with DIGITAL MAGIC, I can make the movies the way I always wanted them to be!”

My preferred saga experience:
TPM/AOTC/ROTS (Hal 9000), ANH/ESB/ROTJ (Despecialized), The Mandalorian,
TFA (Starlight), TLJ (Fallen Knight), TROS (Resurgence).
May the midichlorians be with you.

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Time

Broom Kid said:

“A New Hope” has always sounded like a title that literally took all of 3 seconds worth of thought before being added to the film. I never liked it, just for aesthetic reasons alone. I’d probably be okay with a revisionist/retconned title, if it was a GOOD TITLE. A New Hope is just bland. The only other title in the series that suffers from that sort of rote-ness is “The Rise of Skywalker.”

I’m probably very much alone here but I wish TROS had been called Revenge Of the Jedi…

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Puggo - Jar Jar’s Yoda said:

yotsuya said:

BedeHistory731 said:

yotsuya said:

A careful review of all the different releases and comparing them to the timeline shows that the original May 1977 version of the film (see Moth3r’s bootleg and Puggo Grand) had 4 differences. 3 FX shots and the end credits. Not to mention the soundtrack.

I’m curious, which FX shots are replacements?

When the Falcon leaves Tatooine, the shot of the Star Destroyer shooting at it, then the composite shot of the Yavin IV temple when Leia et al arrive, and then the shot with the Rebel lookout when the Rebel fighters blast off. There are subtle differences between those shots in Moth3r’s bootleg, Puggo Grand, JSC, and SWE and those same shots in Definitive Collection, Faces, GOUT, SSE, 4K77, and all the non-English versions (German, Spanish, and French specifically). Two of the were changed for the SE. Because SSE, 4K77 and all the non-English versions (even the earliest pan&scan releases) match the Definitive Collection and GOUT, the change had to be made for the late 77 release and they must have used a modified copy of the May 1977 edit for the early English language home video releases which would explain the JSC and SWE. But thanks to them we have them in widescreen. They aren’t too noticeable upscaled to 720p and spliced into 4K77.

I’m not sure if those shots are actually different. Having captured the 16mm myself for PG (and PE), I can say there are many ways I could have captured it, which would have led to differences is appearance. The one and only proven shot difference that any of my 16mm captures uncovered was in ESB when Luke was rescued from Cloud City. That caused a bit of a stir, I might add.

When you compare them frame by frame they are definitely different. The first shot has different timing and different explosions. It looks like a test run of the real FX shot. The second had a distinct timing difference with the people walking. The third one also has a timing difference and a distinct difference to the planet/sky composite. And it is consistent between Moth3r, yours, JSC, and the SWE. Frame by frame all those are identical and all those are distinctly different from the SSE, 4k77, the Spanish THX, French TXH, DC, Faces and GOUT (the last three are from the same master recording). The later two shots were changed for the SE, but the first one (the falcon being shot at) is the same for the 97 SE through Disney+ as the GOUT. So it is definitely not any problem with the capture for it to be so consistent on those particular versions. It is definitely a different shot that was replaced sometime later in 1977 (before the Technicolor prints and international prints) were struck.

And there is a topic on here where this was discussed in length, although the didn’t find a reason for it. I believe the reason is that the May 1977 interpositive and prints were pulled and ended up being the best copies to use for telecines later (even the O-neg took a beating form all the interprositives they printed off of it). For your and Moth3r’s projects, it was the original version (there is also another telecine out there of the same version with the original End credits). For all the English telecines prior to DC, a copy with the opening crawl and end credits replaced but not the three scenes was used. A new Interpositive was struck in the 80’s that they used for the DC (and re-released as Faces and GOUT) that changed the English versions to match the foreign language versions. Because of what those early version have in them and the known timeline of when prints were made, the only point those scenes could have been changed is before the technicolor and international versions were made. All the early versions have a mono soundtrack that is just a downmix of the stereo. That is another clue as the mono mix wasn’t made until later. And I checked with several of the various team members who have had access to the 35 mm films, and none of them have seen the alternate end credits on any 35 mm print. From what I see, the only way these 4 things could be different is if the movie was edited sometime between May 1977 and when the international and Technicolor prints were made. And more likely it was not long after the interprositives for the May 1977 release were struck. My guess is that all the 70mm prints were this older verion (as several of the opening screens were 70 mm). We do now they were rushed and these three shots are acceptable, but not perfect and would be easy to change before more interprositives were struck. especially since they are all exactly the same length which caused no change to the soundtrack.

And your Puggo Grand is the best copy of the alternate end credits. I used a small bit of about 10 frames to recreate it. The credits are quite different in spacing and the Dolby logo is completely different. I just redid it from better sources and the little bit where the end title cards changes to the end title scroll has a flash of an overlap mistake that I haven’t been able to recreate accurately. So regardless of anything else, the end credits were redone and the original only appears in 3 sources. But the three FX shots are different as well. So is the opening crawl, which is more than just a new crawl text, but we know when that happened.

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Tantive3+1 said:

According to GL he always originally intended for the episode title to be added to the SW opening crawl back in '77 but the studio wouldn’t let him.

I think he did, but considering that TESB was originally going to be Episode II, Star Wars would have been Episode I. So the Episode IV didn’t happen until sometime during the production of TESB when that one became Episode V.

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 (Edited)

And there was a point where Lucas considered making ESB “Episode VII” (of 12), with the prequels having a Prologue and an Epilogue film wrapped around the central “Clone Wars Trilogy”. So SW 1977 could’ve become “Episode VI”.

“That Darth Vader, man. Sure does love eating Jedi.”

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It is the last thing I would care about really, since it does not affect the content in any way.

真実

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How weird was it for people in 1980 when Empire came out and suddenly Star Wars 2 was Star Wars 5? It must’ve been, and it kinda obligated Lucasfilm to make the prequels because you couldn’t have episodes 4, 5, and 6 without 1, 2, and 3, otherwise it looks stupid.

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ray_afraid said:

ChainsawAsh said:

The Princess of Alderaan would have been such a better title…

I’ve seen that passed around, & I disagree.
If Leia was the main character, maybe. But it’s clearly Luke’s story.
(Also, the aping of Edgar Rice Burroughs is right on the nose. Dunno If I hate that or love it.)

Leia may not be the main character, but she sets things in motion, and keep them in motion. She’s basically giving (direct and indirect) orders to the male characters throughout the movie!

For a less Burroughsian title, I suggest The Rebel Princess. I think it goes well with the other titles in the trilogy, said trilogy being about the Jedi, the Empire, the Rebels, and a Princess…

Han: Hey Lando! You kept your promise, right? Not a scratch?
Lando: Well, what’s left of her isn’t scratched. All the scratched parts got knocked off along the way.
Han (exasperated): Knocked off?!

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MASTER260 said:

it kinda obligated Lucasfilm to make the prequels because you couldn’t have episodes 4, 5, and 6 without 1, 2, and 3, otherwise it looks stupid.

Totally disagree. Not having the beginning of the story was cool & interesting. As if those stories were lost to time with this all happening “A Long Time Ago.”

Z6PO said:

ray_afraid said:

ChainsawAsh said:

The Princess of Alderaan would have been such a better title…

I’ve seen that passed around, & I disagree.
If Leia was the main character, maybe. But it’s clearly Luke’s story.
(Also, the aping of Edgar Rice Burroughs is right on the nose. Dunno If I hate that or love it.)

Leia may not be the main character, but she sets things in motion, and keep them in motion. She’s basically giving (direct and indirect) orders to the male characters throughout the movie!

Sure, but she isn’t the movies focus enough to title the film after her.
If we’re gonna change the title, I’d rather it be one that references the overarching events than any one character.

Ray’s Lounge
Biggs in ANH edit idea
ROTJ opening edit idea
Broom Kid agrees with me.

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ray_afraid said:

MASTER260 said:

it kinda obligated Lucasfilm to make the prequels because you couldn’t have episodes 4, 5, and 6 without 1, 2, and 3, otherwise it looks stupid.

Totally disagree. Not having the beginning of the story was cool & interesting. As if those stories were lost to time with this all happening “A Long Time Ago.”

Z6PO said:

ray_afraid said:

ChainsawAsh said:

The Princess of Alderaan would have been such a better title…

I’ve seen that passed around, & I disagree.
If Leia was the main character, maybe. But it’s clearly Luke’s story.
(Also, the aping of Edgar Rice Burroughs is right on the nose. Dunno If I hate that or love it.)

Leia may not be the main character, but she sets things in motion, and keep them in motion. She’s basically giving (direct and indirect) orders to the male characters throughout the movie!

Sure, but she isn’t the movies focus enough to title the film after her.
If we’re gonna change the title, I’d rather it be one that references the overarching events than any one character.

How is that different from A Princess of Mars? That princess wasn’t the main protagonist either.

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 (Edited)

Does anyone have any other good titles for the original film? Something that it could have been subtitled back in 77.

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 (Edited)

I could see a fan edit with a crawl minus the Episode but with a subtitle other than A New Hope. Sure Luke is the new hope, but there has to be something better.