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"Hoooow is that possible..."

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I tried looking for the older thread about this, but it seems threads are getting deleted if they are over a month old.

Anways, atleast this makes sense now.
The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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Makes sense or no, it's still redundant and unnecessary. Besides, it kind of comes off as, "Search your feelings Lord Vader, you will know that I lied about that whole,'you killed her' thing. Sorry about that, seemed a good idea at the time."


Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.

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Originally posted by: Klingon_Jedi
Makes sense or no, it's still redundant and unnecessary. Besides, it kind of comes off as, "Search your feelings Lord Vader, you will know that I lied about that whole,'you killed her' thing. Sorry about that, seemed a good idea at the time."


Right, but before ROTS, I thought it was completely retarded. Now, atleast it makes sense. Seems out of place, but makes sense.
The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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I'm a little confused about what you guys are talking about...
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Vader's Dialouge change in the ESB DVDs. He asks the Emperor "How is that possible?" when Palps says the Rebel who destroyed the DeathStar is a Skywalker.

Palps replies "Search your feelings, Lord Vader, you know it to be true."

RotS finally made sense of that change. Palps new Padme survived and gave birth; Vader did not. Until Splinter of the Mind's Eye, that is. Vader must have figured out that Palps lied to him about him killing Padme and then tried to hide his knowledge of Luke from the Emperor until he could seduce Luke and over throw Palpatine.

But of course, that didn't pan out.

4

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Yeah, what Chaltub said. Basically, before the dialogue change, I assumed the Emperor saw Luke as the next in line. Then after the dialogue change, that still stood, but my belief that Vader didn't know about his son was changed. Now, after ROTS, the story plays out, Vader learns of his son from Palpatines admission in the transmission, and then tells Luke that the Emperor has foreseen that he can kill the Emperor. Not that the Emperor wishes it to be so, but that the Emperor even admits that Luke can do it. Thus, now Vader wants his son to join him to actually knock of the Emperor and not as some ploy to trick Luke to take him back to Palpatine.
The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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Nah, there's still a continuity problem with that. "The Rebels are there, and I'm sure Skywalker is with them," from the beginning of the movie. Give me the original dialogue any day. Makes much more sense!

There is no lingerie in space...

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don't exist... then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks... and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming... Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Personally, I still don't see how that line changes anything, even with ROTS. Vader learned of Luke after the BoY. This insinuates that he's hiding this knowledge from the Emperor, and I don't see the point. With ROTS, it goes like how I said above. "Search your feelings, I lied." One wonders why Vader didn't lash out there, or at least ask why.

Not to mention the line reading by McDeirmid was awful. I can't stand that "YEEESSSSSSSS". It comes off as a, "Why didn't I think of that" moment instead of the, "Interesting suggestion" of the original, "Yess......yes". It just felt totally out of character.


Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.

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I think that if Vader is really trying to hide something like his knowledge of his son from the Emperor, he wouldn't go blabbing about it to all his crew. It's true that they are pretty isolated on the Executor, and they probably answer more to Vader than the Emperor, but contact is obviously possible. Either Piet or one of the men under him had to have intercepted the Emperor's call. In such situations, it would be easy for someone to blab it to Palpatine.

There is no lingerie in space...

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don't exist... then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks... and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming... Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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What makes you think that Palps knew that Padme and the kids survived.
Pals was not around when Obi-Wan left the Lava planet, nor was he at Padmes funeral. At the funeral she was made to look like she was still pregnant.
So what gives the idea that Palps knew all about it.
I know he had a smile on his face when Vader went ape shit, but I took that as a "I have you all to myself" kinda thing.

But the lines in ESB about finding Skywalker do kinda mess up the conversation with the Emperor later on. I dunno...it's all turning into a mess at the moment.
If fat fucker Lucas is gonna release all these films again on DVD in one big fuck off box set, he really needs to sit and watch them first, and then make the changes needed!!(Don't all have a go at me at once)

http://www.facebook.com/DirtyWookie

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This scene will actually have it's dialogue updated again in the 2007 editions of the films - turning them into the masterpieces we all wanted to see from the beginning.

Palpatine: "I have no doubt that this boy is the offspring of Padme Amidala."
Vader: "Padme! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!"
Palpatine: "MWUAUAHAHAHAHAHAHAARRRR!"
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LOL
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Again, when you see the forthcoming re-edit of ANH and ESB that I've done, I hope I've done this awful continuity error some justice.

Yes, I'm teasing the issue to build up interest, but I really did handle this problem. Because Gaffer Tape hit the nail on the head. Vader already knows. And Lucas clearly hasn't watched ESB and studied it in a long time. I'm sure he just thought it would be cool to add this bit of dialogue without thinking about continuity. Why the F doesn't anybody at Lucasfilm ever point this stuff out to him?!?!?!?!?!?
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
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Originally posted by: ADigitalMan
Again, when you see the forthcoming re-edit of ANH and ESB that I've done, I hope I've done this awful continuity error some justice.

Yes, I'm teasing the issue to build up interest, but I really did handle this problem. Because Gaffer Tape hit the nail on the head. Vader already knows. And Lucas clearly hasn't watched ESB and studied it in a long time. I'm sure he just thought it would be cool to add this bit of dialogue without thinking about continuity. Why the F doesn't anybody at Lucasfilm ever point this stuff out to him?!?!?!?!?!?


They do! Here is a rare photo of the LAST LFL employee who DARED to say anything contrary to George Lucas:

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Ouch.....
MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
JediRandy: They're certainly beyond any repair you're capable of making.


MeBeJedi: You aren't one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can't say I find that very disappointing.


JediRandy: I won't suck as much as a fan edit.
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Poor bastard.
"A Jedi can feel the force flow through him".
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I really don't see what all the hub-bub is about. . .

Anakin chokes Padme. . . he hurts her badly. She may die.

Obi-Wan defeats Vader and rushes Padme to a secluded place where she can get some treatment.

(according to the book) All her physical ailments are "repaired", but she has lost the will to live.

She has the babies, then dies.

(according to the book) Obi-Wan and Yoda conspire to hide the children and even have the foresight to make it look as though Padme's body is still pregnant for the funeral (Though, oddly, they don't think to change Luke's last name).

Padme still appears pregnant at her funeral.

So, the Emperor and Vader can see that Padme died. . . and every indication is that she died along with the child (Anakin didn't know about twins). The Emperor isn't necessarily lying to Vader. They can both see for themselves that Padme is dead. How are they to know that it wasn't Vader's actual crushing of her trachea that killed her?

Vader later learns about Luke's existence from spies after the battle of Yavin. He's putting up a poker-face with the Emperor in ESB during their conversation (because he was hoping to find him and turn him to the Dark Side *before* the Emperor was aware).

What's so freakin' screwy about that?

H
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I definitely agree with Hurin. Vader KNEW about Luke before he talked to the emporer. He probably only lied to glean the most information he could about what the emporer knew at that point. Still, it does mess with the continuity.

Also, there was no way Vader could have known for sure he didn't cause Padme's death. The person he trusts most has told him it was his fault, and he probably has no way of rationalizing it any other way, especially after her funeral. So Vader thinks the baby died with her until he encounters a very intriguing rebel. I think he had an inkling Luke was his son right then, and confirmed it later when he finds out Luke's very obvious last name. As to why Yoda and Obi-wan didn't change his name when they whisked him into hiding is a little odd, but they knew no one would be looking for him when then, and he just had to be out of the way.

My guess is Obi and Yoda hoped to have him fully trained before he ever met Vader, and by that point there would be no reason to hide him.
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Originally posted by: Hurin
I really don't see what all the hub-bub is about. . .

Anakin chokes Padme. . . he hurts her badly. She may die.

Obi-Wan defeats Vader and rushes Padme to a secluded place where she can get some treatment.

(according to the book) All her physical ailments are "repaired", but she has lost the will to live.

She has the babies, then dies.

(according to the book) Obi-Wan and Yoda conspire to hide the children and even have the foresight to make it look as though Padme's body is still pregnant for the funeral (Though, oddly, they don't think to change Luke's last name).

Padme still appears pregnant at her funeral.

So, the Emperor and Vader can see that Padme died. . . and every indication is that she died along with the child (Anakin didn't know about twins). The Emperor isn't necessarily lying to Vader. They can both see for themselves that Padme is dead. How are they to know that it wasn't Vader's actual crushing of her trachea that killed her?

Vader later learns about Luke's existence from spies after the battle of Yavin. He's putting up a poker-face with the Emperor in ESB during their conversation (because he was hoping to find him and turn him to the Dark Side *before* the Emperor was aware).

What's so freakin' screwy about that?

H


Yes i completely agree with you, the dialogue makes perfect sense.

"A Jedi can feel the force flow through him".
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Originally posted by: Hurin


(according to the book) All her physical ailments are "repaired", but she has lost the will to live.

[snip]

He's putting up a poker-face with the Emperor in ESB during their conversation (because he was hoping to find him and turn him to the Dark Side *before* the Emperor was aware).

What's so freakin' screwy about that?


Entirely too much. Regarding Padme's will to live, there is no way that anybody who wants their kids would just lose the will to live once they're born. This was written by a man who has adopted his children, as Lucas has, and does not have biological children of his own. Unless Padme just didn't want these kids (which, in no way, comes across in this film), the sheer nature of having children would give somebody a reason to live, not to die. If she was mortally wounded, it could have believed it that she simply survived long enough for her children to live.

Regarding the "phone call" scene in ESB, are we to believe the Emperor doesn't have the intelligence (i.e. strategic information) that Vader does about the guy who blew up the Death Star? And are we to assume the Emperor isn't the least bit curious why Vader's taken the Imperial fleet off on a mission scouring the galaxy for some unnamed somebody or something? And if Vader has no problem dropping the Skywalker name to his officers, are we to assume he doesn't expect the Emperor will know pretty quickly what he's up to? These three added lines in ESB make no sense, even now that Ep III has played out. They are, quite simply, in the wrong place.

Move them somewhere else in the OT ... someplace benign, where they won't screw up our enjoyment of the films further, and it works quite well. Trust me.
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
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Originally posted by: ADigitalMan
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Originally posted by: Hurin


(according to the book) All her physical ailments are "repaired", but she has lost the will to live.

[snip]

He's putting up a poker-face with the Emperor in ESB during their conversation (because he was hoping to find him and turn him to the Dark Side *before* the Emperor was aware).

What's so freakin' screwy about that?


Entirely too much. Regarding Padme's will to live, there is no way that anybody who wants their kids would just lose the will to live once they're born. This was written by a man who has adopted his children, as Lucas has, and does not have biological children of his own. Unless Padme just didn't want these kids (which, in no way, comes across in this film), the sheer nature of having children would give somebody a reason to live, not to die. If she was mortally wounded, it could have believed it that she simply survived long enough for her children to live.



Equate it to someone who is forced to have the children from a rape.
The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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Entirely too much. Regarding Padme's will to live, there is no way that anybody who wants their kids would just lose the will to live once they're born. This was written by a man who has adopted his children, as Lucas has, and does not have biological children of his own. Unless Padme just didn't want these kids (which, in no way, comes across in this film), the sheer nature of having children would give somebody a reason to live, not to die. If she was mortally wounded, it could have believed it that she simply survived long enough for her children to live.

From the novel, one gets the feeling that Padme loves Anakin more deeply than anyone has ever loved anything. Indeed, even after all the horrible things he had done, she was still willing to forgive him and "go away" with him. It's intended as a "Romeo & Juliet" level of love. And, having lost him, she sees no reason to live. . . she is quite literally dying of a broken heart. She sees no point in going on without Anakin, and raising his children without him is not an option for her.

Is this lame? Well, I'm not a big fan of her "dying of a broken heart" either. But, you can't really state empirically (pardon the pun) that a woman just could *never* feel that way. Believe it or not, there are a lot of people who have children and never have that "parental gene" click on. Some people just don't bond with their children. I'm not saying that Padme was one of those people. . . but things just aren't so cut and dried as you seem to want to make it. It's at least conceivable to me that the birth of her twins might not restore Padme's will to live given who their father was, what he had become, and what she had lost.

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Regarding the "phone call" scene in ESB, are we to believe the Emperor doesn't have the intelligence (i.e. strategic information) that Vader does about the guy who blew up the Death Star? And are we to assume the Emperor isn't the least bit curious why Vader's taken the Imperial fleet off on a mission scouring the galaxy for some unnamed somebody or something? And if Vader has no problem dropping the Skywalker name to his officers, are we to assume he doesn't expect the Emperor will know pretty quickly what he's up to? These three added lines in ESB make no sense, even now that Ep III has played out. They are, quite simply, in the wrong place.

I believe Vader is in charge of finding the Rebels. The fact that this allows him to simultaneously search for his son is just gravy. I always assumed that Vader heard the name "Luke Skywalker" from his own network of spies. And that the Emperor probably heard the name as well from his own sources. In the OOT, it's hard to determine if the Emperor is referring to Luke for the the first time in Vader's presence, or if he's referring to him again, but now attributing him with powers that could destroy them. In the DVD-OT, it seems to me that it's being more clear that it is the former. But it's not drastically different either way as you could interpret the OOT to mean essentially the same thing. Indeed, you could interpret the DVD-OT to be saying that the Emperor has finally determined that this "Luke Skywalker" isn't just a pretender trading on a former Jedi's famous name (or the Rebellion may be using the name for propoganda). . . and that he truly is the son of Anakin.

It isn't common knowledge in the Empire that Vader was Anakin Skywalker, is it?

Anyways, there is so much to hate about what Lucas has done to the films. I just don't think this one warrants so much venom when there are much more egregious and problematic changes to be addresssed!
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The "death of Padme" is the absolute worst thing in Revenge of the Sith ... even worse than "nooooo." It's such an unnecessary cop-out.

Vader killed Padme.

Bang!

Simple. Easy. Classically tragic. And unbelievably, Lucas was too much of a wimp to pull it off. I have no idea why except that he still wanted the audience to like Vader/Anakin (even though he killed Jedi kids). Or maybe Lucas didn't want to depict violent acts inflicted on a pregnant woman more than he did.

When's the last time you knew someone who passively died of a broken heart? I've known a few people who kinda gave up on things after they lost loved ones. They *kinda* died of broken hearts ... after months of living bad lifestyles and being mildly self-destructive.

Right ... point is: it doesn't happen. And since Padme says she still believes that there is good in Anakin, I find it hard to swallow that she's given up all hope ... including all the hopes associated with raising and protecting her children.

As for Empire Strikes Back DVD stupidity, I've already ranted about how I think the new Palpatine scene totally conflicts with the beginning of the film and the scene is not improved by the release of Revenge of the Sith. But then, I refuse to buy these DVDs, so that scene doesn't exist in my world.




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Exactly what I was going to say Asha, those DVDs just don't exist and neither do the PTs.... Anyways, anyone know when GL will make prequels or sequels, man can't wait, wonder how vader got in the suit, and boba fett man he's soooo mysterious no way he could have been a clone and a annoying kid, no way people would buy that, right?, And 'The Force' gotta be something cool behind that, I mean you wouldn't say something unbelievable like its green mutant cells in your blood, no one with half a brain would go for that. But I guess we can rest assure that the prequels or sequels whatever comes out first, is in good hands with brilliant genius George Lucas at the helm........
"Drink the Kool-Aid. Wear blinders. Cover your ears. Because that's the only way you can totally enjoy Revenge of the Sith -- the final and most futile attempt from skilled producer, clumsy director and tin-eared writer George Lucas to create a prequel trilogy to match the myth-making spirit of the original Star Wars saga he unleashed twenty-eight years ago. Fan boys, of course, have convinced themselves otherwise. So have several critics, if you go by early reviews."
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those DVDs just don't exist and neither do the PTs


Amen. I don't own any of the prequels, either. I'll rent Sith to see if it holds up enough on a small screen to be worth buying, but I think the theatrical release of Sith marks the earnest beginning of my Star Wars healing process ... and I can slowly forget that the prequels ever happened.