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Help Wanted: Does anyone have The Good, Bad & Ugly laserdisc audio?

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 (Edited)

If anyone is able to help me obtain the laserdisc original English mono audio track for Sergio Leone’s The Good The Bad And The Ugly I would be very grateful.

It’'ll be used to restore the original English audio to the best available HD video source.

many thanks in advance

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I don't think there is a good version of TGTB&TU in Blu-Ray. They are either DNR'd to death, or have no DNR with wonderful grain structure but suffer from terrible frame jumping at every cut. 

The laserdisc was in my collection once upon a time. 

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I guess that's true Matt, but the mono audio is sorted now, so I'm willing to give it a try and see how it works out with the Italian blu-ray.

[and thx PDB]

 

 

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Well, I've synced the laserdisc original English mono audio to the Mondo Italian Blu-ray but it does have its fair share of problems.

The Italian blu-ray is the best looking video transfer available but suffers from some frame jumping (missing frames) around the edit points. Apart from the occasional visual distraction, once you start noticing the jumps, a significant number of edits to the audio were required to maintain sync.

All dialogue was dubbed post-production and the lipsync is mostly pretty good but it's never going to look perfect.

The Italian cut is also longer, so audio for the missing scenes can either be taken from the Italian track or the 2002 English 5.1 audio where the actors dubbed English dialogue that didn't exist in the original theatrical cut. I chose to use the 2002 English track.

A better solution would be to edit out the 15 mins of additional scenes and get as close as possible to the English theatrical cut. That would be relatively easy except for Tuco's torture scene which is slightly rearranged in the Italian version. It's arguably a better paced film in the shorter version anyway.

 

 

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I like the theatrical version as well.

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Love this movie. I'm sorry, did you say you synced the English audio to the Mondo already? Where did you end up getting the audio, and is it BitPerfect? Sorry for the multiple questions, but, if it is finished, I'd love to see it. 

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 (Edited)

Hey Aluminum Falcon, Bavaleone got the audio from me, I ripped it from my LD and it is bit perfect.

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bavaleone said:

Well, I've synced the laserdisc original English mono audio to the Mondo Italian Blu-ray but it does have its fair share of problems.

The Italian blu-ray is the best looking video transfer available but suffers from some frame jumping (missing frames) around the edit points. Apart from the occasional visual distraction, once you start noticing the jumps, a significant number of edits to the audio were required to maintain sync.

All dialogue was dubbed post-production and the lipsync is mostly pretty good but it's never going to look perfect.

The Italian cut is also longer, so audio for the missing scenes can either be taken from the Italian track or the 2002 English 5.1 audio where the actors dubbed English dialogue that didn't exist in the original theatrical cut. I chose to use the 2002 English track.

A better solution would be to edit out the 15 mins of additional scenes and get as close as possible to the English theatrical cut. That would be relatively easy except for Tuco's torture scene which is slightly rearranged in the Italian version. It's arguably a better paced film in the shorter version anyway.

 

 

The theatrical (U.S>) cut is absolutely superior. The extended stuff is more of a curiosity. If the theatrical version could be edited together, with the ump frames removed, it might be worth syncing LD audio to it.

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 (Edited)

I'm actually close to completing a project that I've posted about on the Sergio Leone Web Board. Here's an excerpt of my post:



...I converted the Mondo BD and MGM BD into Apple ProRes HQ using Pavtube Blu-Ray Ripper at the highest quality setting. This conversion to a high quality editing codec allows me to make frame-specific edits. I also converted the MGM 1998 DVD into Apple ProRes HQ at the same settings as the BD files (overkill). I synced the frames of the Mondo BD to the 1998 DVD in Final Cut Pro 7, using the MGM BD to add any frames that were necessary, for example:

- English opening credits
- English character titles instead of Italian titles (at the beginning and end of the film)
- International cut of Tuco torture scene
- Blondie saying, "Sorry, Tuco"
- Tuco screaming, "...dirty son a biii-AYAYAAAA!!!
- "THE END" instead of "FINE"

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I decided to keep "The Fort" scene in because I love it. So it's technically not the theatrical version but very close.

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Good job - and I would be very interested in seeing the final result.

You kept the fort scene but I was wondering if you left out the other scenes with Eastwood and Eli Wallach's 2002 dubbing, like the extended bit in the desert, asking directions from the old soldier on the way the the monastery, & talking about where they were going after riding away from the monastery?

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eurospec19 said:

I'm actually close to completing a project that I've posted about on the Sergio Leone Web Board. Here's an excerpt of my post:

 



...I converted the Mondo BD and MGM BD into Apple ProRes HQ using Pavtube Blu-Ray Ripper at the highest quality setting. This conversion to a high quality editing codec allows me to make frame-specific edits. I also converted the MGM 1998 DVD into Apple ProRes HQ at the same settings as the BD files (overkill). I synced the frames of the Mondo BD to the 1998 DVD in Final Cut Pro 7, using the MGM BD to add any frames that were necessary, for example:

- English opening credits
- English character titles instead of Italian titles (at the beginning and end of the film)
- International cut of Tuco torture scene
- Blondie saying, "Sorry, Tuco"
- Tuco screaming, "...dirty son a biii-AYAYAAAA!!!
- "THE END" instead of "FINE"

 

This sounds amazing. How did you handle all of the those frame jumps where the 35mm element used clearly twerked in the machine? I found it to be utterly destructive when viewing that Blu-Ray.

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Thanks for the positive feedback.

It's been a fun but time consuming project. I have a copy of Rigby Reardon's hybrid cut syncing the (botched) MGM SE audio with the Mondo video. I think it's a great effort but I wanted the International cut (the version I grew up with) of the film.

As mentioned above, I used the MGM 1998 DVD as a template and made a frame-by-frame match. Afterwards, I spliced in "The Fort" scene because it's a beautifully shot scene and, in my opinion, was the only scene (of the additional footage) that would have strengthened the International cut.  If I exclude the "The Fort" scene then I've created a version identical to the International cut using the best video available (i.e. Mondo BD) and splicing in where necessary frames from the MGM SE BD. I have completed this stage and will be syncing the LD PCM audio next.

I'm not on my computer right now so can't confirm right now but the frame jumps in the Mondo BD did not affect the syncing process with the MGM 1998 DVD. I will post a screenshot of my FCP timeline tomorrow to show how I dealt with this issue.

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 (Edited)

PDB and I were working on a similar project to eurospec19. The US theatrical cut is our favorite version of the film too, so I wrote an Avisynth script cutting the Mondo BD to fit the old R1 DVD.  The plan was for one of us to use the lossy English mono on the DVD (resampled to 44.1kHz) as a guide track and edit the PCM to fit it, but I think real life caught up with both of us!

Here is my script.  It inserts black where there are alternate takes or where shots run on far longer on the DVD.

BD=DGSource().BilinearResize(720,480)


Blank=BlankClip(BD, length=5, color=$000000).KillAudio()
Blank2=BlankClip(BD, length=104, color=$000000).KillAudio()
Blank3=BlankClip(BD, length=154, color=$000000).KillAudio()#lean forward with cigar
Blank4=BlankClip(BD, length=101, color=$000000).KillAudio()#fat man pulling back
Blank5=BlankClip(BD, length=388, color=$000000).KillAudio()#missing shots
Blank6=BlankClip(BD, length=157, color=$000000).KillAudio()#Tuco's scream
Blank7=BlankClip(BD, length=836, color=$000000).KillAudio()#end

BD2= \
BD.Trim(46,1943) ++ \
BD.Trim(1942,4290) ++ \
BD.Trim(4287,8332).Loop(11,8332,8332) ++ \
BD.Trim(8333,8420) ++ \
BD.Trim(8431,18337) ++ \
BD.Trim(18337,27526) ++ \
BD.Trim(27528,27592) ++ \
BD.Trim(27594,27709) ++ \
BD.Trim(27887,35091) ++ \
BD.Trim(35093,35776) ++ \
BD.Trim(35778,38945) ++ \
BD.Trim(38947,39298) ++ \
BD.Trim(39298,39299) ++ \
BD.Trim(39299,52741) ++ \
BD.Trim(52741,55198).Loop(13,55198,55198) ++ \
BD.Trim(55199,58874) ++ \
BD.Trim(59278,61624) ++ \
BD.Trim(61626,61689) ++ \
BD.Trim(61698,62547) ++ \
BD.Trim(62618,66805) ++ \
BD.Trim(72988,78811) ++ \
BD.Trim(78811,80513) ++ \
BD.Trim(80513,85404) ++ \
BD.Trim(88647,90039) ++ \
BD.Trim(90041,101224).Loop(36,101224,101224) ++ \
BD.Trim(103503,114152).FadeIn(16).Loop(29,114152,114152) ++ \
BD.Trim(114153,120103) ++ \
BD.Trim(120105,123961) ++ \
BD.Trim(125084,136930) ++ \
BD.Trim(136932,141918) ++ \
BD.Trim(141920,142123) ++ \
Blank ++ \
BD.Trim(142124,143003) ++ \
BD.Trim(143284,143685)  ++ \
BD.Trim(143687,143780) ++ \
BD.Trim(143783,143971) ++ \
BD.Trim(143974,144789) ++ \
Blank2 ++ \
BD.Trim(143004,143197) ++ \
BD.Trim(143199,143283) ++ \
BD.Trim(145612,145883) ++ \
BD.Trim(146949,147366) ++ \
BD.Trim(144790,144942) ++ \
BD.Trim(144945,145066) ++ \
BD.Trim(145072,145275) ++ \
BD.Trim(145279,145375) ++ \
BD.Trim(145379,145610) ++ \
BD.Trim(145885,146149) ++ \
BD.Trim(146153,146313) ++ \
BD.Trim(146320,146386) ++ \
BD.Trim(146388,146945) ++ \
BD.Trim(147369,147920) ++ \
Blank3 ++ \
Blank4 ++ \
BD.Trim(148022,149152) ++ \
BD.Trim(149158,155597) ++ \
BD.Trim(158099,158483) ++ \
BD.Trim(158483,170208) ++ \
BD.Trim(170210,171366) ++ \
BD.Trim(171377,176827) ++ \
BD.Trim(176829,189380) ++ \
BD.Trim(190776,206328) ++ \
BD.Trim(206328,206494) ++ \
BD.Trim(206494,206844) ++ \
BD.Trim(207750,208144) ++ \
BD.Trim(208145,210057) ++ \
BD.Trim(210131,210384) ++ \
BD.Trim(210384,210593) ++ \
BD.Trim(210593,211869) ++ \
BD.Trim(211872,211964).Loop(3,211964,211964) ++ \
BD.Trim(211965,212075) ++ \
BD.Trim(212077,214136) ++ \
BD.Trim(214136,217264) ++ \
BD.Trim(217267,219638) ++ \
BD.Trim(219653,229952) ++ \
BD.Trim(229952,239116) ++ \
BD.Trim(239119,239277) ++ \
BD.Trim(239279,239882).Loop(3,239882,239882) ++ \
BD.Trim(239883,244746) ++ \
Blank5 ++ \
BD.Trim(244747,248624) ++ \
Blank6 ++ \
BD.Trim(248781,0) ++ \
Blank7

DVD=Mpeg2source().TFM().TDecimate()


StackVertical(DVD,BD2)

I have some color-corrected clips taken from the UK BD that I spliced in to cover the blank sections, but the results of the color correction are hit and miss.  Wherever possible I avoided replacing material from the Mondo BD, so there are a few compromises, as you can see.

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Chewtobacca said:

PDB and I were working on a similar project to eurospec19. ..  The plan was for one of us to then use the lossy English mono on the DVD (resampled to 44.1kHz) as a guide track and edit the PCM to fit it..."

 

Chewtobacca, I've done this bit (although I did in 48kHz) and PDB should have a copy by now, so maybe you can finish it off.

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Did you sync the PCM twice once to the DVD and once to the Mondo BD?  What program did you use?

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I'm planning to upsample the LD audio to 48kHz and then sync to the DVD mp3 48kHz audio.

Why would you resample the DVD audio to 44.1kHz? Are you planning to keep the LD audio at 44.1kHz?

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The laserdisc PCM was synced once, using cool edit pro to match it with the English 5.1 downmix audio track that had previously been synced to the mondo blu.

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 (Edited)

bavaleone said:

Chewtobacca said:

PDB and I were working on a similar project to eurospec19. ..  The plan was for one of us to then use the lossy English mono on the DVD (resampled to 44.1kHz) as a guide track and edit the PCM to fit it..."

 

Chewtobacca, I've done this bit (although I did in 48kHz) and PDB should have a copy by now, so maybe you can finish it off.

bavaleone said:

The laserdisc PCM was synced once, using cool edit pro to match it with the English 5.1 downmix audio track that had previously been synced to the mondo blu.

I'm confused.  If you have synced the audio to match the English track that was synced to the Mondo BD, then you haven't already "done this bit".   If you have also synced it to match the original R1 MGM DVD of the US theatrical, which is what I was referring to, then you haven't synced it once: you've synced it twice to two different releases.

 

Why would you resample the DVD audio to 44.1kHz? Are you planning to keep the LD audio at 44.1kHz?

Yes.  That's the reason.

 

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bavaleone said:

The laserdisc PCM was synced once, using cool edit pro to match it with the English 5.1 downmix audio track that had previously been synced to the mondo blu.

I'm confused.  If you have synced the audio to match the English track that was synced to the Mondo BD, then you haven't already "done this bit".   If you have also synced it to match the original R1 MGM DVD of the US theatrical, which is what I was referring to, then you haven't synced it once: you've synced it twice to two different releases.

 

 

Hmm, it's early in the morning, brain working slowly and now you've got me confused. Let's just say that the end result is that I've synced these two sources: the Mondo Blu-ray video with the original English mono audio track taken from the LD (with missing audio included from the 2002 English 5.1 downmix).

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It seems that you have synced the mono PCM to the Mondo BD, filling in the missing scenes with downmixed English 5.1 generated by Rigby Reardon's track.  That's nice, but I want the US theatrical cut rather than the Italian theatrical cut.

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 (Edited)

Here's a screenshot of the entire project (3 video files) on the timeline.

top (shaded) = MGM 1998 DVD

middle = Mondo BD

bottom = MGM SE BD

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/trailerparkboy/8aa2bec0-744b-4472-bd66-325610ce6b34_zps289a1ec5.jpg

 

Stretched frame issue is captured within the individual frame of ProRes HQ. It did not affect the frame count when syncing the Mondo BD to the MGM 1998 DVD:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/trailerparkboy/GBU-FCP7-timeline-02_zpsc6d2bbc0.jpg

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Lil Brutto, are you working with bavaleone?

Lil Brutto said:Stretched frame issue is captured within the individual frame of ProRes HQ.

I don't understand this sentence.

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 (Edited)

I'm actually working solo on this. bavaleone kindly shared his audio file with me though. I'm syncing to the 98 DVD audio plus The Fort scene (both shown as a green band in the screenshots above) so my final product will be quite different.

I will upsample my LD PCM audio to 48kHz and then proceed with synchronization. For the fort scene, I have decided against using the DD2.0 track. Instead I have made a custom mono 2.0 WAV file using the 3 front channels (L,C,R) of the DTS audio. It needs to be attenuated a bit now since it's louder than the LD PCM.

In the 2nd screenshot above, you can see stretching at the bottom of the Mondo BD frame of Tuco reaching for his pistol (right side). You don't have that issue in the frame to the left (MGM DVD). Yet the number of frames is identical between the 2 sources for that particular segment of Tuco tumbling and crawling to his gun. Hope that clarifies things.