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Harry Potter *Spoilers* (Serious Discussions Only, No Flaming) — Page 2

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Sessler, I'm busy trying to fuck up Fists_of_Mandalore over at theforce.net cos he keeps flaming me.

Remind later on to give you a beating, right?
"A Jedi can feel the force flow through him".
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Just stay over there at TFN and we'll all be better for it okay? Thanks.
"I don't mind if you don't like my manners. I don't like them myself. They're pretty bad. I grieve over them during the long winter evenings."
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I've beaten him, he's left now.

so are you ready for your beating??
"A Jedi can feel the force flow through him".
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Listen, little boy, I don't want another thread to go off topic because of your incessant and rampant acts of ignorance and stupidity.

You're looking to pick a fight, or whatever you want to call what you are trying to do, in every thread by saying all kinds of stupid shit and its really getting old.

And those that are playing along and acting stupid themselves are just as guilty if not guiltier.
"I don't mind if you don't like my manners. I don't like them myself. They're pretty bad. I grieve over them during the long winter evenings."
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Originally posted by: ricarleite

But regarding those Harry Potter books, I'd rather read good old Kafka, thank you very much, no matter how much those crappy teenage fantasy book sell.



I havn't read the Harry Potter books or Kafka. But I can tell you this: If the Potter books are anything like the Potter movies, they certainly aren't crappy. Stop being so hard on them. These books have gotten alot of kids to read. They may not be great classic literature, but I believe they are good books.
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Originally posted by: TheSessler
Listen, little boy, I don't want another thread to go off topic because of your incessant and rampant acts of ignorance and stupidity.

You're looking to pick a fight, or whatever you want to call what you are trying to do, in every thread by saying all kinds of stupid shit and its really getting old.

And those that are playing along and acting stupid themselves are just as guilty if not guiltier.


Calm down Sessler. Don't play into his hand.
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This has beyond gotten out of hand. I think it's time Jay gets a PM.

I may not know the difference between Gryffendor and Slytherin, but Kev is spamming, trolling, and nearly every thing else one can do over the net to annoy people that isn't illiegal.

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Also, you can hardly consider fans of the books to be controlled by the media.

The first time I read Harry Potter was in 2000. I had heard it mentioned by a few people, but not alot about it, and as I didn't watch the news, no media input. So you could say I had reasonably low expectations and I still came out of the experience loving the books. Only after I had read them did I realize how big a deal it was in society and with other children.

Same way with Star Wars in 1995. Never heard about it, my dad said "you might like these" and bought me the VHS set, and only after I had fallen in love with the material did I realize how big a deal it was.
"I don't mind if you don't like my manners. I don't like them myself. They're pretty bad. I grieve over them during the long winter evenings."
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Originally posted by: TheSessler
BTW, what are your thoughts on who R.A.B. is?

I'm almost positive it has to be Regulus Black.


My girlfriend made that observation as well, and I happen to agree. To be honest, I had no idea when I read because I'd forgotten Sirius's brother's first name. But it makes perfect sense.

And to those people who dislike Harry Potter because it's insanely popular... this is a message board devoted to Star Wars for crying out loud! I don't think I need to say anything more than that. And also, simply because they are current (and popular) doesn't mean that someday they won't be regarded as great literature alongside Tolkien's work. I'm not saying it will. I have no idea. It's still just a possibility. Even the most revered works were new at some time, and a lot of them were scoffed at upon their release. And whether or not they are great literature, they are a fascinating read, and the continuity functions 100 times better than Star Wars. ^_^

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Also remember that Tolkien's work was regarded as "long-winded" and "ridiculous fantasy" by most upstanding critics until the 70s. Hardly considered "classics" when they were printed compared to today.
"I don't mind if you don't like my manners. I don't like them myself. They're pretty bad. I grieve over them during the long winter evenings."
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Were C.S. Lewis's works originally critically acclaimed, or did they take time to build an audience as well?

(Sorry, I just had to bump this thread. I couldn't stand to see it fall to 2nd page doom so soon!)

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Originally posted by: TheSessler
Also remember that Tolkien's work was regarded as "long-winded" and "ridiculous fantasy" by most upstanding critics until the 70s. Hardly considered "classics" when they were printed compared to today.


And now they're once again considered long winded. No offense to the Tolkienites here, but he just goes into WAY TOO MUCH detail.

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Not as long-winded as Faulkner, though...

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
Not as long-winded as Faulkner, though...


Never read Faulkner. What's he famous for again?

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His best-known novels are The Sound and the Fury (1929), As I Lay Dying (1930), Sanctuary (1931), Light in August (1932), Absalom, Absalom! (1936), The Unvanquished (1938), The Hamlet (1940), Intruder in the Dust (1948), Requiem for a Nun (1951), A Fable (1954; Pulitzer Prize), The Town (1957), The Mansion (1959), and The Reivers (1962; Pulitzer Prize). In addition to novels Faulkner published several volumes of short stories including These 13 (1931), Go Down, Moses (1942), Knight's Gambit (1949), and Big Woods (1955); and collections of essays and poems.

That was from Yahoo! reference. I've only read Light in August and The Unvanquished myself. He's a famous writer from Mississippi. His influences are quite heavy at my school, The University of Mississippi (or "Ole Miss"), and he used the town of Oxford (where the school is located) as the basis for the fictional town he used in most of his books. I'm not sure, but I think you're a little bit younger than me at least, so I'm sure you'll be forced to read him at some point in your academic career. He's a good writer, and his stories are interesting. It's just that this paragraph I'm writing is shorter than a lot of his sentences.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Wow. I must be illiterate, cause of all those, I've only heard of the Sound of Fury.

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I'm rereading HBP right now to see if I can catch something I may have missed before.
"I don't mind if you don't like my manners. I don't like them myself. They're pretty bad. I grieve over them during the long winter evenings."
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Well, Sessler, here's a little something I picked up. Blaise Zabini is mentioned during the sorting in Philosopher's Stone. And, except for that one sentence, his character is not mentioned again until Half-Blood Prince. Just something I noticed when re-reading the first book. I like how Rowling introduces characters, and you don't even know she's doing it, and who might not even do anything for several books. And it doesn't take away from the current story, because it's so off-hand, you don't even realize it until the second time you read. Plus, it shows that she really knows what she's doing and has a lot of the characters and situations in her head from the beginning.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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I completed reading Harry Potter & The Half-Blood prince last night after juggling it for three days with my busy schedule. First, and foremost, I'm glad to see J.K. Rowling return to form. This book was, for me, the best in a series where, with the notable exception of Book 5, each sequel tops its predecessor.

My wife and I both agreed after reading Book 5 that Harry was still being written like an 11-year-old, and not a 15-year-old. In Year 6, we finally see Harry acting his age, and for that I'm an appreciative reader. Most teens are smarter and more mature than we give them credit. All the more so in the wizarding world, where most "come of age" at 17 and simultaneously get the equivalency of their college degree through the passing of their N.E.W.T.s. Wizards are positioned as simply being more mature than muggles on the whole. Add all the trials and horrors Harry has personally faced, and his attitude and manner of speech didn't fit his character in Book 5. Now that is all gone and he talks and acts like a young man of his age who's seen the stuff he's seen. That made me want to give a damn about his character.

Moreover, without being force-fed angst as we were last go-round, I think the angst Harry does portray in this book is much more believable. Mainly, because he is confident in himself and his beliefs, and is bothered when nobody listens to him. It's not this gut-wrenching whineyness (like Anakin in Ep II) but rather a frustration with authority. Without having to hit us over the head by saying this, it is clear that Harry recognizes what he does and what he doesn't know. Moreover, he knows he is right about certain things he believes, and is frustration stems from those around him who refuse to listen.

He knew Malfoy was up to something really bad.
He knew Malfoy was in league with Voldemort.
He knew Snape was not to be trusted.

Maybe more has yet to be revealed, and certainly Dumbledore knew more than he let on. Dumbledore's actions most certainly will have had a purpose by the time Book 7 is told, but it doesn't take away that Harry was, on many counts, absolutely right in his assumptions.

The head-scratching questions we'll be left with are:
Will Harry, Ron and (especially) Hermione return to Hogwarts to pass their N.E.W.T.s? Or are they really dropping out of school to hunt the remaining
  • Horcruxes and Voldemort?
  • Who is R.A.B.? Regulus Black? Or maybe Burke or Borgin (I looked for mention of their first names but couldn't find them)?
  • Is Dumbledore really dead at the hands of Snape? And was this his plan all along? Or is there more than meets the eye? Is Dumbledore going to pull a Gandalf? Or and Obi-Wan? Or is he dead as fried chicken? Or something else entirely?

    For those detractors of Harry Potter, I have to ask, have you actually picked up the books and read them? Or does your opinion merely come from a movie adaptation you don't happen to like? Or does your opinion merely come from hearing the opinions of others? Others who, quite probably, have dubious reasons for vocalizing dislike for the story.

    There's nothing lazier than making your mind up about a story you've refused to read yourself.
    • I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
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    Good review, ADM. Personally, I loved Order of the Phoenix as well, and I never really minded Harry's temper tantrums. After all that crap from Umbridge, I was ready to throw something as well. And that's probably the reason I liked it so much was because Umbridge actually made me really, really angry, and the whole experience was like being hit with a heavy rubber club. Not only was no one listening to Harry, but if he even tried to say anything, his situation got even worse. In a way, it was kind of like one of those anti-utopian societies.

    The appeal of Half-Blood Prince is how Rowling makes these things somewhat ambiguous. In the second chapter, I was shocked at Snape's admissions. Rowling has done great things with that character through the audience. She spends most of the first book trying to convince you he's evil, and then the next four books trying to convince you that he's a complete ass but, at his core, he has his priorities in the right place. Plus, like the other characters in the book (besides Harry), you can't help but believe that Dumbledore has some fail-safe logic to trust Snape. So I did my best to try and convince myself that Dumbledore was right and that Snape was just playing as Voldemort's follower even though the evidence continued to mount to the contrary. I had no doubt that Dumbledore would not survive this book, but I was surprised that it was Snape who cast the finishing blow. I almost expected it to be a joke at the end, some kind of test or trick.

    I'm going to read the book again, but, now that I've had a chance to step back and think about it, I don't know if I believe the hype that Half-Blood Prince is the best book. As Part 6 in a 7 part series, it does very well. But as an individual book, it seems to lack an element that ties everything together. You would think it's the Half-Blood Prince element since that's the title of the book, but, if you really think about it, what was really the significance of the whole Half-Blood Prince storyline? It gives us a little more insight into Snape's past, but not nearly as much as Chapter 2 does by itself. The background on Tom Riddle, though, was done very well, and I extremely enjoyed it. However, it isn't until the last 100 pages or so that the plot really starts to come together. Up until then, it just seems to be floating in between the Half-Blood Prince, chasing after Malfoy, and who's dating whom. It's a lot like Philosopher's Stone in that it takes a while for the real plot to get off the ground. I did like how they switched things up a bit by having Snape be the new Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher. The special guest star teacher of the year was getting so cliched that it took me completely by surprise, and I loved it.

    But, like I said, it is great as Part 6 of 7. You learn a lot more about Voldemort/Tom Riddle, horcruxes. The relationships between the characters continue to develop, and Dumbledore's death has set the stage for Harry to take matters into his own hands as a hero (which is why I knew Dumbledore would die).

    I'm not sure why you put the "especially" after Hermione, ADM. Unless I've forgotten, I don't see any reason why Hermione would drop out as opposed to Harry and Ron. Harry has the only strong reason. But I think he will be at the school for at least some amount of time simply because "Year 7" wouldn't make much sense if he was not in his seventh year at Hogwarts. Plus, I'm dying to see a graduation ceremony. It's bugged me forever wondering what they do to celebrating graduating students. I've had people suggest the Regulus Black theory to me already, but Borgin or Burke is an interesting theory too.

    And I agree with your assessment of Harry Potter haters. I should know because I was one once. I let the "too cool for it" opinion as well as parodies shape my opinion of what Harry Potter was like, and, from that perspective, it seemed really stupid. A dorky-looking kid with a lightning-shaped scar does magic tricks and gets himself in all kinds of random little adventures. It didn't sound like very compelling reading. I'm glad I got my nose out of the air and decided to try it.

    There is no lingerie in space…

    C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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    Halfway thru the book @ this point. Was already aware of the spoilers, but can only read so fast, since I've started my new job, which also requires an awful lot of reading.

    Princess Leia: I happen to like nice men.
    Han Solo: I'm a nice man.

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    Originally posted by: Gaffer TapeI'm not sure why you put the "especially" after Hermione, ADM. Unless I've forgotten, I don't see any reason why Hermione would drop out as opposed to Harry and Ron. Harry has the only strong reason.


    I should clarify what I meant ... Ron and Hermione left me with the distinct impression that they were dropping out with Harry to go on the hunt for Voldemort. The part about them being past the point of no return and being in it all the way. Ron clearly isn't much for schoolwork anyway, so it's no surprise that he'll leave. But will Hermione give up all she's worked for to follow Harry to the bitter end? That's what I was getting at.

    I'm still waiting for one other twist. I keep hoping Percy is actually an informant in the employ of the OotP, letting them know what the Ministry of Magic is up to. I kinda expected to learn that in this book, but alas, nothing. My reason is, we've seen more Slytherin-like behavior out of Percy than Gryffindor-like behavior. Percy has yet to show why he's a Gryffindor and not some arrogant prat out for his own gain. And there's no better way to convince your enemy that you're with them than to disown your own family if they don't hold the same ideals.

    But maybe this won't happen at all. Who knows? Book 7 looks like it'll be another brick.

    I'm really starting to view this book as the "Empire Strikes Back" of the series. Many of the themes and archetypes are similar, and the cliffhanger ending, that's the kicker. I just don't want Book 7 to be the "Return of the Jedi" of the series. I want it to be the "Return of the King" instead.
    I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.