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Hopefully the last 70mm vs. 35mm ESB audio differences thread — Page 2

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 (Edited)

As I pointed out, it's not one missing shot. When I synched up the audio, it showed that the shot before the closeup cut out early, and the closeup shot was joined in progress. The music is scored to the full version of the scene, and the music splice on your recording seems sloppy and abrupt.

If some accident occurred and that section got boogered up, the projectionist might have had to cut it out just so they could continue running the print. 70mm was expensive, so it was probably a lot harder to get a replacement print, especially on short notice.

Several seconds of footage being spliced out in the middle of a reel isn't completely unfeasible. A couple years ago, I saw a 70mm print of Ghostbusters, provided by Sony, where Bill Murray's line "So if we think of J. Edgar Hoover, J. Edgar Hoover's gonna show up and destroy us" was clipped out. Obviously, at some point down the line, that section took some kind of damage that resulted in it being cut out.

Admittedly, that was a 26-year-old print, and this ESB screening was during original release in 1980, but I'm just illustrating that it's not completely out of the realm of possibility that those missing 5 seconds were missing from that print only.

I second your interest in hearing another in-theater recording of a 70mm screening.

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Yes, what strongly speaks against this being a 70mm difference is the jarring edit in the score but anything is possible I guess. We can also only speculate at this point how that sequence was cut if it was indeed 6 seconds shorter, there's more than one way it could've been handled.

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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TServo2049 said:

I take back what I said about the radar dish. It's actually not there in the film cell. You can see a cloud formation that is almost completely covered by the dish in the familiar version.

I swear I can see something at the bottom of the frame, but I'm not sure what. Maybe it's just damage. (I will note that in the Super 8, the bottom of the frame is cropped off.

Doesn't look cropped off to me.

Super 8:

'85 LD:

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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Just to give you a heads up:
I just uploaded a GOUT-sync’d version of this recording into the website of the human organ.

To address the missing 6 seconds of audio from the Wampa sequence…

morgands1 said:
…the audio of the Wampa cave fight - prior to Luke using the force to retrieve his light saber - is about five-and-three-quarters seconds shorter in 70mm than the 1985 and 1993 transfers,

morgands1 said:

Here is an MP3 comparison of the Wampa scene.

http://www.wideanglecloseup.com/Wampa_comparison.mp3

It begins with the scene from the 70mm in-theatre recording, followed by the 1985 BetaHifi tape. Then I put the two in sync - 70mm in right channel, 85 tape in left - which results in a nearly six-second gap.

David

…I just put silence over it.

I do realize that there has been speculation over the missing audio of the said sequence. Perhaps the cause of the speculation was the fact that the edit didn’t come with an anomaly, like a “pop” sound, as you would hear it on an optical track from a 35mm print. But, because this audio is from magnetic tracks of a 70mm print, and since no one from this thread…
http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/70-mm-print-of-the-Empire-Strikes-Back-Differences/id/2321/page/1
… can recall any footage missing from this sequence, I’m going to go with TServo2049’s theory

TServo2049 said:

If some accident occurred and that section got boogered up, the projectionist might have had to cut it out just so they could continue running the print. 70mm was expensive, so it was probably a lot harder to get a replacement print, especially on short notice.

In other words: the film broke during a previous screening of this print and the projectionist was able to rejoin the broken ends together, even the magnetic tracks, so, that the audience didn’t hear the “pop” in the film splice.

As for the alternate edit of the Rebel Fleet sequence where these 3 GOUT SFX shots …



…didn’t exist at the time of the screening, I left those shots silent, too.

So, for the moment, this recording is the closet we’ll ever get to the first-released cut of ESB.

My thanks go to OT member morgands1 for capturing the audio and for making it available to us.

EDIT: I had a link of a video I’ve made of the said alternate ending with the In-Theater recording unedited, but I 've later found out that there are several videos of this scene out there on YouTube.

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I seem to vaguely recall there having been something a little different with the Wampa stuff between seeing 70mm ESB a day or two after opening day and then a 35mm showing a bit later on. I probably have old notes on some old computer somewhere back before all the various versions of everything and longer time made it all more muddled.

One other thing that makes it all the trickier, is I believe, at least for Star Wars (ANH) but perhaps for ESB as well, that the very initial batch of 70mm prints for the opening couple weeks at a few theaters had a slightly different edit than all the later 70mm prints they made and I don’t believe anyone has ever turned up a recording from the very initial cut 70mm SW shown at a very few theaters for a short time. I heard they made up a whole new batch of 70mm a few weeks in as they were getting the 35mm ready. (FWIW, many of the claims for the missed toss and extended scene where the door took longer to prop up seem to be from people who saw SW within the first week at a few specific locations only.)

(on another side note, has there ever been any home release of Star Wars (ANH) that has the original “close the blast doors, close the blast doors, open the blast doors, open the blast doors” scene in it? For a while that was all but erased and then it did get added in SE but not in the form it was originally although a bit closer in certain ways.)

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Didn’t “Then I’ll see you in HELLL!!!” get changed to “Then I’ll see you in hell.” at some point? I think starting with or maybe some time later for home releases? Like the “hell” part seemed go from a scream to somewhat muted sounding?