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How Many Versions are there of the AOTC — Page 3

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Ryan-SWI said:
The home video release of AOTC is across the board (on DVD/VHS/VCD), identical to the digital theatrical release on a visual level, as aforementioned. However, the initial home video release changes a few audio cues, the most notable being Padme’s “Yes” being changed to a more natural “Uh-huh” after falling out of the Republic Gunship.

Hmm. You’re suggesting that the “to be angry is to be human” segment was present in the digital theatrical release? Is there any evidence of this?

Hm. You might be onto something there.

I’m going to do some research and see if it’s possible, that’s something I’d definitely love to do.

The biggest challenge I imagine would be cleaning the audio to insert into the mix without sounding off. Centropy’s SVCD is currently the best source for the theatrical AOTC, but the exported 2.0 audio initially captured using a camcorder isn’t exactly Dolby 5.1 quality.

I have about a dozen bootlegs of the theatrical AOTC on VCD and DVD but none of them match the quality of the official home release DVD/HDTV broadcast, obviously.

We have the theatrical audio DTS CDs, though. The SVCD would not be required.

The problem comes back to things like the “to be angry” scene. I think it’s quite a stretch to assume it is identical between the DVD and digital theatrical. I can see the logic of thinking perhaps the two versions of the film were visually the same, with the audio changed changed - based on the fact that we know the robohand shot is the same in both. And that it’s very unlikely that the widely mocked “Yes” line went by unnoticed as “uh huh” in some theaters. But the “to be angry” portion is an audio and visual change, of course.

Undoing that change will require some frames from before and after the newly inserted scene, that were removed from the original theatrical version.

I would also say that there’s a decent chance that the deleted speeder was the same between DVD/digital theatrical. Seems like it could be a late stage, purely visual change as with the hand. But the bottom line is that there’s no way to recreate the digital version other than to make a number of assumptions (ones that conveniently make it actually feasible to construct. 😃 ).

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Sishyo512 said:

m_s0 said:

It sounded odd to me as well when I found that bit of info here:

https://www.movie-censorship.com/report.php?ID=683662

By now [2010], ‘Attack of the Clones’ has been released uncut on DVD in Great Britain as part of the Prequel Trilogy Box.

Thanks for checking!

I was starting to get somewhere with my film reel restoration, but as I was about to pour some of my money into it, I see this post.

Well whaddya know…

Actually, I checked that 2008 UK box and the cut is still there.

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I saw the IMAX cut of AOTC at Navy Pier in Chicago back in 2002 . It was a much faster paced and streamlined cut of the movie that edited out a lot of the more cringe worthy scenes. This was my favorite cut of the movie and it was before they could fit an entire film onto the IMAX reels so it had to be cut down for running time . wish I had bought the poster with Yoda standing over a cityscape that said " size matters not, except on an IMAX screen "

https://screamsinthevoid.deviantart.com/

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1080p blown up to imax size, gee that sounds beautiful.

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it was , and the screen at Navy Pier was the largest one I have seen , something like 40 feet tall at the time . the sound system was incredible and when the Naboo cruiser came overhead,the whole theatre rumbled . I sat in the top row and I remember the screen being angled a bit and when the opening crawl came up , It felt like looking down on it from a giant window in space and I actually felt like I was falling during the Coruscant speeder chase . I am glad I had the experience.

https://screamsinthevoid.deviantart.com/

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Possessed said:

1080p blown up to imax size, gee that sounds beautiful.

IMAX Digital is a 2K projection.

So yes, 1080p would still look fine.

Not to mention, Attack of the Clones was shot in 2K, not 1080p.

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towne32 said:

Ryan-SWI said:
The home video release of AOTC is across the board (on DVD/VHS/VCD), identical to the digital theatrical release on a visual level, as aforementioned. However, the initial home video release changes a few audio cues, the most notable being Padme’s “Yes” being changed to a more natural “Uh-huh” after falling out of the Republic Gunship.

Hmm. You’re suggesting that the “to be angry is to be human” segment was present in the digital theatrical release? Is there any evidence of this?

I’m seconding this question. It was widely reported as a change for the DVD when it was initially released, so it doesn’t seem like something that could be explained by faulty memories of the theatrical release like some of the OT “changes” people have misremembered over the years.

a trolling bantha

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Well, according to IMDB, the “to be angry is to be human” segment was present in the digital theatrical release :

IMDB said:

The Digital Theatrical Version (and DVD/VHS/Blu-ray release, which was based on this master) features several small additions to the standard (70mm/35mm) theatrical version of the film:
In the Lars Homestead, after Anakin has confessed his slaughter of the Tuskens and slumped to the floor, Padmé states, “To be angry is to be human,” and Anakin responds, “I’m a Jedi! I know I’m better than this!”

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m_s0 said:

Sishyo512 said:

m_s0 said:

It sounded odd to me as well when I found that bit of info here:

https://www.movie-censorship.com/report.php?ID=683662

By now [2010], ‘Attack of the Clones’ has been released uncut on DVD in Great Britain as part of the Prequel Trilogy Box.

Thanks for checking!

I was starting to get somewhere with my film reel restoration, but as I was about to pour some of my money into it, I see this post.

Well whaddya know…

Actually, I checked that 2008 UK box and the cut is still there.

It wasn’t until the 2011 blu-ray that AotC was passed uncut by the BBFC in the UK. It wasn’t re-rated, still classified as a PG.

Your brain just makes s**t up!

A fate worse than death? Having your head digitally replaced with that of Hayden Christensen!

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A basic reconstruction of the IMAX cut was done based on notes and uploaded, but God what I’d give for a CAM of the original source so we could reconstruct it more accurately.

It’s a shame the IMAX version was released so much later, I feel it’s a big reason nobody really bothered with a bootleg; the DVD was due pretty shortly after and the Centropy SVCD/VCD had been circulating for a while by then.

Maybe one day it’ll surface. A man can dream.

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Was just thinking, and I may have asked this before but never got an answer - don’t we have the theatrical DTS for AOTC? Is it for the 35mm version or the digital version? If it’s for the latter, that would tell us beyond a shadow of a doubt if the “to be angry is to be human” bit is from the theatrical cut or a DVD addition.

a trolling bantha

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I’m like 99.99999% certain that that part of the scene wasn’t added until the dvd.

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So am I, but there’s been a lot of claims otherwise lately, and I don’t believe there’s a bootleg of the digital theatrical version anywhere. If the DTS CD is for that version, that’ll at least give us a concrete answer.

a trolling bantha

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Yes, we have the DTS discs. No they do not have the “to be angry…” scene.

I have no knowledge of how the audio was presented/processed in the DLP presentations of that time. They might have used the DTS discs, or possibly some other method.

If I had some gum, I’d chew a hole into the sun…

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I remember reading in the earlier days of digital projection that the audio was simply “linear pcm essence.”

Since the digital version was already being delivered on a hard drive, it wouldn’t make much sense to have the dts audio on a separate disc. The whole reason dts worked that way was because it couldn’t be recorded as a track on the actual print the way dd and sdds were. They figured out a way to fit the dts timecode onto the print, which would sync to the dts cd. So whatever dts cd(s) we have for AotC are more than likely the 35mm version.

It’s been 16 years, but I’m still kicking myself for not catching the digital version when it was still playing at one of the closest theaters to where I lived. It was the only theater in Virginia showing it in digital, and of course there were only a hundred or so theaters in the country showing it digitally. After seeing the movie in DC on 35mm opening day, I just wasn’t in a rush to revisit it. It wasn’t until three or four weeks later that I fancied a rewatch, but by that point they’d moved it out of the digital auditorium for Scooby-Doo.

Either way, I’m still 99% certain the “to be angry…” scene wasn’t added until the dvd release. That summer was when I first started lurking and occasionally posting on the TFN boards (shudder). I remember plenty of talk about the alternate shot of Padme holding Anakin by his mechanical hand at the end and not a single mention of an extended bit of dialogue in the garage. Since one of those changes is quite a bit more noticeable than the other, I think it’s safe to say the “to be angry…” exchange wasn’t in the dlp version.

There was one person who swore they saw two different edits of the beginning of the arena scene (when padme is picking her lock), but that’s the only thing aside from the hand-holding that people were talking about that summer.

One last funny story I’ll share. I remember listening to the dvd commentary that November and George mentioning during the big Arena battle that he’d decided after the movie’s release to go back and add sparks to Jango Fett’s backpack. Well, he must not have expected it to already be showing up in the version he was actually sitting down to watch because he stops mid-sentence in surprise, pauses for a moment, and then says to the vfx guys “I just put that in yesterday for crying out loud!”

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schorman13 said:

Yes, we have the DTS discs. No they do not have the “to be angry…” scene.

I have no knowledge of how the audio was presented/processed in the DLP presentations of that time. They might have used the DTS discs, or possibly some other method.

Thanks for the confirmation. Yeah, it seems 99% certain that the line was a DVD addition and very likely that the DLP version had its own audio track rather than using the 35mm DTS, but I’m still very curious to get something concrete from the DLP version.

a trolling bantha

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Possessed said:

1080p blown up to imax size, gee that sounds beautiful.

it looked good though!
saw it at the Boston Aquarium IMAX, I think that is 80’?
They didn’t do it like they do today, back then they pan and scanned them to fill the entire screen or at least most of it, so beyond just cutting and unfortunate amount away time wise they also trimmed away a lot of each frame. That said, it was still quite a cool experience! It really did look pretty good.

I also saw both the 35mm theatrical version as well as the 35mm DCP and yeah, the hand thing was the one big thing I recall sticking out the most of all.

I actually have the full final 35mm reel, the one that contains the changed marriage scene.

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schorman13 said:

Yes, we have the DTS discs. No they do not have the “to be angry…” scene.

I have no knowledge of how the audio was presented/processed in the DLP presentations of that time. They might have used the DTS discs, or possibly some other method.

They just brought in a giant HD with all the video and audio files and the video back then was not lossy compression either, 100% lossless (well, certainly for TPM, maybe it had changed by AOTC, but probably not)

I might have thought the to be angry was there in the DCP, but no good memory to be sure at all, could super easily be totally wrong. I wonder if I have any notes anywhere from back then.

I also got to see the DCP for TPM at two different theaters, each used a different projector type.
One of them was played at one of the original smaller twins that used to pair with one of the mammoth screens that showed Star Wars on opening day in 1977 in 70mm (since split into 8 screens!!! 4 upstairs and 4 down!) that got one of the initial 70mm print runs before the 70mm prints got a bit changed for the later 70mm release. Oh man was that something. Going from having just seen some movies on a tiny mostly mono, maybe weak stereo 35mm mall screens to a giant screen with 70mm and surround sound and that Star Destroy just coming down the screen for ages at the start! Also saw ESB in 70mm there too. Man those were something. (I am among those crazy few who could swear we saw Luke miss his first toss in the Death Star and recall the scene being longer and more suspenseful and the door took longer to prop up in that initial first 70mm showing. If it somehow truly never happened, it is weird how we all came up with that independently. I had that in notes I wrote down as a little kid back in later summer '77, long before I had ever met anyone else, beyond my parents, who had ever seen it in 70mm on opening day. How did any of us come up with that?

One for sure beyond sure thing is the whole “close the blast doors! close the blast doors!” “open the blast doors! open the blast doors!” thing which later got removed and then mangled and not sure any home release has ever had the full length sequence of that as it was originally.)

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Ryan-SWI said:

AndrewTheMan said:

The VHS version was not altered a bit from the theatrical release

Uhg. No. Excuse the incoming long post but prequel preservations are my thing.

There were two theatrical versions of the film during its initial run: film and digital.

The film version and the digital version are basically identical from a sound design perspective (this is important later), but visually they are different. Give or take a few minor altercations, the digital theatrical print is visually identical to the home video release, whereas the film print of AOTC includes multiple visual additions/subtractions that are well documented on this site and in other places (Anakin’s robotic hand being the prime example).

The home video release of AOTC is across the board (on DVD/VHS/VCD), identical to the digital theatrical release on a visual level, as aforementioned. However, the initial home video release changes a few audio cues, the most notable being Padme’s “Yes” being changed to a more natural “Uh-huh” after falling out of the Republic Gunship.

Contrary to popular belief, the VHS is not only pan and scan; a few European releases of the film on VHS exist in Widescreen format. I know this because I own them all. However the US, UK, AUS, etc., releases of the film on VHS and VCD (VCD being Asian releases) are in pan and scan, until the very final shot of the film (the wedding scene), which jarringly cuts to widescreen before the credits crawl.

The Widescreen DVD release is identical to the digital theatrical print in every way bar the audio cues. The Fullscreen DVD release is identical to the VHS/VCD release.

The Blu Ray is again different, changing up even more audio cues and rearranging some shots here and there.

There is also an IMAX version, which has never been preserved. There are recreations, but they are not accurate to a tee.

As it stands the only true theatrical version is in the form of bootlegs, which can be found if you know where to look.
Or, obviously, if you have access to all the original film reels.

Hopefully this information is helpful to someone, and hopefully I won’t have to repeat it again, haha.

As an extra tidbit though, the comment about it being identical to the VHS release (the theatrical version, that is), is actually true for the TPM VHS release… Kind of. I’m not going to get super into it here but there are one or two minor altercations between the theatrical and VHS releases of TPM that prevent it being truly accurate, but it’s very close.

And while we’re on the topic, the ROTS VHS and VCD are the same as the full screen ROTS DVD.

As it stands the only way to see the actual theatrical releases of the prequels are in the form of original film reels, bootlegs or fan recreations. The ROTS Blu Ray does not preserve the theatrical print as there are CGI and audio enhancements; too often I see people claiming otherwise.

I really appreciate the information here since it can get kind of confusing keeping track of what has changed between the multiple versions of the flims. I’m certain if George Lucas was still making star wars films we would still be getting different versions of them. Something I’m wondering since it has never been preserved is exactly what versions of the scenes that are different are included in the IMAX. For example, does the IMAX have Anakin’s hand moving to grab Padme’s or does it have the version where it doesn’t? lol

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There are a few things we don’t know regarding the versions. We do know that theatrically there was the 35 mm version (the camera prints), the digital version (no copy exists), and the IMAX version (no copy exits, though many related what they noticed was missing). We do know that from the 35 mm to the DVD several things were changed and then more changes for the BR (none for the D+ version have been noted). It is possible that the DVD version was the original digital cinema version and it is possible some changes were made and they are different. We’d need to uncover the digital version to be sure. Until we have something more concrete, we can assume there were up to 5 versions, but definitely 4 that we can document.

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I for one remain convinced that the DLP and DVD versions are the same, but I seem to be the only one. Everyone else assumes that the extension to the Lars garage scene with Anakin and Padme was added for the DVD, but I have my doubts about that.

The 35mm version definitely didn’t have it though, that’s a certainty.

a trolling bantha

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ChainsawAsh said:

I for one remain convinced that the DLP and DVD versions are the same, but I seem to be the only one. Everyone else assumes that the extension to the Lars garage scene with Anakin and Padme was added for the DVD, but I have my doubts about that.

The 35mm version definitely didn’t have it though, that’s a certainty.

I don’t agree simply because it seems that George can’t help changing things nearly every time he gets his hands on one of his films. Right now my guess is that they are identical or nearly so, but we don’t have that DLP version documented so it remains an unknown. Not knowing plus George’s habit of editing leads me to lean toward they are different in some way.