Regarding the credits. The font SirJonah used is fairly close, but I think in the end each letter will have to be adjusted individually to match an accurate source. Is the font in the credits of the GOUT accurate to the theatrical release? Or were they for some reason altered by the time they did the transfer?
Darth Lucas said:
Regarding the credits. The font SirJonah used is fairly close, but I think in the end each letter will have to be adjusted individually to match an accurate source. Is the font in the credits of the GOUT accurate to the theatrical release? Or were they for some reason altered by the time they did the transfer?
You're right about having to adjust each and every letter individually to make everything fit perfectly -- but I will not be doing that! If someone wants to try that, it's up to them.
I have a perfect transcript now of the credits and I am in the process now of re-creating it, section by section, column by column. It's about a 95% fit to the GOUT credits (which are distorted, by the way -- I've tried to correct it as best I can). Optical kerning looks like a better fit for the letters than metric.
I will do a final rendered sequence and hand over all my files (PSDs, AEP) and if Harmy or anyone else wants to tinker with it, they can!
I've always wondered how does on go about making a font file - or better yet, adjusting an existing one - that would seem like the best solution here.
Beber said:
Hi, Harmy.
OK, I just watched the whole thing and here's my feelings about it. I'm no expert, but hey, what the hell... To thank you for your hard work, the least I can do is to convey you my impressions.
Isn't this shot too bright, like the Obi-Wan encounter desert scene in SW v2.0 was?
http://www.heberger-image.fr/images/57721_ESB_WP_final.mkv_snapshot_01.42.04_2014.06.26_02.39.31_.jpg.html
I don't know, I think it seems pretty correct - it was this bright on the scan. Maybe it could be a tiny bit darker but it seems pretty well matched with the rest of the scene.
Isn't this all scene too dark?
http://www.heberger-image.fr/images/45175_ESB_WP_final.mkv_snapshot_01.35.20_2014.06.26_02.38.49_.jpg.html
Well, as you can see, there is no further detail in the blacks, so making it brighter isn't really an option.
I really enjoy the color timing you made, but isn't Yoda way greener in this scene than in the rest of the movie?
http://www.heberger-image.fr/images/98884_ESB_WP_final.mkv_snapshot_01.16.54_2014.06.26_02.40.55_.jpg.html
Yeah, I noticed that too - will have to look into it :-)
Actually, there are some scenes that tends to have more saturated colors than the rest of the film which has more neutral colors that I really like. In fact, I noticed some mismatches inside the Falcon cockpit:
http://www.heberger-image.fr/images/18301_ESB_WP_final.mkv_snapshot_00.39.18_2014.06.26_02.42.53_.jpg.html
http://www.heberger-image.fr/images/42840_ESB_WP_final.mkv_snapshot_00.39.30_2014.06.26_02.41.53_.jpg.html
Yeah, those are the unzoomed shots, which use the colors of the '97SE and I was having a pretty hard time matching them to the rest, sometimes I was more successful, sometimes less - I will probably give it another shot.
I really like what you made of this:
http://www.heberger-image.fr/images/58249_ESB_WP_final.mkv_snapshot_01.24.53_2014.06.26_02.39.57_.jpg.html
Yeah, me too :)
I suppose this is the best source you could get for this shot?
http://www.heberger-image.fr/images/27368_ESB_WP_final.mkv_snapshot_01.26.55_2014.06.26_02.38.06_.jpg.html
I'm not sure what you mean - this part of the shot it is directly from the BD and the 2nd part is from a very good 35mm scan - I'm pretty damn proud of how good this shot looks now. The only problem here is the blown out windows in the background but they are similarly blown out on the 35mm scan and it seems quite likely, they would have looked a lot like this in the theaters.
Aren't we supposed to barely see the edge of the window on top?
http://www.heberger-image.fr/images/61742_ESB_WP_final.mkv_snapshot_01.59.42_2014.06.26_02.59.01_.jpg.html
Well, for various reasons, I had to crop this a little more than the BD but only a tiny bit, so I doubt if you can't see the top edge here, you'd be able to see them in a cinema (and you certainly can't in the GOUT).
The last shot feels a little off to me. Isn't there a better looking one? Is it because of the transition to the ending credits that you don't have in a good shape yet?
http://www.heberger-image.fr/images/85061_ESB_WP_final.mkv_snapshot_02.00.21_2014.06.26_02.59.33_.jpg.html
Yeah, it's temporary - it was just put in from v1.0, precisely because of the credits.
Thanks again, Harmy. This is the best looking Empire Strikes Back I've seen so far. And I'm really glad you got rid of that annoying glowing bubble around the lightsabres in the duel scene.
Thanks :-)
@ Laserschwert
Sorry, I didn't consider that. Seems that the DVD era finally takes its toll :-(
Harmy said : I'm not sure what you mean - this part of the shot it is directly from the BD and the 2nd part is from a very good 35mm scan - I'm pretty damn proud of how good this shot looks now. The only problem here is the blown out windows in the background but they are similarly blown out on the 35mm scan and it seems quite likely, they would have looked a lot like this in the theaters.
Well, when watching the whole movie, some shots felt a little off to me, and since you're using various sources, I guess this is inevitable. And this one actually felt off to me in terms of definition (like the very last shot leading to the ending credits), grain, etc. in the continuity when comparing to the preceding scene.
EDIT : I forgot to mention this: how come the framing angles of the whole movie are curved?
Beber said:
how come the framing angles of the whole movie are curved?
That's from the film elements. Depending on how much the frame is cropped during the transfer, those would be trimmed out. In other words, the presence of those rounded edges is an indicator to film geeks that we're not seeing very much cropping, that's all.
Well, actually, to be honest, when I made the mask for the cropping, I made the edges round - they are not like that on the BD - I just like it this way, because it gives the whole thing a more film-like feel. I'm actually pretty surprised no-one asked about this before, I kept dreading it since the first workprint :-D
Gar! Tricked again! Not sure what I think about that, though. If they were cropped out, then re-added, then you're actually adding black curved elements somewhere out in the middle of the 35mm frame, which is odd.
Yeah, I realize that but it's more about the feeling you get from it - just like this whole thing isn't really about restoring the true original, because that just not possible using those means, but to make the viewer feel like they're watching the original as much as possible. Plus it is hardly adding them in the middle of the 35mm frame, more like 1% from where they were originally. Also, another thing I noticed is that cinema screens very often have rounded corners, so this is also meant to kind of simulate that.
So you're planning to keep it that way in the final release?
Yes, definitely. Not only because I like it - and I do - but also because the despecialized shots have already been rendered with the matte in place.
Beber said:
Well, when watching the whole movie, some shots felt a little off to me, and since you're using various sources, I guess this is inevitable. And this one actually felt off to me in terms of definition (like the very last shot leading to the ending credits), grain, etc. in the continuity when comparing to the preceding scene.
This can only be prevented by adding artificial grain throughout the whole movie which may improve the viewing experience but is destruction of picture information. I also expect that the difference is less obvious at higher bitrates.
OK, Harmy. It's not that I dislike it, but you didn't do it for Star Wars... And one could argue that if it's not a right angle, it's a wrong angle. Just for the joke... ;-)
n00b said:
Beber said:
Well, when watching the whole movie, some shots felt a little off to me, and since you're using various sources, I guess this is inevitable. And this one actually felt off to me in terms of definition (like the very last shot leading to the ending credits), grain, etc. in the continuity when comparing to the preceding scene.
This can only be prevented by adding artificial grain throughout the whole movie which may improve the viewing experience but is destruction of picture information.
Except that in the case I mentionned (Lando picking up Han and Leia for "lunch" with Vader as a secret guest), the continuity between the 2 scenes felt smoother in terms of definition and grain in v1.0.
Yes, because, the definition was worse over-all and grain was scrubbed by compression.
Well, I'm actually a bit surprised by the lack of reaction to some of the improvements seen in the workprint...
*off to make a comparison video... ;-)
Beber said:
Except that in the case I mentionned (Lando picking up Han and Leia for "lunch" with Vader as a secret guest), the continuity between the 2 scenes felt smoother in terms of definition and grain in v1.0.
Considering that the GOUT isn't even a proper SD release, I think we you should be glad about everything that looks perfect on a SD display - and still looks good at 1080p. The whole thing is the optimum one can achieve by using the existing sources.
SirJonah said:
Harmy said:
SirJonah: Cool, thanks, can't wait to see what you come up with :-)
Would you be so kind as to tell me what the exact font is to use. I probably already have it, but I want to make sure I use the right one! Thanks!
The credits for SW used "News Goth BT Bold" and I'd say TESB does too... I think the Empire credits are squeezed a bit more vertically, but if you could provide me with your After Effects file once you're finished with the text, I can take care of all that.
Kersh would be proud!
looking for HDTV of the Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith. Also HDTV of The Lord of the Rings trilogy
Harmy said:
Yeah, I realize that but it's more about the feeling you get from it - just like this whole thing isn't really about restoring the true original, because that just not possible using those means, but to make the viewer feel like they're watching the original as much as possible. Plus it is hardly adding them in the middle of the 35mm frame, more like 1% from where they were originally. Also, another thing I noticed is that cinema screens very often have rounded corners, so this is also meant to kind of simulate that.
If it's about simulating the cinema experience of the original then what are your feelings on adding some grain to compensate for the DNR'd look of the BD source footage?
Yes, we all know that adding fake grain technically destroys detail but not only can it trick the eye into perceiving a more detailed image, would it not be a closer simulation of the 1980 cinema experience than the BD footage as it stands?
George creates Star Wars.
Star Wars creates fans.
George destroys Star Wars.
Fans destroy George.
Fans create Star Wars.
Laserschwert said:
SirJonah said:
Harmy said:
SirJonah: Cool, thanks, can't wait to see what you come up with :-)
Would you be so kind as to tell me what the exact font is to use. I probably already have it, but I want to make sure I use the right one! Thanks!
The credits for SW used "News Goth BT Bold" and I'd say TESB does too... I think the Empire credits are squeezed a bit more vertically, but if you could provide me with your After Effects file once you're finished with the text, I can take care of all that.
Will do. Right now I'm halfway done and using "News Gothic MT" as I recreate everything in Photoshop. Do you happen to know what font is used for the ILM department headings starting with PRODUCTION AND MECHANICAL EFFECTS UNIT? It's got me scratching my head!
I still haven't had the time to check this out, but that image of the cloud city matte looks pretty nice. As do the uncropping of those cockpit shots, excellent work!
Are those rounded corners present throughout the whole film? I can't say I really agree with that decision, they look distracting to me. They look like the edges of the film, which would never be visible in the theater or on home media.
Star Trek: The Motion Picture DE - The Anti-DNR Fanedit
Duel (1971) - The Hybrid Cut
The Phantom of the Opera - 1925 Version Reconstruction - Rare Scores Collection - Roy Budd Score
I said it before and I'll say it again - the SW BDs, whatever their other problems (and there's a copious amount of them) certainly don't lack grain - there's plenty of it.
Here's a 1080p picture of the Kershner credit from one of N1's videos. The quality isn't very good but it should still be a better reference than the GOUT:
SirJonah said:
Do you happen to know what font is used for the ILM department headings starting with PRODUCTION AND MECHANICAL EFFECTS UNIT? It's got me scratching my head!
That's Futura... either Bold or something similar, like Heavy.
I'd happily take just your PSD with intact text layers once you're done. Don't bother with the logos (Dolby and MPAA) as I can use those from my SW credits (IF you guys want me to render the credits)
BTW, what's this about the Kershner credits? Those are just NewsGoth BT Bold like the rest...
ElectricTriangle said:
Are those rounded corners present throughout the whole film? I can't say I really agree with that decision, they look distracting to me. They look like the edges of the film, which would never be visible in the theater or on home media.
I just had a quick my look at the final workprint on my laptop, and in my opinion it does not seem distracting, in fact i would probably not have even noticed them without reading about them here, but i guess its all about what you prefer.
Looking forward to watching this on my tv later, perhaps the corners are more apparent on a big tv but its looking good from what i have checked so far, thanks for the upload Harmy.
