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‘Heir To The Jedi’ Duology

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It’s no secret that I thought TROS was garbage. It’s painfully mediocre and unimaginative. I feel it’s a very poor note on which to end the entire saga. I honestly feel that the story is better served to end with TLJ, thematically if not plot-wise. If that film makes the point that “they blow you up today, you’ll blow them up tomorrow,” having the Emperor “somehow” return with the largest fleet ever and need to be defeated again painfully literally doesn’t help. TROS does nothing to counter the idea that these things ebb and flow, with no true finality. Even Anakin’s voiceover suggests Rey needs to restore the balance as he did, necessarily temporarily. While the story’s themes were closed out in TLJ, TROS can’t even be said to have resolved the lingering plot! The First Order is immediately dwarfed by Palpatine’s “Final Order” apparently developed independently. The whole threat needing to be resolved is dredged up wholesale for this movie.

I digress. As I said, I think a TFA-TLJ duology is greater in total than a TFA-TLJ-TROS trilogy. The only thing that would make that feel weird is the trilogy structure the audience expects. As an absolute minimum, all one would need to do is either do away with the opening crawls (and finding another way to set the story and political landscape up for TFA), or replace their “Episode” labels with something like “DUOLOGY TITLE - Part I - THE FORCE AWAKENS.”

However, I wonder what else could be done. Could bits and pieces of TROS be used anywhere? One idea would be to intercut star destroyers being taken down across the galaxy with Luke’s “I will not be the last Jedi” speech, or otherwise imply the First Order will be taken down by civilians rising up via an ending montage sequence, though still ending on broom boy.

Imagine this as a two-issue comic depicting Luke being sought out from exile and spending himself to reinvigorate hope in the galaxy. It’s not Episode VII or anything, just a story. It would be in keeping with at least TLJ to not even be totally sure it’s legit, but the archetypes would feel right. And it’d get around the problem of “okay but they would have made a trilogy.”

Initiating self-destruct countdown…

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This is an interesting idea!

Some ideas popped into my head regarding what could be implemented from TROS, but honestly less might be more, depending on how much you cut from TFA and TLJ. I think putting the TROS montage of the Star Destroyers in between Leia saying “We have everything we need” and broom boy is enough really.

For the titling, you could just make it, STAR WARS: HEIR TO THE JEDI - Part I & II.

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I really love this idea.

Intercutting the Star destroyers going down is great. I might actually consider a couple clips of the “they’re just people” moment, although if it detracts too much from Luke’s moment, it might not work.

Part of me wishes some of the Rey/Kylo stuff from TROS was salvageable because there was some compelling DNA there, but in this duology, it just wouldn’t be necessary.

I don’t know that you could use much more than that.

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 (Edited)

An eye-opening post in terms of how to look at these sequels and mitigate the gut punch that was TROS.

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I really support this approach, in that TROS was an absolute nosedive. However, it does feel to me like we need some kind of traditional climax at the end for as many characters and themes as possible, rather than implying it with narration over broad imagery, if possible.

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 (Edited)

Hi all,

I love Hal’s thinking here as I’ve spent the last few days wondering how hard it would be to make one big ‘epic’ MOVIE from TLJ and TROS…at least from a narrative perspective (I’m not initially considering the look and feel of the 2 movies might juxtapose each other considering that RJ and JJ have completely different stylistic approaches to the look, pace and overall cut of their respective movies)

What fuelled this idea, is what I consider to be the problem with TROS.

I’ve said it elsewhere on this forum, but I believe TROS’s biggest issue is not what is in the movie, but what ISN’T…

I assume there’s a 3 hour(ish) cut that existed once before it was edited down to what we ended up getting (whether it was a deliberate move to increase the pace of the movie, or certain plot points just didn’t work at a script level and so the only way to save the movie was cut it all away?..whatever, I digress)

Anyhow, I was upsetting myself at the possibility that Disney will never release any substantial/juicy deleted scenes and how the talented fan editors may never have enough ‘meat’ to make the movie better/more complete.

That left me thinking that the only way TROS may be salvageable is in MORE cutting. Cutting out all the dead-end plot threads and the leaps and holes in logic and plot, which even if that were done successfully, would leave us all with a rather short movie!

So, that potentially being the case, I wondered if on a thematic level it might be possible to combine TLJ and TROS into one mega-movie so that the relentless pace of TROS is offset by the slower burn of TLJ.

Plot elements that have been (or are in the process of being) incorporated into Fan edits of TLJ would serve as some the most effective connective tissue between the two movies, helping them join as one.

It might be that the two projects simply CAN’T be joined cohesively, and if that’s the case then that’s just an unfortunate outcome of not having the right pieces to work with from what Lucasfilm gave us…but if some fairly aggressive cutting/re-working of both movies could enable us to salvage a more satisfying hybrid then that might help us get over some the disappointment we have felt since TROS released.

Initial thoughts:-

As much as I feel it would be less jarring to potentially inter-weave different scenes between the two movies, I can’t see how any MAJOR scenes could be reworked chronologically due to differences in costume, hair etc, so all the main plot lines would pretty much have to run in a linear fashion.

The unfortunate outcome of this, is that at some point you are pretty much forced to consider a ‘1 year later’ splash screen approach, to account for the obvious time jump. This is decidedly ‘un-Star Wars’ but unless it’s better to just ignore it and let the audience do the math, it’s going to be a matter of deciding whether we break from stylistic tradition and look at the project as it’s own entity and accept such compromises.

Anyhow, this is me just jumping on Hal’s bandwagon, and really it’s just an unprocessed idea for a project, rather than something I’ve really thought through in any detail (ie what elements across both movies stay, go, get reworked etc in order to accommodate them being joined cohesively…if they even can be)

I’d love to hear others opinions, especially those with the talent and eye for editing who might be able to be determine whether this is a non-starter , or whether there might be a narrative pathway to making it work?

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First idea (not accounting for any adjustments that might have to be made within the bulk of TLJ)

Disclaimer: There are going to be LOTS of errors and holes here. I’m working blind due to not being intimately familiar with the content of each scene in TROS. Some of these may not work once scene specific dialogue is considered.

  1. As per Poppasketti’s current work on having Palpatine’s ‘Find me’ come through the radio on Crait,

Resistence escapes.

TLJ doesn’t end here. We follow Kylo for a bit here.

First order of business? Reforge his mask.

(logic:- Kylo after being embarrassed by Luke on Crait, finds it easier to deal with the scheming minions from behind the mask’

Leads to:-

His ‘War council scene’:- somehow replace him heading out on his mission to find Rey to him actually heading out to Mustafar in search of the wayfinder.

Cue his slaughter scene and recovery of the wayfinder (He doesn’t need his mask to cut up random aliens alongside stormtrooper grunts, plus he’s trying showcasing his badassery to rebuild his credibility and demonstrate that he’s a hands on murderer kind of guy 😃 )

Cut to:-

A Rey and/or Resistance scene.

Probably Rey meditating/ doing her trials course?

(issues here:- making it clear there’s been a significant time jump…repaired saber etc)

To be continued as I spitball further ideas

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@Hal 9000 Do you plan on ending the duology with Rey going to the Lars homestead and taking on the surname of Skywalker?

The unfortunate reality of the Star Wars prequel and Disney trilogies is that they will always be around. Forever. They will never go away. It can never be undone.

I also prefer to be referred to as “TNT”, not “Freezing”.

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TLJ certainly has the emotional/narrative heart of the trilogy, but it’s worth considering that ESB has a similar role in the OT - ROTJ “only” adds the throne room scene as far as character development.

The hardest thing about adding anything to TLJ is that it is already overstuffed with worthwhile character development and story; ideally you’d be adding a 5th act to a 4 act movie.

These are the two ideas that came to mind, might be too much though.

-There is a conference room scene about the state of the galaxy in TROS that I wish was in TFA, like the one in ANH. It has a different kylo mask and the exegol fleet, so it likely wouldn’t have anything left once you cut that out.

-What if the fleet arriving at exegol could be used? What if they actually answered Leias call in the end? It would be hard to work it with the millennium falcon front and center…

Regardless, broom boy is the ending to the trilogy for me.

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 (Edited)

Regardless, broom boy is the ending to the trilogy for me.

Broom boy at the end of the Trilogy is a great idea! One might even say it’s beautifully poetic?!

The central narrative from 1-9 has ended, but here we get a natural hand off to a new generation, a potential galaxy of unknown’s, not personally involved or affected by our established lineage of heroes, but none the less inspired to rise up and branch off on adventures anon.

I know that is exactly the intent of it being the ‘Iris out’ in TLJ, but as an end to a trilogy/saga:-IT’S BLOODY PERFECT!!!

(Applause)

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Yeah, this is a spitball idea; I don’t expect anything to really materialize from it. But I feel if TLJ highlights how things repeat and cycle through and democratizes responsibility, what TROS has to offer feels superfluous. Just end this two-issue comic sequel to Star Wars with an ellipses.

Initiating self-destruct countdown…

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Oh geez, this is nuts!!! Honestly, my gut reaction was “thanks, I hate it,” but the more I think about it, the mor I’m intrigued by the idea!

I think they only way it could work (for me at least) would be if it was more of a 3-in-2 edit a la edits of The Hobbit. I’ve accepted TROS for what it is and there’s too much in it at this point that I would miss if nearly all of it was cut.

I think TROS: Ascendant could still be a conservative edit that only tries to remove the significantly offensive material, while a 3-in-2 duology has the potential to be truly radical.

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This hypothetical project would not supplant TROS:A.

Initiating self-destruct countdown…

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I think they only way it could work (for me at least) would be if it was more of a 3-in-2 edit a la edits of The Hobbit. I’ve accepted TROS for what it is and there’s too much in it at this point that I would miss if nearly all of it was cut.

The Hobbit 3 into 2 was exactly where I was at when I let my mind wander into the prospect of merging TLJ and TROS into one.

Of course ‘The Hobbit’ for all of it’s flaws (of which there were many!) at least benefitted from being shot back to back and having a singular vision and so at least ‘fan’ editors don’t have to contend with cutting around footage filmed and constructed potentially years apart by different directors, cinematographers, editors, costume designers etc etc etc

Hence the challenge now faced by editors who might be starting to think about the viability of this project (or similar projects of their own)

The lack of vision for this trilogy exhibited by Lucasfilm is now painfully apparent and I have no doubts some of the guys and girls here will work their magic and make some wonderful things out of it…but it’s definitely going to be a tough challenge to extract all the right pieces and reassemble them back cohesively

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 (Edited)

One of the biggest things TROS brings to the table is that it finally gives us an adventure with all three of our leads, so ending the story with TLJ doesn’t feel right from that perspective. Even if TLJ gives a more poignant ending, it definitely leaves things hanging in an unsatisfying way for the Saga.

So for me the skeleton plot of TROS would have to remain. This would of course mean that a TLJ/TROS mashup would be at least 3.5 or 4 hours, far too long imo.

How about this: Cut down TFA and append most of TLJ to it.

Do this by focusing the story almost entirely on Rey/Kylo Ren.

EPISODE VII

The Crawl establishes that a mysterious First Order has destroyed the New Republic and that General Organa, in her search for Luke, has identified Jakku as a nexus of Force activity, with the First Order also identifying this place as being of special significance (a Vergence in the Force perhaps). Open on Rey in the desert, going about her day. She finds BB-8, then we get Kylo and Poe’s interrogation. Rey takes the droid into town, meets Finn (the first time we are introduced to him), and they escape in the Falcon. They meet Han and they immediately go to meet Maz (no Rathtars at all). Meanwhile Snoke scene. Rey has visions from the lightsaber and runs into the woods, directly into Kylo who has been waiting for her. He knocks her out and she wakes up on Starkiller. The attack on the castle isn’t shown. Rey is interrogated (where we learn that the Empire had the other half of the map), and Kylo talks to Snoke. Rey escapes and ends up on the hangar wall as an alarm is triggered. In the control room, Hux sees fighters attacking the base, and they raise shields to prevent their escape. Kylo senses Han. Rey runs into the gang immediately after, and they go to see the fight. Han helps out, confronts Kylo, dies. Finn and Kylo fight, then Rey pulls the lightsaber to her. It is activated in midair, slicing Kylo’s face. As she prepares to fight him, Poe destroys the Oscillator, which lowers the shields and starts to wreck the area. The ground splits open between the combatants. They escape the planet, which is destroyed. After the tarmac and mourning, Leia is notified that R2 has additional information, allowing them to find Luke. Rey leaves, finds Luke.

Hopefully this sequence of events can be cut down to less than an hour.

In the second half of the film, Rey is disillusioned by Luke and the Resistance is on the Run. The story again follows Rey as she learns of the Jedi’s failure and her connection to Ben. It continues through her confrontation with Kylo and the statement of her being a nobody. Finn and Rose’s subplot is cut, as is much of Poe’s plot. The Supremacy breaks in half, and then we see Yoda and the burning of the tree. The iris out happens here. Roll credits.

EPISODE VIII

The second film starts on the wide shot of Crait. The Resistance makes their last stand, Luke appears, Rey and Kylo have a final connection. She closes the Falcon ramp. Popasketti’s edit of the scene where Palpatine’s voice calls to Kylo. Blackness.

STAR WARS. Opening crawl. It is one year later, and the Resistance is reinvigorated after the legend of Luke has spread. As Kylo searches for Palpatine, The Resistance is attempting to recruit powerful allies in their fight, and on a tip they are looking for a man identified only by a piece of jewelry on the casino planet of Canto Bight.

After the crawl, we have the mission of Rose and Finn. They fail to get the high roller but are rescued by DJ and wreck the town. DJ lays some wisdom on Finn about war profiteers and not to court the wealthy and powerful as allies.

Kylo rages and finds the map to Exegol, going there. The film plays out much as it does in the theatrical, plus any deleted scenes if they are available. The day is saved by regular people, not the powerful allies they were hoping for. The film ends with Broom Boy.

JEDIT: Actually, moving the Crait sequence from TLJ to the beginning of TROS would probably benefit any edits, not just a duology.

What a grand and intoxicating innocence. How could you be so naive? There is no escape. Come, lay down your weapons. It is not too late for my mercy.
Episode 9 Rewrite THE SHATTERED SWORD (Complete!)
The Force Awakens Restructured (V3 Released!) and The Starlight Project (WORKPRINT RELEASED!)

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Maybe you could somehow create an force vision for Luke on TJL shpwing some bits like Rey training, resistance winning the battle, Rey Killing Kylo etc.

BTW, i like the idea of the duology with TLJs open ending.

You could still use Episodes though in my opinion. Maybe you could use T Zahn titles as a nod 😄 lets Say, “the spectre of the past” and “the vision of the future” 😉

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I had a thought.

I’m sure there are a good few of us who don’t REALLY need something like this,

But would the below be of any use to help potential editors start structuring an imaginary cut?

I’ve kept it short because I don’t want to go to the effort of a ‘shot to shot’ commentary for the whole movie if I’m going to break any rules??

I’ll post it up for now, and if I have to take it down, I’m here standing by to delete it if need be:

so 1) If I’m breaking rules, I’ll delete it

  1. If the idea isn’t really helpful without visual reference, I’ll get rid just the same and let the experts do their thing once TROS gets it’s home release.

Anyhow:-

TROS

Scene 1:

Crawl….

*Camera pans down 3 x Tie Fighters fly toward a FO Star Destroyer and Mustafar.

*Cut to – Ground level Kylo cutting down natives (only storm troopers – no knights of Wren)

Fight ends – (no dialogue)

*Hard cut to shot of stone case containing wayfinder.

Kylo takes it and inspects.

*Scene fades to space, Kylo’s TIE approaching Red Nebula.

3rd person sequence of Kylo piloting through the Nebula

Close up of Kylo piloting > Close Up of Wayfinder plugged into TIE systems

*External shot of space – Nebula in distance. Kylo’s TIE seemingly drops out of hyperspace. Camera pans to follow TIE as it enters Exogol atmosphere.

*Cut to – Establishing shot of Geometric structure – Kylo’s TIE approaches in shot.

*Cut to – Ground level pan up, Kylo now on foot, walks toward amera and ignites crossguard saber.

Reverse shot – Kylo enters structure

*Cut to – Middle distance, Kylo stand upon circular stone lift and it decends, revealing huge Sith statues.

Mid shot of Kylo reacting to:-

(FIRST DIALOGUE!! 4mins in ) = Palpatine’s exposition.

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Here’s an idea. If you want to end with TLJ but feel that there isn’t enough closure, you could do one of those montages that are at the end of some movies where we see an image or short scene of each main character and a text that describes what happened to them later in their lives. That way you could use shots from TROS or wherever you want and come up with a satisfying conclusion for each character.

And then perhaps throw in one of these including all the actors from the saga. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enAygqfhjCc

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Not to speak for anyone else here, but when talking about ending on ‘Broom boy’ I wasn’t referring to having the entirety of TLJ be the end of the saga, I simply meant close out the saga on the ‘Broom Boy’ sequence/shot.

The logic being that our central characters have ended their stories…but that doesn’t mean there can’t be more, and so to end the saga with the promise that others can/will take up the mantle and have infinite, as-yet undetermined adventures of their own is quite a nice way to close out the story.

(I’m not talking about Broom boy specifically…Broom Boy is just the metaphor or allegory for the idea)

TLJ is definitely a ‘middle’ movie, there’s no way you could close out the entire narrative where it left off, it’s too open ended, but when discussing the possibility of a fan made ‘hybrid’ which combines whatever elements can be worked from across TLJ and TROS into one narrative, there is certainly scope to close out that project by incorporating Broom boy.

…Or maybe there isn’t? but that’s going to be the fun of exploring what can and can’t be made out of it? 😃

I wish I had the skills…well certainly the technical refinement required to get stuck into it myself!

I can chop and drop basic edits all the live-long day, but what some of big boys here can achieve is a whole different level of skill that I just don’t have the time, patience or equipment to hone. I wish I did but I just don’t.

The only thing I can really contribute to this community is ideas and concepts…hopefully that have some form of narrative sense or that serve characters, however when working within the limitations of only having the source material to work with, there just aren’t infinite possibilities to fabricate the necessary connective tissue required to realise these concepts…and you can only explore that once you get into the edit, so since I lack the skills, I’ll bow to the knowledge of those that do.

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Man … I know the pain there Hal. I like the idea in theory, it’s going to be all about the execution. TLJ was certainly a “middle” movie that does leave so much up in the air.

I too shall ponder on this, but will be very curious if there is a good amount of deleted scenes to work with to either help out TROS or with this concept.

Do NOT self-destruct!