Harmy said: Can anyone help me get the 1997 LD 5.1 audio for Jedi?
Was the 5.1 an upmix of the theatrical stereo mix merged with 2004 SE 5.1 then?
Yeah, I said that somewhere in the thread before, but from what I hear the 2004 soundmix of Jedi was quite ok, yet I'd still like to make another mix using the superior 1997 mix and I was also thinking about making a 1997 SE reconstruction like Adywan did for his TESB AVCHD.
Harmy said:
I said that somewhere in the thread before
Sorry! It must have slipped my mind.
Harmy said: I was also thinking about making a 1997 SE reconstruction like Adywan did for his TESB AVCHD.
That would be a good idea. :-)
Oh, by the way, your ROTJ AVCHD is now playing at a perfect volume level, Harmy. :) I don't know how or why removing that loud track helped, but there are no issues with it now. Thanks again for all of your help!
The 2004 mixes of Empire and Jedi sound pretty good most of the time. They are identical to the 1997 versions aside from specific changes such as Boba Fett's voice and some added sounds. The main problem with them is that the surround effects are consistently too loud compared to the rest of the mix. I don't know for sure, but I suspect that this may be have to do with the fact that films are mixed with the surrounds calibrated at -3db relative to the mains, since theatres use an array of rear speakers, while home video versions have all channels calibrated to the same level, requiring adjustment of the source to sound the way they should. It's possible that they may have forgotten to turn down the rear channels, which might account for the distractingly loud surround effects.
However, it is also possible that there was no technical error, and that the overly loud surrounds are simply an intentional part of the mix. If so, it would show a disturbing lack of good creative sense; but since the SE's as a whole are an exercise in poor taste and bad judgement, that might not be that much of a surprise.
By contrast, listening to the 1993 mixes through Prologic II yields rear channel effects that come out at just the right level.
I didn't have a chance to listen to the 5.1 in Jedi on a 5.1 setup so if anyone has, I'd like some feedback on that (I'm not sure how well the 5.1 upmix of the pliced in 2.0 worked out).
Also, the 97 SE reconstruction is just an idea for the possible future :-) The idea there is that with KGAr footage it would be possible to make it almost seamless as, unlike the GOUT, the anamorphic video wouldn't stand out in the HD footage. I'm definitely not doing it unless I get the 97 5.1 mix (does anyone know where I could get that?).
I'm almost done with Empire. I'm doing it the same way as the others - adjusting Adywan's AVCHD to fit to the GOUT sound, only for Empire of course using Ady's reconstruction for the original footage. There were some problems as it seems that some original shots, which were folowed by an SE addition were trimmed by a few frames (eg. the Wampa's hand falling on the ground when Luke cuts it of, or the shot from Falcon's cockpit before Vader's shuttle leaving Bespin is added). If Ady reads this I'd like to ask how he dealt with these in his reconstruction - in other words: will the reconstruction 5.1 mix fit GOUT and consequently my TESB:PDE?
Oh, and thanks to everyone for the feedback on Jedi, I'm glad it's mostly positive :-)
Btw, any feedback on SW v2.1?
Harmy -- your SW PDE looks great! I love it, but I'm kinda sad that the extra CGI dewbacks and extra CGI outside Mos Eisley is still there. They're the two most obvious SE elements in there, and it's the only thing that keeps this from being the definitive preservation of the theatrical version.
If you do another version, would it be possible to replace those scenes with the GOUT versions? Either way, thanks so much for your hard work. It's beautiful work.
Thanks, I'm glad you like it.
As to the CGI, it was quite a painful decision to leave some of it in but those shots are amongst the worst looking (image quality vice) in GOUT.
For the Dewback scene with the Stormies I had to leave a bit of the SG shot to make it fit the original sound. The only other options would have been to either slow down the camera pan, which would create an annoying jitter or put in the shot from GOUT, which is horrid and containes the infamous 4 eyed stormtrooper:
And this shot just looks plain awful in GOUT (and it only gets worse in motion, especially when blown up to 1080p and shown on a big HDTV and believe me, I tried...):
So there you go, I'm not 100% happy with leaving the SE shots in but it seemed like the lesser evil.
TESB PDE v2.0 is finished, I'm encoding now and if everything goes fine, I'll start uploading tmrw.
There was a problem with the encode again. The picture keeps falling apart in every player I've tried but the artifacts are not hardcoded, just the players can't cope with the video.
Here are the technical specs as shown in MPC:
Video
ID : 4113 (0x1011)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.0
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 3 frames
Duration : 2h 5mn
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 7 574 Kbps
Maximum bit rate : 24.0 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.152
Stream size : 6.67 GiB (91%)
Writing library : x264 core 77 r1281M 3836218
Encoding settings : cabac=1 / ref=3 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x12 / me=dia / subme=2 / psy=1 / psy_rd=0.0:0.0 / mixed_ref=0 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=0 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / chroma_qp_offset=0 / threads=3 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / mbaff=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=0 / b_adapt=1 / b_bias=0 / direct=1 / wpredb=1 / keyint=24 / keyint_min=4 / scenecut=40 / rc_lookahead=24 / rc=cbr / mbtree=0 / bitrate=7574 / ratetol=1.0 / qcomp=0.50 / qpmin=10 / qpmax=51 / qpstep=4 / vbv_maxrate=24000 / vbv_bufsize=25000 / ip_ratio=1.10 / pb_ratio=1.10 / aq=1:1.00
Could someone suggest some different setting or something?
I used the same method as with the succesfull encode of Jedi = convert the 1080p25 mpeg to 1080p23.976 in TS Muxer and then make AVCHD in multiAVCHD v3.0.
At the moment I'm reencoding with multiAVCHD v3.0 @25fps from the orig. 1080p25 mpg and will then convert that to 23,976 in TS Muxer.
The settings look all right to me. Have you tried burning the AVCHD to disc and seeing if it works in a stand-alone player?
I didn't, even though it quite possibly would play, but that won't help me as I'll be playing these through a computer, that's why I was originally making these mkv. I'm basically making AVCHDs just for you guys.
Here's a video of the changes in TESB v2.0:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SquVsUORlTo
The encode is finished and I must say I'm quite happy with it. Thanks to using Ady's reconstruction instead of GOUT, the difference between HD and SD isn't as obvious as in the other two. I think that to someone who wouldn't know about the changes it would be practically unnoticable (not invisible, but if they were following the story and not focusing on picture quality, they simply wouldn't notice).
I tweaked the colours of the reconstruction footage in two places: Deblued the Wampa cave shots to fit with the AVCHD colours and returned the pinkish/orange tint to the Cloud city mate after Luke leaves Dagobah, I know it doesn't make sense in the context of the story but it was like that in both the 1980 original and 1997 SE and I simply like it that way.
Also I found out that Ady's reconstruction 5.1 mix syncs perfectly just as I demuxed it from the DVD. So there will be Ady's 5.1, GOUT 2.0 and Czech 2.0.
I'm going away for a few days, so I won't be able to start uploading until Monday.
So, has anyone finished downloading SW v2.1?
OK, I just started uploading TESB PDE v2.0.
Also, there were some requests for posting DVDs but it would really be quite complicated and expensive from the Czech Republic, so is there anyone who would be willing to send out copies of my edits to those who can't download them in the UK or USA?
RETURN OF THE JEDI - PARTLY DESPECIALIZED EDITION REVIEW
Following the template of Adywan's great work, Harmy's proposals of de-specializing the Star Wars movies using the best elements from both theatrical and SE versions really interested me. From the start he never said he never wanted to take credit for anything Adywan had done, but only use what he had done for inspiration and use as a template for the basis of his edit.
I've always been annoyed with the 2004 special edition of ROTJ, with the various colour problems throughout and the screwing up of the lightsaber colours. ROTJ for me, when I was growing up, was a very special movie to me, much more than the Empire Strikes Back but on par with the original Star Wars. So when ROTJ finally came on DVD format and it wasn't the version I remembered, I felt like my favourite movie had been ruined.
For years I have desperately been searching for fanedits of ROTJ that might address the problems of the 2004 SE but most were edits concentrating on removing the Ewoks or various things like that. The only version that I could obtain closest to my childhood memory was the GOUT, which many Star Wars fans will know, isn't exactly the best version to watch either. So I was left with very few options and since discovering Adywan's work and realising he wasn't anywhere near a ROTJ:Revisited, I didn't want to resort to watching a VHS tape or laserdisc player at the time to be able to watch the version I remembered. So I tried to fix some of the problems that annoyed me by editing it myself, however I didn't have the software or the hardware capabilities to edit the movie or get the best quality results, and so for ages I scrapped the project and just didn't watch ROTJ for years.
After Adywan's work on recreating the ESB theatrical version using the foundation of the 2004 SE with GOUT effects re-inserted, it really opened the door up for Harmy. He wanted to bring a similar kind of edit but in HD. When he started with ANH I was interested but when I heard he was doing ROTJ it became like an obsession.
What's amazing about Harmy's de-specializing of ROTJ is that he has done it with very limited resources in terms of putting it all together. Unlike ANH and ESB which he stated he would be using Adywan's AVCHD versions as a template, with ROTJ he had to do everything from scratch - colour correcting and all. I was a bit sceptical at first, with someone attempting to colour correct a whole movie with limited resources but when I saw his clips and screenshots I quickly changed my mind.
Upon inspection of the movie, there is an obvious sound level issue which is very easily fixed with his audio fix that he has made recently available. This fix fully restored for me the sound to more appropriate levels.
What really surprised me about this edit, is the crisp detail and colours. Most HD versions I have seen of ROTJ have issues with video artefacts where the render and export of the video has been done poorly. This looks very clean and the colours look very, very close to the theatrical version. In fact, where the GOUT parts had been used, I could barely even tell the difference unless I really looked for it. Brilliantly blended together. Amongst these good parts, the brightness and contrast seems to have been addressed, which I always felt looked too dark in the 2004 SE, I can now see things that I couldn't even see before. For example, when Vader brings Luke to the Emperor, I can actually see more detail in the throne room, which I couldn't see before. But my favourite parts of all is the fixed lightsabers and Lapti Nek dance in Jabba's palace. The 2004 SE lightsabers and Lapti Nek scene in the SE always bugged the hell out of me. A pink lightsaber for Vader? and a cartoony CGI dance scene insertion at Jabba's place WTF!? it just does not look right to me at all. But rest assured, Vader's lightsaber now has a nice vibrant red and a white core, which before was a pink blended mess with the 2004 SE and the original Lapti Nek scene has been re-inserted. Harmy has also removed Hayden's ghost from the ending and replaced it with the original Anakin Skywalker ghost, which is another bonus, yay!
The only minor problem I noticed in Harmy's edit, is that in some frames there is a noticeable difference in brightness compared to some of the prior frames. I noticed this mostly in one of the dark scenes where Luke is fighting Vader near the stairs in the throne room. I barely noticed it on my setup but for some people it might be more noticeable, I don't know. Just wanted to mention it in case Harmy wants to make a fix for it.
Overall I can now definitely say that this edit sits in my collection as my favourite version of ROTJ.
Thank you Harmy.
Thanks, I'm really glad you liked it :-)
Before, whenever I wanted to watch STAR WARS, I had to fight an internal battle between great picture quality (HD) and great version (GOUT). In order to avoid this, I wanted to make a version that I'd prefer to watch over all the other versions out there, until (if ever) the OOT comes out on Blu-Ray, a version with a great over-all picture quality and at the same time, one as close to the original version as possible. But I never got round to doing it, (I once attempted Empire but the qulity of the cut was so poor, that it didn't help my dilema at all) until Adywan's reconstruction came out and gave me the prod I needed to get cracking. So here it is. Admitedly, there are some minor flaws, but they are flaws I can live with, and I am very happy that my vision is shared and enjoyed by others as well. :-)
Harmy, I know you worked from some PAL sources. Do your edits have the PAL audio speedup?
You know of the rebellion against the Empire?
Erikstormtrooper said:
Harmy, I know you worked from some PAL sources. Do your edits have the PAL audio speedup?
No; the speed up was accounted for on conversion to 23.976. The audio sounds fine on Harmy's edits.
No, I worked from some PAL sources (PAL GOUT and PAL HDTV rip of Jedi) but then converted both the video and the audio to 23.976 fps.
Oh, I see Chewtobacca beat me to it :-)
Cool. I'll have to check out ROTJ.
You know of the rebellion against the Empire?
TESB (and thus the whole STAR WARS TRILOGY - PARTLY DESPECIALIZED EDITION) is now available, PM me if you're interested.