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Hey guys, Remember when Star wars had writing like this?

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"Yoda: Ready are you? What know you of ready? For eight hundred years have I trained Jedi. My own counsel will I keep on who is to be trained! A Jedi must have the deepest commitment, the most serious mind. This one a long time have I watched. All his life has he looked away... to the future, to the horizon. Never his mind on where he was. Hmm? What he was doing. Hmph! Adventure. Heh! Excitement. Heh! A Jedi craves not these things. You are reckless!"

Oh god I miss it so much. I think this is probobaly not only the greatest line of the series but the best acted by Yoda. I miss the old yoda before george made him a joke... Just read this line from ESB. omg, it's epic. This is probably the one line that put star wars on a level in my mind that no film could dream of touching... Wow, do I wish GL let someone else write his new movies...

I just wanted to share this moment of reflection I had today. That is all.
He big in nothing important in good elephant.

"Miss you, I will, Original Trilogy..."

"Your midichlorians are weak, Old man." -Darth Vader 2007 super deluxe extra special dipped in chocolate sauce edition.

http://prequelsstink.ytmnd.com/
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I agree. Yoda was a multidimensional character once, despite being a rubber puppet. Amazing stuff.

One thing that strikes me is how the dialogue for the different characters in Star Wars was actually different. They all spoke like individuals in their own way. Now, in the prequels, everyone talks the in the same, sanctimonious or trite fashion or else they talk like a joke.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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I agree 100%! That whole sequence defined SW and its greatness over anything from this genre. Whenever someone argues with me that SW is made for children, I tell them to watch all of the Dagobah scenes and tell me if those are made for children?

Just to add something to this post, don't forget about the cave. The cave is such a great part of the movie because it is never explained to the viewer, it lets the viewer come to its own conclusion. Only Yoda says, "Remember your failure at the cave." If this were the PT movies, Yoda would have went into this long explanation on why Luke failed just so the viewer would get it, but back then, SW was not spoonfed to the viewer through the dialogue like it was in the PT.
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Originally posted by: CO

The cave is such a great part of the movie because it is never explained to the viewer, it lets the viewer come to its own conclusion. Only Yoda says, "Remember your failure at the cave."


Yeah, the lack of explanation was great. Though, I still think its pretty clear that his failure was how he used the force to attack and kill the illusionary Vader (his striking blow was dealt with lightning-fast speed as I remember). Directly attacking with the force is of the dark side and Luke saw himself becoming like Vader, taking the easy path to victory. Well, even if nobody agrees with me, those are my thoughts.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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i agree as well with the sentiment - ESB shows us how economy in a screenplay beats being spoon-fed with exposition, hands down, every time.

and the Imperial "round-table discussion" in SW (ANH) is better than anything we saw in the Senate - not too much detail, just "we're here, this is the universe", jumping in at the middle of the scene.

each prequel way overdid it in the dialogue department - GL forgot The Golden Rule of "show, don't tell"

For me, the "Anakin nightmare scenes" were particularly dreadful! "Young Frankenstein" had better nightmare scenes, LOL! "Dest-iny, Dest-iny! No es-cap-ing death-for-me!!!"
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Agreed, Wesyeed! I get chills just reading it, and look a the way it's written. Yoda is hardly speaking like he speaks in the Prequels at all. Very coherent, almost normal.

Imagine if this was "prequelized":

"Yoda: Ready are you? What ready know of you? Eight hundred years Jedi trained have I. Counsel my own will keep on on on trained who is to be! Deepest commitment, Jedi have he must, serious mind the most. Long time watched this one have I. Looked away all his life he has... future, horizon. Mind his, never was on where he. Hmm? Doing what he was. Hmph! Adventure. Heh! Excitement. Heh! Craves not, a Jedi these things. Reckless you are!"

Ugh. Still, even mixed up, it's still better "meat" than what was given in the prequels.
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Yeah, I remember watching "yoda" say something to the emperor. He said "Not if anything about it to say I have..." Or something like that. It was so butchered I try to block it from memory. That's not how yoda talks.

To me he never just spoke in badly constructed sentences. He just had his own manner of speaking the language, or style for whatever reason. It was taken to an extreme in the new trilogy.

I think though tpm raped yoda visually, it's the only one to really maintain his original essence to some degree. Or maybe it's just because he wasn't hopping around like a cartoon character on crack. OH well.

And yes, that's prettymuch how I feel too about how sometimes the OT'd just leave certain things to our imagination. That's what star wars is about to me back then. When I was at school doing some boring work and i thought about star wars, it wasn't about the fx, I could care less about how many flips and twirls a jedi did in a lightsaber battle, it was about the force and why yoda and vader claim it's so powerful. What could luke, or even I, do with this power? That sort of thing.


He big in nothing important in good elephant.

"Miss you, I will, Original Trilogy..."

"Your midichlorians are weak, Old man." -Darth Vader 2007 super deluxe extra special dipped in chocolate sauce edition.

http://prequelsstink.ytmnd.com/
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Originally posted by: Dug
Agreed, Wesyeed! I get chills just reading it, and look a the way it's written. Yoda is hardly speaking like he speaks in the Prequels at all. Very coherent, almost normal.

Imagine if this was "prequelized":

"Yoda: Ready are you? What ready know of you? Eight hundred years Jedi trained have I. Counsel my own will keep on on on trained who is to be! Deepest commitment, Jedi have he must, serious mind the most. Long time watched this one have I. Looked away all his life he has... future, horizon. Mind his, never was on where he. Hmm? Doing what he was. Hmph! Adventure. Heh! Excitement. Heh! Craves not, a Jedi these things. Reckless you are!"

Ugh. Still, even mixed up, it's still better "meat" than what was given in the prequels.


Damn, that was funny!

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I just watched Empire today, and I completely agree about those lines.
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Originally posted by: Wesyeed
Yeah, I remember watching "yoda" say something to the emperor. He said "Not if anything about it to say I have..." Or something like that. It was so butchered I try to block it from memory. That's not how yoda talks.

To me he never just spoke in badly constructed sentences. He just had his own manner of speaking the language, or style for whatever reason. It was taken to an extreme in the new trilogy.


Yeah, in the original trilogy, Yoda spoke like someone who tried speaking proper english, but that he was from a culture that spoke with reversed sentence structure and made mistakes. He still tried speaking the language properly, but his speech often reverted at key moments. Apparently in the prequels though, english became flexible and Yoda didn't need to worry about speaking it right, ever (except perhaps when it would even sound too ridiculous to George Lucas' childish mind).

Your example was perfect. "Not if I have anything to say about it" is a cliche! If Yoda was going to repeat a cliche then he'd speak it with the same sentence order (and not make his grammatical mistakes). Totally laughable dialogue.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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Be careful guys. Maybe for the super special edition of Empire George will bring in Frank Oz to redo yoda's dialogue more in line with 'his original vision'...

I actually don't really like Yoda in the PT. Part of it is the over the top backwards speak that fails to maek much sense or impact. And part of it is the fact he's now an action hero. We shouldnt have seen him with a lit saber at all imo.

didn't the fx guys pretty much convince George that they could do a fully 3d yoda? I wish they'd played that down a bit. What did George have in store for us before he was swayed to use this new digital yoda...?

and keep in mind that the Empire script passed through many [writers] hands, they really wasn't any sort of George filter on the PT scripts. Just a bunch of yesmen.

Palpy: At last the Jedi are no more!
Yoda: Not if anything to say about it i have...
Palpy : wtf? English dood!
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Originally posted by: Wesyeed
Yeah, I remember watching "yoda" say something to the emperor. He said "Not if anything about it to say I have..." Or something like that. It was so butchered I try to block it from memory. That's not how yoda talks.


That line is terrible, but it just might be topped by: "Around the survivors, a perimeter create."

That might be the most embarassing piece of dialogue ever comitted to film. How close must Frank Oz have been to just saying "I'm not putting my voice to this garbage."

It's like something out of a piece of fanfic written by a 12 year-old kid.
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Despite the desire to have Yoda appear in the prequel, I really wish Yoda had not been in the prequels. I would've preferred that Yoda, even though strong in the Force, realizes that he is too frail, physically, to counter the looming dark side, and thereby, leaves, goes into hiding, waiting for the good Jedi to find him, or at least, wait for one who would be strong enough to train and battle the Emperor.

(And I really would love the surprise of ESB when we finally do get to see Yoda remain intact. "That's Yoda?!" As it stands, Yoda is ruined for me by having him appear in the PT. Now it's no surprise to anyone by ESB).

So, we'd get exposition right away in Episode I of Obi-Wan bringing Anakin to Yoda, only to be told, "He's gone, no one knows where he went. He said he wasn't strong enough." And then Obi-Wan decides, "Okay, if Yoda isn't here to train him, then I will."

Which fits right in with everything Obi-Wan said in the OOT.
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Originally posted by: GeorgeLucasIsANarcissist "Around the survivors, a perimeter create."



Haha, you beat me to it, I was going to post that.

Originally posted by: Johnny Ringo

didn't the fx guys pretty much convince George that they could do a fully 3d yoda? I wish they'd played that down a bit. What did George have in store for us before he was swayed to use this new digital yoda...?




By 3d do you mean CG? I think George wanted a fully CG Yoda for TPM, they couldn't do it justice but they did use the CG model for the overhead shot of Yoda circling Obi Wan on bended knee at the end when he becomes knighted and granted permission to train Anakin, if memory serves me correctly.

For AOTC pre-production in one of the documentaries George is worried about being able to pull off Yoda convincingly and to the public satisfaction. He mentions, and I'm paraphrasing, that they have to be able to do it, because Yoda's fight is the climax of the film and the success of the film depends on it. Gee, what ever happened to not relying on Special Effects to tell a story?

Dammit, I'm being negative when I try not to.

"Well here's a big bag of rock salt" - Patton Oswalt

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I agree completely, Wesyeed! IMHO, ESB is the best written of all the SW films by a considerable margin.
Don't you call me a mindless philosopher...!
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Um, Empire has some of the best ... and worst ... dialogue in the series. Yoda's lines may have been better, but Leia and 3PO in particular suffered from really crappy dialogue compared to the lines they were given to speak in Star Wars.


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I will admit that Empire is the movie where 3PO became extremely whiny and high-pitched, although not nearly as high-pitched as he would be in the prequels.

There is no lingerie in space...

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don't exist... then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks... and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming... Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Yoda's dialogue and wording does have apparent origins and that was confirmed a long time ago.

I think anyone can have a passing appreciation at least for Western philosophy and that is really what Yoda has always stood for. Taoism mainly, but Confucianism to a small degree, with Yoda always giving the impression that there were set rituals and traditions within the Jedi ranks. It takes training from anther individual in Confucianism to get to be a real Confucianist. In Taoism it is more of a self and individual journey unless you refer to the religious Taoism and not the normal philisophical kind. The Force in ESB is portrayed strongly as a bit of both of these Western thoughts.

A lot of people say they see Buddhism in the Jedi thoughts of ESB, but personally I see it to a much lesser degree than with Confucianism and Taoism.


Originally posted by: Dug
Despite the desire to have Yoda appear in the prequel, I really wish Yoda had not been in the prequels. I would've preferred that Yoda, even though strong in the Force, realizes that he is too frail, physically, to counter the looming dark side, and thereby, leaves, goes into hiding, waiting for the good Jedi to find him, or at least, wait for one who would be strong enough to train and battle the Emperor.

(And I really would love the surprise of ESB when we finally do get to see Yoda remain intact. "That's Yoda?!" As it stands, Yoda is ruined for me by having him appear in the PT. Now it's no surprise to anyone by ESB).

So, we'd get exposition right away in Episode I of Obi-Wan bringing Anakin to Yoda, only to be told, "He's gone, no one knows where he went. He said he wasn't strong enough." And then Obi-Wan decides, "Okay, if Yoda isn't here to train him, then I will."

Which fits right in with everything Obi-Wan said in the OOT.


Yoda got a bit too much screen-time in the Prequel Trilogy but I stand by saying he was necessary for Revenge of the Sith at the very least. Let's take a look at what Yoda did accomplish in the PT.

Episode I : Gave Obi-Wan permission to train Anakin after all the Qui-Gon controversy. Anakin's apprenticeship under Obi-Wan is undeniably a cornerstone of the entire saga.

Ep. II : Initiated the clones on Kamino and brought them over to Geonosis which essentially began the Clone Wars.

Ep. III : Was the voice of reason to Anakin before his fall. Fought the Emperor and was the one who commanded that the remaining Jedi go into hiding until the time was ripe.
Why hello there
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Episode I : Gave Obi-Wan permission to train Anakin after all the Qui-Gon controversy. Anakin's apprenticeship under Obi-Wan is undeniably a cornerstone of the entire saga.

I don't think Obi-Wan needed Yoda's permission. Obi-Wan only says, "I took it upon myself to train Anakin..." If Yoda is missing, what is Obi-Wan to do but "take it upon himself." There is nothing implied in Obi-Wan's OT statements that he needed Yoda's permission.


Ep. II : Initiated the clones on Kamino and brought them over to Geonosis which essentially began the Clone Wars.

I don't see how it is necessary for Yoda to be the instigator of the Clones being utilized, in fact, it makes Yoda look like he's the one to blame for the entire "Clone War."

Ep. III : Was the voice of reason to Anakin before his fall. Fought the Emperor and was the one who commanded that the remaining Jedi go into hiding until the time was ripe.

Well, that I can't argue with. Yeah, Yoda is (or was suppose to be) the voice of wisdom--which no one heeded. But, again, I don't think it was entirely necessary for Yoda to confront the Emperor. It could be as simple as Yoda felt he wasn't physically strong enough to face the ultimate Sith, and that it would be better to train someone young and strong to do it. But, I guess it all boils down to preference and taste.

But, like I say, I wouldn't mind a knock-out, drag-out Force-fight between Yoda and the Emperor. The scenes in ROTS came close, but not close enough for me. There are kernels of little goodness in the giant dog turd, but I still wouldn't eat it....
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Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
I will admit that Empire is the movie where 3PO became extremely whiny and high-pitched, although not nearly as high-pitched as he would be in the prequels.



I read about this sometimes and he is. I don't know why but they also really punished the droid for his crimes too; he really got bashed and abused in ESB... I felt rather sad back when I first saw ESB when Threepio was "dead." It just wasn't the same star wars feel without him being a pain in R2's ass...

Considering he was really a pile of junk throughout most of the movie, I could understand why he'd complain a lot at that point. Before that, he's just kinda annoying to r2 and han with his pessimistic attitude and understandbly Han shuts him up and is constantly berating threepio. He probably wishes he could chuck him out into space.

Now that I think of it, I can't remember why he was even in the new movies... he didn't do anything really except be the only robot to get its memory erased by Jimmy Smits. Weird.

Oh and here's a little rant: Threepio is battered and abused in all of the OT, but that jar jar character who really deserves to be blasted to pieces got away with only a few kicks to the scrodum. I think that is just unfair though granted getting hit in the scrodum hurts for us human males, we don't know how it really affects the gungans. And I can't believe I'm thinking about gungan scrodums...


He big in nothing important in good elephant.

"Miss you, I will, Original Trilogy..."

"Your midichlorians are weak, Old man." -Darth Vader 2007 super deluxe extra special dipped in chocolate sauce edition.

http://prequelsstink.ytmnd.com/
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Originally posted by: Obi Jeewhyen
Um, Empire has some of the best ... and worst ... dialogue in the series. Yoda's lines may have been better, but Leia and 3PO in particular suffered from really crappy dialogue compared to the lines they were given to speak in Star Wars.


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:/ Yeah Star Wars had some great lines. "I find your lack of faith disturbing." That with JEJ's voice behind it is on its own level. After these last six years I'm truly just happy that I can watch esb and not hear "Mesa don't like sand, it'sa very rough and gets in mesa crotch..."

The worst line from empire i can think of was... luke's scream in the special edition. Absolutely horrid. It moreso depends on the performer too I guess because I don't pay much attention to the writing unless it's really terrible. There's a part where a bad actor gets to speak and he sounds as dead as a Hayden Christensen. It always makes me cringe.

My fav character was Lando simply because of how smooth he was. I guess he and yod added something to the genuine feeling of history the characters had in the star wars universe, before we actually saw that history anyway. Even if he really said all this stuff, he'd still be cool to me Landoooooo . Both have a history with one of the characters from the first movie... so I guess that's an interesting parallel: Luke going to meet an old jedi master, Han going to meet an old friend, both being hunted by the empire...

I'm surprised there wasn't a young lando in one of the new movies. He's such an important character... way moreso than boba.
He big in nothing important in good elephant.

"Miss you, I will, Original Trilogy..."

"Your midichlorians are weak, Old man." -Darth Vader 2007 super deluxe extra special dipped in chocolate sauce edition.

http://prequelsstink.ytmnd.com/
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Originally posted by: Obi Jeewhyen
Um, Empire has some of the best ... and worst ... dialogue in the series. Yoda's lines may have been better, but Leia and 3PO in particular suffered from really crappy dialogue compared to the lines they were given to speak in Star Wars.
I disagree. I think ESB's script is much better than that of ANH. ESB suffers from not having the luxury of the great structure of ANH, forming, as it does, a bridge from ANH to ROTJ. But I think the dialogue is the best of all the movies. And Kershner gets the best performances of the saga too.
Don't you call me a mindless philosopher...!
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We'll have to agree to disagree.

C3PO was a fussy pessimist in Star Wars, and a whining, complaining, annoying pest in Empire.

Leia (prounounded Lee-ah) was a feisty firebrand in Star Wars - while Leia (pronounded Lay-eh) was, well, a whining, complaining, PMSing shrew through most of Empire.


The changes were primarily in the dialogue, and were - I believe - due to the tonedeafness of the screenwriters who mistook feistyness for obnoxiousness and fussiness for annoyingness.


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