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Harmy's THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK Despecialized Edition HD !!!MKV and AVCHD v2.0 NOW AVAILABLE!!! — Page 134

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Harmy said:

I’m actually thinking about releasing the next version with english tracks only and then including links for all the different dubs and instructions on how to add them.

Love this idea.

“You know, when you think about it, the Ewoks probably just crap over the sides of their tree-huts.”

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Mackey256 said:

Harmy said:

I’m actually thinking about releasing the next version with english tracks only and then including links for all the different dubs and instructions on how to add them.

Love this idea.

As do I.

Jedi Master Skywalker said:
Btw I have started a petition:
https://www.change.org/p/the-walt-disney-company-the-release-of-the-unaltered-cut-of-star-wars-in-4k/
Please sign
towne32 said:
They should build a whole website and forum based off a petition like this.

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Harmy said:

On the contrary, 4K would need 4 times the bandwidth to be of equal quality with 1080p, so upscaling 1080p to 4K would be pointless and would either result in pointlessly huge files, or reduced detail compared to the 1080p version due to compression.

As for the '95 Czech dubs (I actually recently discovered they were made for the 1995 THX VHS release, not the '97SE), I didn’t include them, because the translation is awful and I also always try to include the most original dubs possible. If anyone wants any alternate dubbing, they are, of course, welcome to mux them in themselves - the number of audio tracks is way too huge as it is, so I can’t include multiple dubs for each language on top of all that.

I’m actually thinking about releasing the next version with english tracks only and then including links for all the different dubs and instructions on how to add them.

yeah. that would be great.

to defend that dub: not sure why you think that the 92 has better translation. most of the lines are completely identical. but what matters more imho is casting and performance and in this aspect the second version is far superior…neverheless as i said it is the version which is without any doubt the most popular here

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Harmy said:

On the contrary, 4K would need 4 times the bandwidth to be of equal quality with 1080p, so upscaling 1080p to 4K would be pointless and would either result in pointlessly huge files, or reduced detail compared to the 1080p version due to compression.

As for the '95 Czech dubs (I actually recently discovered they were made for the 1995 THX VHS release, not the '97SE), I didn’t include them, because the translation is awful and I also always try to include the most original dubs possible. If anyone wants any alternate dubbing, they are, of course, welcome to mux them in themselves - the number of audio tracks is way too huge as it is, so I can’t include multiple dubs for each language on top of all that.

I’m actually thinking about releasing the next version with english tracks only and then including links for all the different dubs and instructions on how to add them.

Thanks Harmy for the reply! That makes sense. Either way im too excited for 2.5!

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Harmy said:

TRACK  1) 5.1   DTS-HD-MA   [English]        (1980 mix)

TRACK  2) 2.0   DTS-HD-MA   [English]        (1980 mix)

TRACK  3) 1.0   DTS-HD-MA   [English]        (1980 16mm mono mix)

I know there were three different 1980 mixes (the 35mm, the 70mm, and the 16mm), but I’m unclear here. Does this release include both the 35mm and the 70mm audio tracks?

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
GOOOOOOO DAWGS! SIC 'EM! WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF!

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No video preservation that I know of has the full 70mm audio, since no preservation has the 70mm video. Even then, we’d be talking mono tracks from in-theatre recordings or reconstructed from the 8mm digest. It’d be pretty ugly, although maybe possible if you wanted mismatched audio badly enough.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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CatBus said:

No video preservation that I know of has the full 70mm audio, since no preservation has the 70mm video. Even then, we’d be talking mono tracks from in-theatre recordings or reconstructed from the 8mm digest. It’d be pretty ugly, although maybe possible if you wanted mismatched audio badly enough.

Didn’t morgands1 preserve a tape recording of The Empire Strikes Back from a 70mm showing in 1980?

EDIT: A recording of the audio, not the video.

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
GOOOOOOO DAWGS! SIC 'EM! WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF!

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yaboykevin01 said:

CatBus said:

No video preservation that I know of has the full 70mm audio, since no preservation has the 70mm video. Even then, we’d be talking mono tracks from in-theatre recordings or reconstructed from the 8mm digest. It’d be pretty ugly, although maybe possible if you wanted mismatched audio badly enough.

Didn’t morgands1 preserve a tape recording of The Empire Strikes Back from a 70mm showing in 1980?

EDIT: A recording of the audio, not the video.

That’s what I meant by a mono in-theatre recording. Yes, it’s technically possible, but it’s a pretty odd request. The 35mm video was never shown with 70mm audio, so it wouldn’t be so much a preservation as a fan-edit. And the result wouldn’t sound very good either, so I suppose that’s why nobody’s jumped on it: i.e. it’s a custom version of Empire that’s not the least bit authentic and also sounds bad.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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CatBus said:

yaboykevin01 said:

CatBus said:

No video preservation that I know of has the full 70mm audio, since no preservation has the 70mm video. Even then, we’d be talking mono tracks from in-theatre recordings or reconstructed from the 8mm digest. It’d be pretty ugly, although maybe possible if you wanted mismatched audio badly enough.

Didn’t morgands1 preserve a tape recording of The Empire Strikes Back from a 70mm showing in 1980?

EDIT: A recording of the audio, not the video.

That’s what I meant by a mono in-theatre recording. Yes, it’s technically possible, but it’s a pretty odd request. The 35mm video was never shown with 70mm audio, so it wouldn’t be so much a preservation as a fan-edit. And the result wouldn’t sound very good either, so I suppose that’s why nobody’s jumped on it: i.e. it’s a custom version of Empire that’s not the least bit authentic and also sounds bad.

It sure would be great to find a 70mm print of Empire.

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
GOOOOOOO DAWGS! SIC 'EM! WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF!

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I muxed schorman’s synced original stereo LD transfer, which is GOUT NTSC synced, but am getting a section of the movie that is out of sync (needed a 250ms delay in VLC to look right to me). I haven’t nailed down exactly where it goes out of sync, but it’s out when Luke first arrives to Dagobah and stays out of sync until the reel change where Leia hurts her hand.

Just wondering if anyone knows why.

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Is it the one labeled 1980 or 1985? I’ll give it a look and see if I get the same issue.

Jedit: I’m seeing the same issue. I’ll look into fixing it.

If I had some gum, I’d chew a hole into the sun…

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schorman13 said:

Is it the one labeled 1980 or 1985? I’ll give it a look and see if I get the same issue.

Jedit: I’m seeing the same issue. I’ll look into fixing it.

Cool, thanks!

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If you want the original stereo mix, just select track 2 and watch the film. I assembled that version especially for this release of Despecialized, and it was edited together from schorman’s laserdisc audio archive, so what you’re looking for is already included.

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hairy_hen said:

If you want the original stereo mix, just select track 2 and watch the film. I assembled that version especially for this release of Despecialized, and it was edited together from schorman’s laserdisc audio archive, so what you’re looking for is already included.

That’s what I’ll listen to for now, but I like to have the LD audio as-is without the resampling and such when possible.

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What is the difference between the 5.1 1980 mix and the 2.0 1980 mix? Are there any content differences, or are they just mixed through more channels?

Also, does the 16mm mono track differ from those two in any way?

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
GOOOOOOO DAWGS! SIC 'EM! WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF!

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 (Edited)

yaboykevin01 said:

What is the difference between the 5.1 1980 mix and the 2.0 1980 mix? Are there any content differences, or are they just mixed through more channels?

Also, does the 16mm mono track differ from those two in any way?

IIRC, the 5.1 1980 mix is just the matrixed stereo upmixed to 5.1, with some of the LFE channel from other sources like the Blu-rays where they still seem decent. In other words, it’s a nice, tasteful upmix of the stereo mix. Unlike Star Wars, it is NOT an attempt to reproduce the original six-channel mix. And unlike Jedi, we know that there are content differences from the six-channel mix, but the six-channel mix didn’t apply to this cut of the film. So no content differences, just more channels, technically not theatrical but not actively revisionist in any way.

The 16mm track is way different. C-3PO gets some different lines (ones that later showed up in the Special Editions), and the mixing is occasionally a bit different too.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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CatBus said:

yaboykevin01 said:

What is the difference between the 5.1 1980 mix and the 2.0 1980 mix? Are there any content differences, or are they just mixed through more channels?

Also, does the 16mm mono track differ from those two in any way?

And unlike Jedi, we know that there are content differences from the six-channel mix, but the six-channel mix didn’t apply to this cut of the film.

Which cut of the film does the six-channel mix apply to? And where can I find a list of differences between the original stereo and the six-channel mix?

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
GOOOOOOO DAWGS! SIC 'EM! WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF!

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Ok, I fixed the issue with my version of the 1980 mix, if anyone wants a replacement, send me a pm. I found a couple other issues with it as well that have been fixed.

If I had some gum, I’d chew a hole into the sun…

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yaboykevin01 said:

CatBus said:

yaboykevin01 said:

What is the difference between the 5.1 1980 mix and the 2.0 1980 mix? Are there any content differences, or are they just mixed through more channels?

Also, does the 16mm mono track differ from those two in any way?

And unlike Jedi, we know that there are content differences from the six-channel mix, but the six-channel mix didn’t apply to this cut of the film.

Which cut of the film does the six-channel mix apply to? And where can I find a list of differences between the original stereo and the six-channel mix?

The six-channel mix goes with the 70mm cut of the film. The 35mm cut only had stereo (and mono in the 16mm reductions). I’m not sure there’s a complete catalog of audio changes, but if you search for differences between the 70mm version of Empire and the 35mm version of Empire, some audio differences are included in the mix. You can also watch Puggo’s 8mm digest to see and hear many of them.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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CatBus said:

yaboykevin01 said:

What is the difference between the 5.1 1980 mix and the 2.0 1980 mix? Are there any content differences, or are they just mixed through more channels?

Also, does the 16mm mono track differ from those two in any way?

IIRC, the 5.1 1980 mix is just the matrixed stereo upmixed to 5.1, with some of the LFE channel from other sources like the Blu-rays where they still seem decent. In other words, it’s a nice, tasteful upmix of the stereo mix. Unlike Star Wars, it is NOT an attempt to reproduce the original six-channel mix. And unlike Jedi, we know that there are content differences from the six-channel mix, but the six-channel mix didn’t apply to this cut of the film. So no content differences, just more channels, technically not theatrical but not actively revisionist in any way.

The 16mm track is way different. C-3PO gets some different lines (ones that later showed up in the Special Editions), and the mixing is occasionally a bit different too.

So in other words the 5.1 is just stereo? It does sound amazing but just interested as i thought it was a pure 5.1 source. Is there any interest in obtaining a true 5.1 source or using the 6.1 source from the blu rays etc?

  • Rev
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It is possible to insert 6.1 sound from the Blu Ray to the Despecialized edition, however the Blu Ray is the special edition cut with added shots not seen in the Despecialized edition. Therefore, the audio would have to be edited down to fit the Despecialized edition. Also, special edition audio that would be inappropriate for the Despecialized edition have to be removed and replaced with the Despecialized audio, like Luke’s scream as he falls down the Bespin reactor shaft in the SE cut (what I hear among the OT community, that is a pet peeve).

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alexp120 said:

Also, special edition audio that would be inappropriate for the Despecialized edition have to be removed and replaced with the Despecialized audio, like Luke’s scream as he falls down the Bespin reactor shaft in the SE cut (what I hear among the OT community, that is a pet peeve).

Luke’s scream is only present in the '97 special edition, as far as I know.

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Revolution said:

CatBus said:

yaboykevin01 said:

What is the difference between the 5.1 1980 mix and the 2.0 1980 mix? Are there any content differences, or are they just mixed through more channels?

Also, does the 16mm mono track differ from those two in any way?

IIRC, the 5.1 1980 mix is just the matrixed stereo upmixed to 5.1, with some of the LFE channel from other sources like the Blu-rays where they still seem decent. In other words, it’s a nice, tasteful upmix of the stereo mix. Unlike Star Wars, it is NOT an attempt to reproduce the original six-channel mix. And unlike Jedi, we know that there are content differences from the six-channel mix, but the six-channel mix didn’t apply to this cut of the film. So no content differences, just more channels, technically not theatrical but not actively revisionist in any way.

The 16mm track is way different. C-3PO gets some different lines (ones that later showed up in the Special Editions), and the mixing is occasionally a bit different too.

So in other words the 5.1 is just stereo? It does sound amazing but just interested as i thought it was a pure 5.1 source. Is there any interest in obtaining a true 5.1 source or using the 6.1 source from the blu rays etc?

  • Rev

No, it’s an upmix of matrixed stereo, not plain stereo, which gives you 4 distinct channels. Mix in the LFE and it’s true 4.1, upmixed to 5.1. The channels aren’t as distinct as a modern discrete mix but they’re distinct enough. However, it is just the stereo mix, i.e. sound effects and dialogue specific to the stereo mix. No content from the original mono or six-channel mixes.

The point of the 1980 six-channel mix is to be authentic yet multichannel. You could certainly get more channels from the Blu-ray, but you’d lose everything else–quality, authenticity, etc. 4.1/5.1 is about as good as you can expect in this regards when the cadillac best-of-breed audio in 1980 was 4.2. The only thing theoretically better would be a preservation of the 70mm version of the video with accompanying six-channel audio, but that’s unlikely–and frankly I don’t like the 70mm cut as well, so what we have now is still better, IMO.

alexp120 said:

It is possible to insert 6.1 sound from the Blu Ray to the Despecialized edition, however the Blu Ray is the special edition cut with added shots not seen in the Despecialized edition.

Also the audio quality on the Blu-rays is fairly tragic, so if you can find a nice, alternative lossless source (which we have), you’ll end up with considerably better results than anything using the Blu-rays as a significant source. You’re not going to improve anything by pulling in audio from an inferior source, regardless of the nominal channels.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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CatBus said:

Revolution said:

CatBus said:

yaboykevin01 said:

What is the difference between the 5.1 1980 mix and the 2.0 1980 mix? Are there any content differences, or are they just mixed through more channels?

Also, does the 16mm mono track differ from those two in any way?

IIRC, the 5.1 1980 mix is just the matrixed stereo upmixed to 5.1, with some of the LFE channel from other sources like the Blu-rays where they still seem decent. In other words, it’s a nice, tasteful upmix of the stereo mix. Unlike Star Wars, it is NOT an attempt to reproduce the original six-channel mix. And unlike Jedi, we know that there are content differences from the six-channel mix, but the six-channel mix didn’t apply to this cut of the film. So no content differences, just more channels, technically not theatrical but not actively revisionist in any way.

The 16mm track is way different. C-3PO gets some different lines (ones that later showed up in the Special Editions), and the mixing is occasionally a bit different too.

So in other words the 5.1 is just stereo? It does sound amazing but just interested as i thought it was a pure 5.1 source. Is there any interest in obtaining a true 5.1 source or using the 6.1 source from the blu rays etc?

  • Rev

No, it’s an upmix of matrixed stereo, not plain stereo, which gives you 4 distinct channels. Mix in the LFE and it’s true 4.1, upmixed to 5.1. The channels aren’t as distinct as a modern discrete mix but they’re distinct enough. However, it is just the stereo mix, i.e. sound effects and dialogue specific to the stereo mix. No content from the original mono or six-channel mixes.

The point of the 1980 six-channel mix is to be authentic yet multichannel. You could certainly get more channels from the Blu-ray, but you’d lose everything else–quality, authenticity, etc. 4.1/5.1 is about as good as you can expect in this regards when the cadillac best-of-breed audio in 1980 was 4.2. The only thing theoretically better would be a preservation of the 70mm version of the video with accompanying six-channel audio, but that’s unlikely–and frankly I don’t like the 70mm cut as well, so what we have now is still better, IMO.

alexp120 said:

It is possible to insert 6.1 sound from the Blu Ray to the Despecialized edition, however the Blu Ray is the special edition cut with added shots not seen in the Despecialized edition.

Also the audio quality on the Blu-rays is fairly tragic, so if you can find a nice, alternative lossless source (which we have), you’ll end up with considerably better results than anything using the Blu-rays as a significant source. You’re not going to improve anything by pulling in audio from an inferior source, regardless of the nominal channels.

Excuse me, but how do I convert the raw .wav files of the 1993 mixes from schorman’s collection to DTS-HD Master Audio?

I am planning on doing a separate MKA with lossless 1993 mixes since Harmy only added the 1993 mixes in lossy Dolby Digital format.

I know the 1993 mixes aren’t theatrical mixes but I am partial to them since they were the most polished pre-1997 mixes IMO and are my favorite.

And I’ve loved every pixel of it.
(Clarissa Darling, Clarissa Explains It All)

You’re so right.
(Kylo Ren, Star Wars: The Force Awakens)