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Here's my stance — Page 2

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All I have to say is the idea that you guys were reasonable about the prequels in the first place just isn't born out by your intolerance.
Your focus determines your reality.
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Now, what's your stand on the 9/12 release of the trilogy?

Do you think it's an acceptable presentation? Do we OOT die hards have sufficient reason to be complaining about the lack of quality in this release? Do you think it's okay for Lucas to put out the OOT in this condition?
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While I would have rather had Anamorphic, I can see why Lucas doesn't want to spend the money it would take to make that happen.

I think getting the tranfer of the laserdisc master was the least he could have done, and he did it.

You have to hand that to him, he did actually re-release the O-OT on DVD at our request.
Your focus determines your reality.
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Only answered part of the question.....answer it fully, please....
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I can see why people have been complaining about lack of anamorphic. But I think for a transfer of a Laserdisc Master, this is about as good as anyone should have expected. I don't think Lucas half assed it, he did what he could to make it look as good as he could. Not only that, but he obviously went to some length to make it as close to the original theatrical version as he could (by reinstating the titleless crawl on ANH).

But I think it was fine for Lucas to put it out on DVD. I know a lot of fans who said in the past that if he wasn't going to restore a print, giving us a laserdisc transfer would be better than not getting it at all.
Your focus determines your reality.
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Did you want the original versions released? Or did you not really care either way....
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Yes I wanted the originals released too, even though I prefer the 2004 SE's. My interest is in seeing where he started from before he made his changes, and because I think a lot of you guys would be happier about things if it was made available on DVD.
Your focus determines your reality.
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Okay....so you seem to share the same attitudes as the rest of us.....so why do you think most of us are a little upset at the situation with the OOT?
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I don't even see why there's a debate over the merits of Lucas releasing a 1993 transfer.

Lucas releasing a 1993 transfer in 2006 is objectively wrong, that is how I see it.

Why do I complain when he does this instead of going back to actual film prints and making new transfers? Because it is perfectly within his means to do so. Last time I checked, he's worth 3.6 billion. What's interesting is that if this really is the final OOT release, Lucas will not have lied to us about the films never hitting dvd from a certain point of view. Hear me out. Back in '04 he said the originals are never coming out again, but since he didn't even bother to remaster them all we got was the '93 transfer archived on a dvd, and if that's all there is than he still hasn't put the originals out on dvd, if you follow me.
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I relate to the frustration, I just don't see why you guys have to get quite so bent out of shape about it.

I mean it's one thing to damn Lucas for not releasing the O-OT in a better format, it's another thing all together to spite him in every other area because of this one thing.

I'm not saying you guys have to like everything he does, but I think there should be more tolerance for his right to finish these movies as he sees fit, and more tolerance for people like me who happen to like what he's done.

I think that if Lucas did release the O-OT on DVD in an anamorphic format, then a lot of the rest of the negativity would go along with it.

Then again I was thinking that even a non anamorphic release would have aleviated some tension, but it seems with some of you it only caused more.

As if he's insulting you by not going as far as he could have to please the people who simply refuse to accept his artistic vision for these films.

It's within my means to buy all of you guys a hooker, but I hope you'll understand my preference to just buy my own.
Your focus determines your reality.
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It's within my means to buy all of you guys a hooker, but I hope you'll understand my preference to just buy my own.


You trying to be a smartass here? Or does this statement have a point? If it does, I don't immediately get it.
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Yeah, I'm trying to keep things light and fluffy through the use of humor.

My point is, sure it's within Lucas' means to fully restore a print and make an anamorphic transfer, I just understand why he wouldn't want to, and don't think there is anything wrong in not spending your own money on things you don't want to spend them on.

Putting the laserdisc master on there was going out of his way as it was, and I don't fault him for not wanting to spend more than he did on it. Especially considering that he did it mainly for people who have crapped on his vision for the whole saga since ROTJ.
Your focus determines your reality.
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Originally posted by: Obi Jeewhyen
In truth, though I don't care enough to protest outside studios, I distinctively dislike it when filmmakers "correct" mistakes that made it through to the theatrical version of their film, barely noticeable on an 80' screen, seen by millions of people. The car erasure in LotR is lame, as is the cobra-glass reflection elimination in Raiders of the Lost Ark. These were not independent art house films seen by a few hundred people; they were mega-hits seen by millions, with these mistakes deemed "good enough" for such viewing. And with dozens of similar mistakes still in the films after the directors chose to clean up a selective few. It's revisionism, and I'm not in favor of it.

Neither example, however, alters the film to any significant degree. I just think it's silly, and is closing the barn door after the horse has come home.


I totally agree with everything you just said. Once the film is shipped off to theatres, it's done. The end. The only reason I have yet to buy the Indiana Jones set is because of those tiny, miniscule changes like the reflected snake. It just drives me crazy to think of crap like that being done when it's not at all necessary. And it's never necessary. IT'S A MOVIE! It's not perfect. So you missed it in the editing room that a car drove through your frame. Would it have been better if you had noticed it in time? Yes. Is it worth going back and taking out after it's been released? No.

I watched BTTF with the Zemeckis/Gale Q&A session the other night. Throughout the entire session, Zemeckis made constant comments of things he hadn't been satisfied with, including visible wires on Doc when he was at the top of the clock tower, and how easy it would have been able to make with digital technology. Towards the end, the moderator asked them if there would be any changes to the movies for the DVD release, such as removing the wires he mentioned earlier. For a couple of seconds, there was dead silence, then both of the Bobs simultaneously replied, "No..." as if the thought had never occurred to them, and it was a completely insane thing to even suggest. Zemeckis continued to say that he didn't get this trend of going back into the movie and adding scenes back in and recutting it. He said that a movie represents that moment in time, and that you do your best, but then you're finished with it.

I love that man.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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I do to. I listened to the same commentary by him and just had to applaud his comments. It seemed almost like a direct jab at Spielberg and George.
He big in nothing important in good elephant.

"Miss you, I will, Original Trilogy..."

"Your midichlorians are weak, Old man." -Darth Vader 2007 super deluxe extra special dipped in chocolate sauce edition.

http://prequelsstink.ytmnd.com/
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oops double postie.
He big in nothing important in good elephant.

"Miss you, I will, Original Trilogy..."

"Your midichlorians are weak, Old man." -Darth Vader 2007 super deluxe extra special dipped in chocolate sauce edition.

http://prequelsstink.ytmnd.com/
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Originally posted by: DeathTongue
To post slightly on topic, a friend asked me why I dislike the Special Editions of the Star Wars films. I answered her with: "Suppose you go to an art gallery. You see a painting that you absolutely love. You buy it. You hang it on your wall. You speak of its brilliance to all who will listen. Twenty years later there is a knock at your door. The artist is standing there. He barges past you, goes to your basement where the painting is hung. While you stand there speechless, he drops trou and wipes his butt on the painting. He crumples the canvas up and re-hangs it. As he leaves, he says to you 'That's how I wanted the painting to look originally'. You say 'But that's not the picture I bought and loved! Now it's like unto toilet paper!' The artist shrugs and heads out."


Gosh, I've never seen a better explanation of why the special editions suck. You really nailed it man. Of course, Go Mer didn' care. Whatever way he can defend Lucas and his precious "saga" is good to him, even if it is ignoring what is right in front of you.

And about the "changing films" aspect, I agree with Gaffer about the BTTF trilogy. The filmmakers really kept the integrity by talknig about things they disliked and then didn't fix it. That's really cool I think.

Someone said something about the extended cuts of LOTR being for book fans. That might be true, but that's not why I think they're better than the theatrical cuts. The extended cuts not only add more from the book, but overall make the film flow better Sticking to the book really works with that trilogy because the books really "breathed" well and when you add more from the books, they do too. The films just feel more natural in thier extended form, and when watching the theatrical cuts after the extended, it feels like a botched edit job on the theatrical version. Of course, last time I saw the theatrical versions of the films was in catching them on TV. I have long since rid myself of the thetrical disc one. (Disc two has too many cool features to throw away.)

And that "car in the background" thing really dosn't bother me. I don't know if I ever noticed it in the first place. I think changes like that, that you can't define as intrusive, are fine by me. Like the little changes on the Raiders of the Lost Ark DVD. They just don't bother me because they don't improve upon or decrease the quality of the film.

Once more on the subject of BTTF: (little off topic) If anyone lives in Denver, the first film is playing on the giant screen at the UA Continental theater tonight at nine. It's part of a series of old movies they're doing. I've also seen the entire Indiana Jones trilogy, Spaceballs, the Goonies, and Grease in the last few weeks, and it's a lot of fun.

Watch DarthEvil's Who Framed Darth Vader? video on YouTube!

You can also access the entire Horriffic Violence Theater Series from my Channel Page.
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Let me know when Lucas shows up at your house to alter copies of his movies you have already purchased.

I can see why some artists don't bother to make a movie as good as they can. After all it costs time and money.

I guess that's part of the reason I respect Lucas for caring more than most directors would about making his movie as close to what he was trying to do as he can.
Your focus determines your reality.
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Go-Mer,

On the whole, people might not like ROTJ nearly as much as the other two, but it is only since '97 that the uproar over alteration has been happenning.
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I'm nost sure the point you are adressing here. I agree, people weren't complaining about the alterations until the alterations took place.
Your focus determines your reality.
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this one

Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
Yeah, I'm trying to keep things light and fluffy through the use of humor.

My point is, sure it's within Lucas' means to fully restore a print and make an anamorphic transfer, I just understand why he wouldn't want to, and don't think there is anything wrong in not spending your own money on things you don't want to spend them on.

Putting the laserdisc master on there was going out of his way as it was, and I don't fault him for not wanting to spend more than he did on it. Especially considering that he did it mainly for people who have crapped on his vision for the whole saga since ROTJ.


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I meant since ROTJ as in the SE's and Prequels.
Your focus determines your reality.
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For the Record I have to say I love the LotR trilogy. To me t's a great example of good modern cinema. RotK, I had a few problems with, but overall, with the strength of the first two supporting it, similar to Star wars and ESB supporting the story of RotJ, it works as a fitting conclusion to the whole story. As you've probably guessed, my main problem with rotK was the multiple endings. Even in the theater people were getting up thinking it was over and then had to sit back down since it wasn't, LOL.

So they erased a car from the first movie? aww, I'd have liked to have seen it since I enjoy finding bloopers in movies. But I never noticed it anyway though...

Well to my point, I guess. I loved what i saw in the theater and here I have it on dvd. Yeah a car is gone that I never knew existed in the first place so I guess it's not a huge change.

There's real honest care taken in crafting them. you can just tell... And after seeing Lucas' toy commercials he's released in theaters lately, I've realized he doesn't care, not like that director behind lotr did. That's why I wished someone who was truly passionate about star wars was allowed to direct at least one of the toy commercials so it'd seem more like a real movie, not a poorly thrown together mess. What's more, later it's 'fixed' for dvd with added bits. You might as well not buy any of the star wars dvds with how lucas constantly tinkers with all the films as his original vision changes every year just in time for the holidays. Imagine if every studio head adopted this idea and kept releasing a new edition of their film with added junk every year. Why not go do some new movies?
He big in nothing important in good elephant.

"Miss you, I will, Original Trilogy..."

"Your midichlorians are weak, Old man." -Darth Vader 2007 super deluxe extra special dipped in chocolate sauce edition.

http://prequelsstink.ytmnd.com/
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Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
Let me know when Lucas shows up at your house to alter copies of his movies you have already purchased.

I can see why some artists don't bother to make a movie as good as they can. After all it costs time and money.

I guess that's part of the reason I respect Lucas for caring more than most directors would about making his movie as close to what he was trying to do as he can.


Why did I know this little troll was going to say that? How do I always know what he's going to say?

The point of the artist comparison was that it was a METAPHOR. A metaphor is when you liken something to something else, but not always making it so obvious. The comnig into the house part is that Lucas' changes were so intrusive, and his mantra of "this is how I wanted it" is like him walking into your house, changing the films, and screaming at you in the face. But since you always have to take things so literal Go mer, I guess you could never understand a metaphor.

You're like a broken record Go Mer. You may say different things in each post, but what you mean is the same in each and every one of them. George Lucas's dick is in my mouth and I will say whatever I can to make sure it stays there, even if it goes against all reason.
Watch DarthEvil's Who Framed Darth Vader? video on YouTube!

You can also access the entire Horriffic Violence Theater Series from my Channel Page.
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I don't see you bringing anything new to the discussion either.

You can exaggerate the situation to further demonize Lucas, but there is a huge difference between an artist coming into your home and altering a work you have already purchased, and an artist re-releasing previous works with further work done to them. You want people to take your feelings seriously, you have to be reasonable about it.
Your focus determines your reality.
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Originally posted by: DeathTongue
Originally posted by: Darth_Evil's Go-Mer ImpersonationLucas changes weren't intrusive at all, and just helped clean up the films. How can you say erasing a car is less intrusive than addding CGI dancers into Jabba's palace and replacing the whole scene? It all helps the films flow better. I love Lucas. I love Jar Jar. I think Anakin is the coolest chracter ever.


Don't forget "I'm 35 guys!" De-lurking because I, too, am tired of Go-Mer's PT gushing on a board whose focus is to celebrate the original three films. No, Go-Mer I'm not feeding into your "hate" theory, I just find your constant gushing somewhat annoying.

To post slightly on topic, a friend asked me why I dislike the Special Editions of the Star Wars films. I answered her with: "Suppose you go to an art gallery. You see a painting that you absolutely love. You buy it. You hang it on your wall. You speak of its brilliance to all who will listen. Twenty years later there is a knock at your door. The artist is standing there. He barges past you, goes to your basement where the painting is hung. While you stand there speechless, he drops trou and wipes his butt on the painting. He crumples the canvas up and re-hangs it. As he leaves, he says to you 'That's how I wanted the painting to look originally'. You say 'But that's not the picture I bought and loved! Now it's like unto toilet paper!' The artist shrugs and heads out."


Hmmm. I may not particularly like the Special Editions, but I don't think comparing the changes to a piece of crap is an apt metaphor. For one thing, give me a case where any artist has ever done such a thing. Next, I think you're just angry over a couple of the "big changes" (Greedo shooting first, Luke's scream, Jabba in ANH) and neglecting to see that there were some good things added in the Special Edition (added Biggs scene, Cloud City exteriors). Then again, everyone has their own standards, and I think that everyone has different standards of "taste" (no pun intended).