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I'm downloading as fast as I can and I'll tell you all my thoughts straight away.
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Harmy's THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK Despecialized Edition HD - V2.0 - MKV & AVCHD (Released) — Page 5
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Brilliant, guys, thanks :-)
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How anal do you want me to be? Should I just pick out what I look for to tell the difference between the SE and the original?
Example: you're not going to recomp all of the recomped speeders. But you could make that speeder that flies through the tripped walker's explosion not actually fly through it like the original mistakenly has him do. What about the ones that have interactive lighting, or the new smoke trails.
How far do you want to go on this?
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As much as I'd love to test these, I don't think I have enough knowledge to bring anything constructive to the table. I'm looking forward to the final results Harmy!
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Well, no I let most that was just cleaned up effects be. I didn't really touch the snow battle, I considered it for a while but when I saw the amount of shots and tried some out even, I decided not to. You can of course still give any suggestions and I'll consider them but I can't promise anything :-) I'm pretty much happy with the current level of despecialization, I just wanted to make sure I didn't forget anything that I wanted to do (like I did with the last CC window shot, which is now fixed in the project file).
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I have a system: I went through 005's comparisons and downloaded all the pictures of shots I considered doing and divided them into two folders "TO DO" and "TO MAYBE DO" and whenever I had a shot ready to put in the film, I moved the corresponding picture to a folder called "DONE." :-)
I already have the folders ready for SW and man, will that be much more of a challenge, almost three times more shots than for Empire.
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Hey Harmy,
Just finished my first viewing. Overall, it was fantastic. I'm not going to make a list of everything I love because it would be too long so I've made a few notes on some areas that stood out to me.
- I felt some of the Hoth scenes were a bit too blue. Mainly all the exterior scenes from when we first see the probe droid to when Han rescues Luke. Some of the scenes in this range seemed bluer than others and I think roughly a 50% mix between the GOUT and the Despecialized for those that are particularly blue would be about perfect.
- This is just a matter of personal preference, but I like the blue R2 in space, rather than the black. I know the black is technically Despecialized, but all it does is reproduce the visual error from the GOUT. To me, the Despecialized editions have always been more about removing the offensive and fake/out of place changes that were made in the special editions (Jabba, CG Cloud City entrance, Sarlaac beak, etc.) while preserving the technical improvements of the effects (ie. matte lines, see through spaceships, color suppression, etc.). If I want to watch Star Wars in its original form, I'll watch the GOUT, but for my go-to version I'd much rather watch one that includes the technical improvements while at the same time still feels like the original.
- Han's "vest" when being put into carbon freeze. For the same reason as R2 above, I like the the "vestless" Han better. I know it's just a shadow and not really his vest, but it is still noticeable and creates what appears to be a continuity error. Even though my brain knows it's not, my eyes still notice although not as much as the black R2.
Well that's pretty much it. As I said, I thought it was fantastic overall and look forward to the final version as well as ANH and ROTJ. These will all hopefully be my go-to versions of Star Wars.
Michael
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Hello Harmy,
Unfortunately I wasn't able to watch the whole thing but, as I was skimming, I noticed a few things. However, these may be creative decisions and regardless of what you do with them this is my new favorite version of ESB.
- While not as blue as in the 2004 SE, you kept some blue in Hoth. It was decidedly more blue than the whiter GOUT. However, with the recent discovery of the vintage bootleg, this coloring you've put may in fact be more accurate than the GOUT.
- When they first land at the platform in Cloud City, the matte you've placed to hide the addition of CGI is just a tad bit too blue in my opinion; although, it looks better than the test clip you posted a bit ago. A little pink may do it good.
- Later, as they are leaving the platform with Lando, the matte in the back looks a bit too desaturated. A nice little saturation boost might be nice.
- On the whole, the movie looked darker than the GOUT; although, the GOUT looks faded to my eyes so I'm fine with this. Everything looked more realistic.
- During the asteroid chase, there seemed to be a lack of pinkness that was present in the GOUT (as shown in the little window). The color seemed a lot more like the 2004 edition. A once colored explosion looks almost white at 39:54.
When I get the chance, I'll watch the whole thing. Don't get me wrong, Harmy, this is a most excellent release. If you thought Adywan's was stunning, this is superb. As for the coloring, I don't mind either way. You do what you think is right.
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In working on my 16mm restoration of ESB, I have been surprised by the amount of blue in the Hoth scenes. Not nearly as much as in the 2004 disks, but more than I was expecting. Also, some Hoth scenes on the 16mm are bluer than others.
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Yeah, I believe that my current colouring (which is a bit different from the workprint) of the hoth scenes is pretty close to correct.
Thanks for the comments guys, I really appreciate it :-)
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mikeveli20 said:
To me, the Despecialized editions have always been more about removing the offensive and fake/out of place changes that were made in the special editions (Jabba, CG Cloud City entrance, Sarlaac beak, etc.) while preserving the technical improvements of the effects (ie. matte lines, see through spaceships, color suppression, etc.).
That's not really the point of the despecialized versions to me. If I had a high quality enough source or the ability to make one, I would prefer to replace every single change down to the last matte line, but because I don't, in some shots, where the changes aren't so noticeable, I simply prefer to settle for the SE rather than substantially lower picture quality. And then in some scenes, where the changes are really bad, I'll prefer to go with lower picture quality over the SE.
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Harmy said:
That's not really the point of the despecialized versions to me. If I had a high quality enough source or the ability to make one, I would prefer to replace every single change down to the last matte line, but because I don't, in some shots, where the changes aren't so noticeable, I simply prefer to settle for the SE rather than substantially lower picture quality. And then in some scenes, where the changes are really bad, I'll prefer to go with lower picture quality over the SE.
So in that case, why even do the Despecialized editions? With the great things that dark jedi is doing with the GOUT, his versions and yours will end up being practically the same.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of your previous PDE releases of the Star Wars trilogy and was just under the impression that the next versions would continue in the same manner of using elements from the V3/BluRay GOUT to fix some things that couldn't be done with great quality using the previous GOUT version.
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mikeveli20 said:
So in that case, why even do the Despecialized editions? With the great things that dark jedi is doing with the GOUT, his versions and yours will end up being practically the same.
Harmy's are true full-blown HD resolution -- they are completely different experiences.
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Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:
Harmy's are true full-blown HD resolution -- they are completely different experiences.
So Harmy's upcoming Despecialized versions will be the same as the upcoming Blu-Ray GOUT except for the fact that that Harmy's will be 1080p and the GOUT will be 720p? Just want to make sure I have the details correct.
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mikeveli20 said:
So in that case, why even do the Despecialized editions? With the great things that dark jedi is doing with the GOUT, his versions and yours will end up being practically the same.
They won't be practically the same. Well this is a reconstruction, as opposed to DJ's HD upconversion of the GOUT. They won't really be practically the same. Most of this is sourced from an HD broadcast of the 2004 version, and, as good as DJ's samples look, an upconversion of the GOUT to HD will simply not be as good quality consistently throughout as the 2004 sourced parts of this one. On the other hand this is a reconstruction, not being from one master, and containing some contrast errors inherent to the '04 SE. Anyway, from the sample, it seems like Harmy has improved in using the GOUT footage where necessary, so there won't be quality difference. In the case that you still want a nice hybrid, the original despecialized editions are still online and still very good.
Out of curiosity, Harmy, are you just going to put the same old audio tracks on this one: Hairy Hen, the GOUT DVD mix, Czech dub, and commentary, or are you going to add more like some of those seen in DJ's V3 Set?
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The Aluminum Falcon said:
They won't be practically the same. Well this is a reconstruction, as opposed to DJ's HD upconversion of the GOUT. They won't really be practically the same. Most of this is sourced from an HD broadcast of the 2004 version, and, as good as DJ's samples look, an upconversion of the GOUT to HD will simply not be as good quality consistently throughout as the 2004 sourced parts of this one. On the other hand this is a reconstruction, not being from one master, and containing some contrast errors inherent to the '04 SE. Anyway, from the sample, it seems like Harmy has improved in using the GOUT footage where necessary, so there won't be quality difference. In the case that you still want a nice hybrid, the original despecialized editions are still online and still very good.
Out of curiosity, Harmy, are you just going to put the same old audio tracks on this one: Hairy Hen, the GOUT DVD mix, Czech dub, and commentary, or are you going to add more like some of those seen in DJ's V3 Set?
Thanks for clarifying the details for me. I've downloaded all of the original Despecialized editions already and love them. I guess I could always edit the two scenes from the previous edition into the new one myself for personal viewing.
I'm really looking forward to seeing what can be done on ANH with the Mos Eisley entrance. I know the previous version of the GOUT was not good enough to use for these parts so hopefully the new GOUT will be.
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mikeveli20 said:
So Harmy's upcoming Despecialized versions will be the same as the upcoming Blu-Ray GOUT except for the fact that that Harmy's will be 1080p and the GOUT will be 720p? Just want to make sure I have the details correct.
One comes from a hi-def source, and one comes from a poor transfer of a laserdisc master. Yes, DJ is doing amazing things with the GOUT, but it will be quite easy to tell the two apart, especially on a moderately large screen.
The appeal of GOUT is that it is entirely OT material. The appeal of the despecialized versions is that the transfers are of the highest quality. Both are fantastic and not in any way duplicate efforts.
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You may also have noticed that this is no longer called PARTLY DESPECIALIZED EDITION v3.0, it is now DESPECIALIZED EDITION v1.0.
As for the soundmixes, no I won't be using any others, Just h_h's 5.1, 1993 2.0 and 2.0 CZ DUB.
It will be an AVCHD and it will sync with GOUT so anyone can easily remux these with any desired soundmix and I want to keep as much space on the DVD as possible for video.
As for Mos Eisley: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agv_jHkkzho
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Harmy that Mos Eisley shot is just amazing, excellent work. Will you be releasing these as soon as each one is complete or are you going to wait until the complete set is done?.
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I think one at a time because I know how I hate when DJ is waiting to release the whole trilogy. I hope he won't do it the same with the Blu project (which would also kinda solve his uploading problem :-) )
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Harmy said:
As for Mos Eisley: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agv_jHkkzho
Looks amazing! Especially the scene when they approach the cantina after talking to the stormtroopers. I know that scene in particular was pretty nasty on the GOUT. Great job Harmy.
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Harmy said:
I think one at a time because I know how I hate when DJ is waiting to release the whole trilogy. I hope he won't do it the same with the Blu project (which would also kinda solve his uploading problem :-) )
Releasing them once they are finished get my vote also.
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Harmy, does it mean that you are removing ALL (=100%) of the SE changes ?
If yes, would you mind doing an mkv version too ?
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Not 100% no, there will still be some little SE left. I don't think there will be an MKV version because that would mean a separate encode and upload andyou can play the m2ts file from the AVCHD on most players that play MKV.
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Hey Harmy,
Since these are Despecialized instead of your previous released Partly Despecialized, can you create a list or something of the differences? Or better yet, as you mentioned in a previous post about adding images to a "DONE" folder on your machine when you complete them, simply create an archived file of all the images you placed in the "DONE" folder and upload it for our viewing pleasure? :-)